Why are facials degrading?

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-04-1999
Why are facials degrading?
113
Sun, 08-06-2006 - 8:28pm
I have seen many posts that describe facials as degrading to a woman. Why is that? I've always asked a partner if I could cum on her body before I did it, and wouldn't do it without permission. What is it, though, that makes a facial particularly objectionable? I don't see where it's any more degrading than cumming in her mouth, or on her breasts, etc.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 11-26-2004
Fri, 08-25-2006 - 5:53am

"If a girl was uncomfortable with what was happening, all she had to do was say "No", or "Stop", or "Don't" and most guys would understand and would respect her wishes."

Again, you know this how? You sound naive about this actually, Rice. Most guys wouldn't stop after the first "No," "Stop" or "Don't." Guys will just keep trying, at least a few more times. Why do you think that so many women break? Most likely because they really DO want to have sex. Do you think if they didn't want to have sex, that it would ever happen? Wouldn't you say that they (men) believed that they WERE "respecting her wishes (she wants sex)?" Which was why they kept trying to make her "succumb" to her natural desires? It felt almost like a "con" job to some women. ;-)

Again, if she was taught that having sex would be a "disrespectful" act (or was reared to feel guilty about it as Kat mentioned), then she did want YOU to feel guilty as well for even attempting it. It was most likely more of a statement of disbelief; as though you had some nerve to even attempt it (you were acting out of selfishness). If you look back, that phrase was probably most often uttered the further back you go in history. The more women were expected to be "virginal" or remain virtuous until marriage, the more and longer within a relationship this line was probably used. In my time, it was most commonly used when a guy made attempts on a first date or very early on. Today, I would doubt that a high amount of women utter those words and frequently. ;-)

If you look at where we are at today Rice, you can see that MOST teenagers are having sex by the age of 17(and younger) and some even have multiple partners. If WOMEN were asexual, do you really think that would be the case? Come on Rice, you had teenagers, and you were one once yourself. They WANT and DESIRE to have SEX; it's biology. Maybe had you had daughters, your outlook would have changed. Women are very sexual Rice....very sexual. We have just had to always be the gatekeepers....the truly "stronger" sex perhaps? ;-)

Edited 8/25/2006 6:39 am ET by rain_dancer_iam




Edited 8/25/2006 5:19 pm ET by rain_dancer_iam
Imagination is more important than knowledge." (Albert Einstein )
iVillage Member
Registered: 11-26-2004
Fri, 08-25-2006 - 6:11am

"I based my assumptions not just on my experiences, but on that of my friends, as well as my readings on the subject, just as everyone here does. I don't see how my extrapolations are any more invalid than those by women who claim that 'Most women love and enjoy sex' just because they do."

Again Rice, whenever that statement is made, it's made under the assumption that the woman was "reared" to embrace her sexuality fully--without brainwashing, and without social constraints. Viagra studies for women have proven that women's libido's are tightly tied to their emotions. What you seem to be missing is the caveat that Most women love and are "capable" of enjoying sex....as long as "a" "b" and "c" are in place.

"BTW, the second most common complaint that I've heard from my friends, after "She's never in the mood." has been "I wish she would touch me like I touch her", or words to that effect. Maybe I didn't understand what they were talking about."

And if you were listening to the womens' side, you'd hear things like "He only pays attention to me when he wants sex." and "I wish he would kiss me the way he used to or treated me the way he used to."

I never said that your experiences did not happen, Rice, what I was trying to expalin was that MOST women are not "asexual" (at least I haven't heard science claim as much); but even in those cases where it may seem so, it's most likely due to explicable external factors. MOST of the women that I know who stopped wanting to have sex with their husbands or SOs were masturbating regularly. It wasn't their libidos that were the issue....they were not asexual....it just appeared that way on the surface.




Edited 8/25/2006 6:40 pm ET by rain_dancer_iam
Imagination is more important than knowledge." (Albert Einstein )
Avatar for katmandoo2001
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Fri, 08-25-2006 - 10:28am
Yes, for many women, masturbation provides the ONLY orgasms they will experience. Too many men don't know, much less want to learn, how to please a woman because they believe sex revolves around their penises.
iVillage Member
Registered: 02-26-2001
Fri, 08-25-2006 - 7:40pm

"even in those cases where it may seem so, it's most likely due to explicable external factors."

Why ask why? It is what it is.

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-26-2001
Fri, 08-25-2006 - 7:54pm

"They WANT and DESIRE to have SEX; it's biology."

Well, yeah, that's true for teenaged BOYS, they've got testosterone practically coming out of their ears, LOL. I don't see that it's anywhere like that for teenaged girls, though. Except for the two I mentioned in my previous post, the only girls I knew in high school who were giving it up were the ones who were in long-term relationships and planned on getting married right after graduation. Based upon what my friends were telling me, and confirmed by several girls, most of the girls main objective was to put off having sex for as long as possible, and that seemed to include thru college as well. If they had the same sexual desires as the boys, then they did a damn good job of suppressing and/or hiding them!

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-26-2004
Fri, 08-25-2006 - 9:10pm

Exactly! We're finally getting somewhere; they were most likely suppressing it, whether consciously or subconsciously. But the question remains, were boys more APT to ACT on it because of how they were "reared" (no social constraints and actual pats on the behind "to go and have fun") as opposed to how girls were "reared" (the complete opposite)? In other words, if we switched things around and girls were given the pats on the behinds to go and have fun, would the results still be the same? Of course, in order for that to be an accurate comparison, we would have to make it where the boys are the ones who get pregnant....because no matter what, it's something that will always be on a girl's mind. I can only speak for myself, and I can tell you that the answer would probably shock you Rice. tee hee

With that aside... ;-) it looks as though we're back to our previous convo about testostone and how it effects men and women differently (or does it?). If you go the-clitoris.com, somewhere in one of the titles it mentions that women may have less testosterone than men on average, but their bodies are more sensitive to the amounts in which they do possess. I can only speak for myself, but I was ALWAYS thinking about sex when I was a teenager....but that doesn't mean that my "rational" mind didn't prevail; just as it did most likely for those women of that time (only having sex if they believed they were going to marry the man, and/or postponing it throughout college). It was most likely just a case of the "captain" (the big head) trying to steer the "man in the boat" (the little head) away from the dangerous rapids.

I await more extensive studies on women's sexuality.....I think it's quite complex....and we're just touching the surface....




Edited 8/25/2006 9:30 pm ET by rain_dancer_iam
Imagination is more important than knowledge." (Albert Einstein )
iVillage Member
Registered: 11-26-2004
Fri, 08-25-2006 - 9:27pm
Well...it all comes down to cause and effect, I guess. Remove the cause, and you will see a different effect. Take away the external influential factors, and you will see that it really isn't "what it is" at all.... ;-)
Imagination is more important than knowledge." (Albert Einstein )
iVillage Member
Registered: 02-26-2001
Fri, 08-25-2006 - 9:37pm
I guess I get to make the 100th post of the thread on facials, most of which have nothing to do with facials. I'm afraid I'm going to have to go to my grave not being able to believe that women, especially young women, have sexual feelings and desires. I guess I'm a lost cause. Sorry.
iVillage Member
Registered: 11-26-2004
Fri, 08-25-2006 - 9:49pm

Just doing a quick search, Rice, I found this article which lays out how testosterone/estrogen treatment in women who have had both ovaries removed (which reduces the amount of testosterone produced to about half the norm and therefore affects libido). It may not be much, but by injecting a combo of estrogen/testosterone it resulted in a satisfying sex life. From what I gathered from the article, it seems that the amount required to restore her sex drive was not excessive (as there were no side effects like facial hair or increased acne). It would seem then, that women may very well be highly sensitve to small amounts of testosterone.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/11/041123115913.htm




Edited 8/25/2006 10:04 pm ET by rain_dancer_iam
Imagination is more important than knowledge." (Albert Einstein )
iVillage Member
Registered: 11-26-2004
Fri, 08-25-2006 - 9:53pm

Aw, Rice, we still have about 40 good years to change your mind (that is if science doesn't eventually do it for you). ;-)

Imagination is more important than knowledge." (Albert Einstein )

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