Why are facials degrading?

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-04-1999
Why are facials degrading?
113
Sun, 08-06-2006 - 8:28pm
I have seen many posts that describe facials as degrading to a woman. Why is that? I've always asked a partner if I could cum on her body before I did it, and wouldn't do it without permission. What is it, though, that makes a facial particularly objectionable? I don't see where it's any more degrading than cumming in her mouth, or on her breasts, etc.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 11-26-2004
Fri, 08-11-2006 - 3:19pm

Rice, I have a question that I think you would be well equipped to anwer: It's been a while since I've watched mainstream porn, but as I understand it now, female ejaculation is a new and upcoming event. I'm interested to know, if during the female ejaculation scenes, are women ejaculating on men's faces? I do understand also(from what I've read) that the female ejaculation in porn is not truly female ejaculation but a synthetic substitutes which may change the dynamics a bit.

I do not think that an aim gone awry is the same thing as specifically targeting the face. If I remember from porn, there was no doubt in my mind that it was aimed for the face; these women took it in the eyes, cheeks, and up the nose, etc. Just some of the sites that pop up on the computer depict a woman with wads of ejaculate across her whole face, so I'm not sure that it's about aiming for the mouth.

It's a tricky thing. Many women feel that women are specifically degraded in a lot of porn by men, so they associate a highly offensive "act" (even though it is performed within a loving relationship), as degrading or him wanting to degrade her (even if it's on a subconscious level). I'm not saying that it's fact, just that this is how many women make the connection.

It's not the same as taking it in the mouth, because with that act, there is at least some legitimate "reason" for the act itself -- whereas with a facial there really is not.... If a man misses while trying to aim for the mouth or from shooting too far, or whatever, I doubt there'd be a woman alive who would feel degraded....




Edited 8/11/2006 4:02 pm ET by rain_dancer_iam
Imagination is more important than knowledge." (Albert Einstein )
Avatar for katmandoo2001
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Fri, 08-11-2006 - 4:52pm
The visual that popped into my mind at your goggles suggestion made me laugh out loud. Thanks, Sugar. That was funny.
iVillage Member
Registered: 02-26-2001
Fri, 08-11-2006 - 8:56pm

That's true, and I'm assuming that neither can you. Still, I think that I can sometimes guess what a director's intent was in a scene, based upon the actions of the actors. If, in a sex scene in a porn video, the man and the woman stop what they're doing and then reposition themselves so that she has her mouth open and her tongue out just inches from the end of his penis and he, or she, begins stroking his penis vigorously, then I'm pretty sure that the director said something to them like "OK, now I want to see you cum in her mouth." Based upon what I've seen in the porn videos I've watched, and not, unfortunately, from personal experience, it appears that it's a lot easier said than done.

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-26-2001
Fri, 08-11-2006 - 9:36pm

Aside from a few 'teaser' clips, I've only seen one video of a woman ejaculating, and in that case the man was stimulating her G-spot with the 'come hither' hand technique while she stimulated her clit with a small vibrator. I'm pretty sure that it was real, although, for all I could tell, she actually could have been urinating. There's no way to tell in a video, although, from what I've read, it's pretty clear that it's not urine when it happens in real life, if it indeed does happen. I've seen a few videos of women urinating (often times on a man, but that's not degrading at all, is it?) and the only differences that I could see from the woman in the FE video were their facial expression and body language.

I also have seen the videos like the ones you mentioned where it is obvious that the men are trying to ejaculate on the woman's face and, in some cases, the woman ends up with her face covered in cum. I have to agree that those kinds of scenes do appear to have the intent of degrading the woman and probably appeal only to guys who would see such an act as a power trip, or some kind of revenge for the sexual humiliations that a lot of guys feel that they experience at the hands of women. Personally, I find it disgusting and not erotic in any way.

As I said in my other post, in the overwhelming majority of videos that I've seen, when a man's ejaculate lands on a woman's face it was either a total accident (like the famous shower scene in 'Debbie Does Dallas') or the result of him aiming for her mouth and there being a bit of 'collateral damage'. If, as I pointed out in my post to Katmandoo, the woman places her open mouth with her tongue out near the end of his penis, then he's very likely aiming for her mouth, even if most of it lands on her cheeks, chin, neck, chest, hair, the drapes, etc. To me, nothing is more erotic than a sexually arouse woman with cum dripping out her mouth and off her chin. To be honest, I don't really know why. Maybe it's just a visual representation of the feeling of acceptance that a man gets when a woman lets him cum in her mouth. Maybe it's just an image of a woman totally giving herself over the sex. Anyway, I always wanted to do it, at least once, but never had the chance. I'm sure it would have been one of those 'do it once just so I can see what it's like' experiences, since I can't see how it could have possibly felt as nice as the physical sensation that comes from ejaculating inside a woman's mouth.

Actually, I think I must be watching very different porn than you ladies. Except for the couple of 'cum facial' scenes I mentioned, I don't remember seeing any scenes where women were degraded, or cussed, or treated badly in any way. It always seemed to me like they were having enthusiastic, mutually enjoyable sex. I also haven't seen all the women with the large, fake breasts that women who post about porn complain so much about. Usually, the women in the porn videos and pictorials that I've seen appear to have normal to small-sized breasts (A and B cups, with the occasional C cup). About the most fake thing I've seen in the porn that I've looked at was the women's enthusiasm for sex. Maybe you ladies just aren't watching the right kind of porn, LOL.

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-26-2004
Fri, 08-11-2006 - 10:24pm

Rice, thank you for your candidness.....

As far as the porn flicks that I have seen: They consisted mostly of mainstream. Once porn went video (yes, we had to actually go to the theatres in the old days before that), we did see some freaky stuff. But as far as mainstream, yes, I think you are correct, I do not remember hearing any derogatory terminology.

As far as breasts, yes they were fake (not all of course, and I'm going back a ways). I do remember seeing the actual scar underneath the breast (that was where the incision was made in those days to insert the implant, unlike today around the areola). Women notice those things, I guess. ;-)

In any event, I do remember viewing scenes that I felt were degrading. In one example, there was a woman on her back, on a table surrounded by a group of men who were masturbating over her.....and the grand finale is them ejaculating all over her -- everywhere...(and this was in mainstream porn). Yes, it was erotic, but degrading none-the-less....something that I cannot explain either.

"....or some kind of revenge for the sexual humiliations that a lot of guys feel that they experience at the hands of women."

....and that's a scary concept.....




Edited 8/12/2006 11:20 am ET by rain_dancer_iam
Imagination is more important than knowledge." (Albert Einstein )
iVillage Member
Registered: 10-18-2001
Sat, 08-12-2006 - 6:04am

>>I do remember seeing the actual scar underneath the breast (that was where the incision was made in those days to insert the implant, unlike today around the areola)<<

I may be wrong, but it was my understanding that the scar around the areola was from moving the nipple so that it was centered correctly on the breast after the enlargement, not as point of entry for the implant. I have seen women with implants with both scars.

Slightly aside, and aimed as a comment to everyone that was talking about humilation... it seems that there are lots of posters that aren't sure why there is so much humiliating porn available. Perhaps the demographic of the people that post to iVillage don't ever see that side of the male population? There are a LOT of men out there that thoroughly enjoy seeing women humilated during sex - often under the mistaken impression that that's how sex and being a man should work. There is a huge market for that sort of porn and there are a lot of men that it appeals to. The thin veneer of civilisation and culture and equal rights for the sexes.....

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-26-2004
Sat, 08-12-2006 - 11:29am

"I may be wrong, but it was my understanding that the scar around the areola was from moving the nipple so that it was centered correctly on the breast after the enlargement, not as point of entry for the implant. I have seen women with implants with both scars."

Yes, that may be....but that may depend on whether it's an extensive enlargemen or whether it's a lift (saggy breasts). I think that the most common breast enlargements though, can be had through the areola alone (and it is the most inconsipcous). Incidentally, they can also insert them through the belly button and under the arm as well.

"There are a LOT of men out there that thoroughly enjoy seeing women humilated during sex - often under the mistaken impression that that's how sex and being a man should work."

What are some theories on where that impression from?

"There is a huge market for that sort of porn and there are a lot of men that it appeals to. The thin veneer of civilisation and culture and equal rights for the sexes....."

I'm not sure I'm understanding what it is that you are asserting? Can you reword it or expound?

Imagination is more important than knowledge." (Albert Einstein )
iVillage Member
Registered: 11-04-1999
Sat, 08-12-2006 - 4:23pm
I never said that nothing is wrong with it. If you reread my original post, you will see that I don't cum on a woman's body without her permission. I was just curious about why facials are degrading to a lot of women. I have never actually performed a facial.
iVillage Member
Registered: 10-18-2001
Sat, 08-12-2006 - 7:16pm

>>What are some theories on where that impression from?<<

Personal experience mostly. Consequently the accuracy of my observations is questionable. I've found myself in a line of work where I have often observed individuals in lower socioeconomic groups socialising and I hear discussions about the latest exploits - put simply I was a barman in some pretty rough places for many years.

Basically there are a lot of men that treat women badly. I've heard about (and seen) some pretty humiliating sexual treatment of women. I just don't think that most of the posters here on iVillage have a good appreciation for how many men and relationships involve humiliation and ill treatment of women.

Everything from violence to sexual activities (like facials and slapping that we on the boards consider to be offensive and humiliating) through to half a dozen 40yo men having group sex with a drunk 16yo (16yo is age of consent in this country). I was shocked at first by the lack of respect for women that many of these men had. You just don't see that clearly and obvious from men in higher-up socio-economic groups.

I just don't think that many women here on the boards who probably come from a more "affluent" background have really seen what relationships and sex is like for a large proportion of the population.
We talk about it all the time but there are many many women that are having to live it.

Avatar for gigi_1000
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Sat, 08-12-2006 - 7:43pm
Kat, how about a visual of the woman wearing a welding mask.

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