Am I allowed to contact him?

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-24-2003
Am I allowed to contact him?
22
Thu, 04-19-2007 - 4:44am
I know this is a common theme but sometimes the background is a little different. I'll try not to be too long winded but, a few weeks ago I posted that I met a guy in unusual circumstances (in that he could not make any kind of invitation to me) and that I afterwards wrote to him, thanked him for the way he had helped me at the time and actually invited him for a coffee.
He replied nearly 3 weeks later, apologising for his delay and saying he'd been away at Easter with his brother and had a lot to do at work and is also moving house etc. He said he'd love to meet up for a coffee and would also like very much to improve his English, which is not his native language but which he needs for professional purposes.
I sent back an email (I did not have his phone number at that time) agreeing and asking him to ring my cellphone since he said on his email, one reason for his slow reply was that he rarely logs in.
He'd obviously had been waiting for my email though because a few days later he rang me, very keen to meet and said he'd meet me in the evening. The next day he rang in the morning; said he'd been put on night shift and had to meet me in the day and was that ok if we met for a coffee in the day instead before he went to work?
I agreed and we met, and spent 2 hours chatting about general stuff such as work, sport, music and his home country. I did not bring any material with me since I was assessing his level and it was not a formal lesson as such.
He said he'd like to continue with the lessons and maybe next time I could cook him an Italian meal which I once told him I was good at. He said in that case he'd make the starters, and bring a folk instrument which has has started to learn and we'd talk all the time in English.
I thought this seemed to be mixing business with pleasure and anyway, we both know that although he does want to learn English and that was purportedly the reason for the meet, we met because obviously there is some liking between us.
There are problems (in my mind at least) though:
1. I was very nervous during our meeting. This for a number of reasons not least because I am always nervous if I meet a man I am attracted to for the first time informally.
2. I have several tattoos. Men either like them or not and he did not. Moreover, one is of a snake and he said he hated snakes and why did I have them done? I said I was young and stupid, and he laughed and gallantly said 'what? 5 years ago?'
3. That leads me to problem 3 which is my AGE. I am MUCH older than him but like all men I meet, knows that I am older but not that old. Because of the circumstances in which I met him it is easy for him (and I think it will because now he is curious) to look up my age in the records where he works. I know I do look extremely young and fit and that leads to problem 4.
4. I do bodyfitness and intend to make my competition debut here in Europe next year. This is the reason I moved at great expense to this town because there is a famous Figure trainer here who I know have a training contract with. He, like many people, disapproves of this sport because of the drugs element (which is another topic). I told him that not all people take substances and I do not at the moment as a good bodybuilder should train naturally to their limit and then it is their decision what to do thereafter. He said of course it is nothing to do with him as a person and I could do what I liked but as a doctor he could not condone it.
In fact I met him in hospital when I broke my ankle. He is the surgical houseman and he assisted at my operation and I was there for a week. I later told his boss, the consultant surgeon, how appreciative I was of his assistant's help and care and would like to thank him personally and write to him. The consultant said that was nice and gave me the hospital address to write to him. So I did everything correctly and am no longer a patient there and that is ok. He was most flattered to be sent a thank you letter by a patient, it's the first time it has happened to him. He told me he really needed to improve his English and so that was our reason to meet although of course it was also social.
2 hours is quite a long time for the first meet and so he must have found me good company and also so say 'next time we meet' but I have those misgivings I outlined above. He knows I have not many friends here yet and asked me also about that.
My mother said either he really wants to improve his English and also cultivate a friendship with someone older than him who is interesting and whom he can learn from or else, could simply be a player.
He is a young Turk, modern and educated and born here but wants in a few years to return to Turkey and practise medicine there as a plastic surgeon. I know it is hard for me, but I would like to keep away from any intimacy and keep him as a friend. I do not have many friends, especially interesting and humourous ones. I felt he was quite special when I met him in hospital and otherwise would not have approached him. I told him this, in an unflirty way, just that I liked him as a person and enjoyed his company and he thanked me and said he would call. He said he didn't know when because obviously, as a hospital doctor, his time is at a premium, and he does not always know what his hours are.
However, he does have time for a social life or he would not have said that he'd meet me again. He said next time maybe I'd be less tense and said my body language showed me as very nervous which was true.
I am worried he gets a bad impression of me because of my nervousness. The age difference and tattoos should not matter to him if we have just a friendship and if, as he has said so many times, he just wants to learn English.
I badly want to message him by text (seeing as I now have his cell number and he rarely reads emails) but think it is too soon and I should wait for him to ring.
I only met him on Tuesday; it is Thursday today and he told me he is working on Saturday. I figured that if I hear nothing by Sunday I should sms him sending just a casual 'how are things?' in his own language (he said he'd teach me Turkish which could be useful here as there is such a large population of Turks) and this would be harmless enough.
Waiting for him to call is agony because I want to correct any bad impression I may have made with him, and also need to see him a second time to sort out what exactly is going on. I have no boyfriend plans for him as he is too young and too rooted in his culture which although not a problem for me, would be one for him eventually.
During our meet he made me no compliments but the fact he said he wanted to meet again should speak for itself.
I am just worried he has second thoughts really because of my nerves. My age and tattoos should not bother someone who just wants to be friends. We both know he is a lot younger than me and there is no long term future here and he knew about my tattoos as when I had the op the incision was made on the point of my leg tattoo.
Would a friendly sms on Sunday be permissible? I really need to know if I will see him again or just forget it as an abherration. Or should I send it now??
Thanks and sorry for this being so long;)
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-24-2003
Sat, 04-21-2007 - 5:04am
Yes it certainly is partly to do with his culture. I dated a few other Turkish guys (there are a lot here in Germany) and they tended to make carping remarks although one was very sweet and attentive and then rang me later and said could he just visit me for sex!!
Tempting though it is I try not to stereotype people because of ethnicity however. I think he simply is like that as a person. His saying that next time I'd cook a meal for him in my apartment marked him out as a player.
I realised that in those 2 hours we'd not had a serious conversation but it was more like a ping-pong match full of banter and he kept a laughing mask on which he never let slip to show any real sincerity.
He said he supposed the only friends I had were 'anabolic-heads' which shows his great ignorance of my sport and I think that if someone likes someone they take them as a package even if what they do or some things about how they look or dress are not to their taste.
I respected him; I've dated cuter guys and ones who said nicer things but I was completely prepared to meet him again to see if there were hidden depths to him. I cannot understand why, after one meet, these guys decide that it's not worth continuing to give someone a second look. He obviously liked something about me as he said he wanted to meet again but, as you said, he'd just have gotten more critical and made more sniping remarks and it would have ended even more unpleasantly and with more acrimony.
Even worse actually would have been if he'd been more charming and wanted to pursue things because he is much younger than me and I am sure with his background there would have been no chance at all for any kind of future or even a nice friendship. The saddest thing is that I really expected better of him.
He is educated and modern and I didn't expect him to conform to his ethnic type. Sure; there are a lot of Turks here who expect women to be completely subservient and 'traditional' but I actually thought that he was different which he is not. Even someone who is conservative can be a nice person but by his remarks he showed that he was not. He puts on an act in the hospital; says his charm and kindness to patients is 'part of the healing process' but it is simply an act since he cannot keep it up outside of the hospital and outside of his profession his true character shows.
iVillage Member
Registered: 11-30-2006
Sat, 04-21-2007 - 10:51am

A person's true character always comes out. I have had a horrible time with doctors here in America. I have been harassed by them for years. I took one of them for a restraining order and I couldn't get it based on Florida's requirement for "credible threat" - he has to physically assault me or threaten my life verbally to me a couple of times before the court would grant me an order of protection.

Doctors here are perpetuating a horrible crime against American citizens. They are purposely misdiagnosing people with cancer to experiment on them, hiring men to beat women senseless and faceless, botching surgeries leading to death or maiming or injury or anesthesia is screwing up thus rendering pretty young brunettes comatose and brain damaged. Why? for profit and to make sure all of our disposable income goes to medical care and....to make sure people are too traumatized to question President Bush's policies in Iraq and in America. Because of his neo con machine, there is no longer a middle class in America, just the "haves" and the "have nots". In my personal life I know of 18 people who got hit bad with this, plus me. They form cluster attacks on people and want to "pop" everyone's minds. That is a large number.

The doctor who I tried to get a restraining order to protect me from is a very "charming" (to his patients only) kind of guy who everyone takes orders from, is rich and pretty much bought everyone's soul in Florida. I wrote letters to many politicians here telling them that these doctors formed a network in America and are hurting many people. Of course no one believes you or doesn't want to deal with the messiness of putting doctors, nurses, politicians, law enforcement in jail. No one knew the truth, but, no one wants to know the truth so the crime spree continues.

Stupid banter back and forth, not leading anywhere is a definite sign that the guy only wants sex. Flirty conversation is nice.

As far as respect goes, you gave that of yourself to the wrong person and now you'll be better able to withhold that until the next person demonstrates that they are worthy of that respect. I don't just give respect away, someone has to earn it.

I am 45 and I do not have a man in my life either right now. Sure, crushes are nice, but they don't replace the real thing. Who knows if I'll ever meet someone who treats me in the same manner as I would treat him?

I agree with you, in that, a person needs to be treated as a package deal. I once asked a guy who I was once married to what he thought was my best feature and he said that I was a package and it was everything together. I didn't take it as a compliment back then (you know that guys can say stupid things) because I wanted to know what it was about me that he liked, so I thought he was skirting the issue. Now, many years later, his answer wasn't so bad, was it?

One guy I dated said I was a "wholesome beauty" - now that was a backhanded compliment, and no one can convince me otherwise. He said I wasn't his normal "type". I never asked him what his normal type was, because I knew I was getting set up to feel bad about myself (I'm not that stupid), but I wont like ever hearing that from a man again. What? Are you going through a "growth phase", "learning about yourself"? or are you feeling down about yourself so you decided to "slum it" for a while with someone who you consider a step down from your normal "type" - your precious "type". I read an article online where, as a man gets older his values towards dating women changes. So, I peruse the article and I see that a 45 year old man said something to the effect that now that he is older he is not chasing Victoria's Secret type models and that as long as the woman is fairly attractive he would consider dating her. "FAIRLY ATTRACTIVE" "F-A-I-R-L-Y A-T-T-R-A-C-T-I-V-E" - read it!!! Can you believe the ego on this guy?!! My goodness. I wish I knew him personally so that I can rip him a new "you know what". He's probably short, fat, bald but has alot of money. So that is what I have to look forward to? A relationship with some guy who pines for Victoria's Secret models while he "settles" for me?!!! No. I would rather be alone for the rest of my life.

People shouldn't be so picky on one item because if they took a closer look in the mirror they would find that they are no prize, but men have taken the upper hand here and women walk away feeling dejected. So dont' feel dejected, because this guy is definitely not worth it.

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-24-2003
Sat, 04-21-2007 - 12:08pm
*sigh* so much of what you said was interesting!
Firstly, am shocked about the medic situation in the US. That's what comes of having the expensive private medicine set-up you have there.
In Europe if we are not insured we still have to pay but I don't think it is as expensive. I am self-employed and not earning halfway enough to make paying health insurance a reality and so I hoped I wouldn't have a nasty accident, which I did, being hurled to the floor when the escalators suddenly stopped. Imagine today to my chagrin, when I saw the escalators had been taken out for overhaul! I didn't sue them because here it is difficult to get compensation and there are no contingency fees so after paying all those medical bills, didn't also feel like throwing away money on a lawyer.
Yes, he did seem superficial. I've had more interesting conversations with waiters and all sorts of folk with humbler jobs and this means that it wasn't that he couldn't converse intelligently but just didn't feel like it and didn't want to get any mental closeness so the banter was a defence.
My mother said I shouldn't have sent him a message 2 days after we met but I am glad I did. If he had seen me in a good light and respected me, even just as a friend, he'd have replied even just a few words. It was a compliment writing to him in Turkish and anyone else would have been flattered and amused. But he by then had decided I wasn't interested in a one-nighter and so had mentally disposed of me and had probably forgotten me immediately and was annoyed to get a reminder of me.
One guy I knew flew all the way from Germany to Italy to meet me. He said he liked 'the whole package' so I know what you mean. It didn't go anywhere in the end but for someone to make such an effort etc meant a lot.
This guy on Tuesday sat right down on the ice cafe terrace and didn't make any attempt whatsoever to offer to buy a coffee so that in the end I got up and he shamefacedly said it's ok he'd buy something.
When we parted, he said he'd better see me across the road as I was in a plaster and couldn't walk well. I thought he'd at least take my arm or guide me across but he practically walked across the road ahead of me!!
In my opinion, when a guy (especially these players who just want sex) has decided you don't fit he can't wait to get away. He's the sort of guy who, if he'd got what he wanted, would have scrambled into his clothes and out of the door before one could blink. And sadly I've had more than one of those experiences.
iVillage Member
Registered: 11-30-2006
Sat, 04-21-2007 - 8:57pm

Are you from Germany originally? Because you know so many languages. What I have observed in your writings is that men want to cheap out when it comes to sex and dating. They want to pay as little as possible to get as much as possible. Geez, they can't even buy you a burger and a soda anymore, huh? A while ago, I went on a couple of blind dates and I usually make them lunchtime dates because, you HAVE to get back to work, it does cost less for the guy and if it doesn't work out I don't feel as though I "used" him, and it is less intense and more conversational. I could tell one guy was real cheap and he didn't ask if I wanted desert. Then, as he is walking me to my car, he asks if he could see me again and I said "no, I don't think things would work between us." He said, "we can be friends?" I said "no, we were not friends before and we will not be friends now."

I haven't dated in over 6 years because of what has happened to me. The psycho doctor made sure that any guy that dated me would become his little prostitute and report back private details of our dates and try to screw my head up with some verbal abuse. Psycho doctor actually believes he owns me, like a slave. This is what happens when you reject a rich doctor who thinks he is above the law. His word may as well be the word from God because he is a "doctor" and I am only a lowly woman. He slandered me so bad that it has taken over 5 years for people to start believing me that he is hurting me.

You are lucky that you did not sustain horrible injuries from that escalator collapsing. In NY many years ago, I think it was Grand Central Station (not a department store) where the escalator collapsed and a woman was thrown into the escalator and the gears grinded her to death. Since that time, I keep one foot on one step on the escalator and one foot on the step below, just in case. It was a horror.

The problem with medicine in this country is not the privatization of it, but that the govt permits doctors to experiment on us and abuse us for the doctors' gain and their gain as well. Medicine is like the hired thugs the govt takes on to terrorize us for them so we don't question any of Bush's policies or his philosophy.

I haven't had alot of the running out the door, like you have had. I think because I have been too scared to date over the last 6 years. Women here are ending up with very jealous guys who beat them within inches of their lives (more money for plastic surgery doctors and mental health). The beatings have been 10 hours long. Women have been set on fire too because of breaking up with jealous psycho guys.

My main problem is that the group of doctors who are harassing me lied about me to the govt and the US people that I was part of some sick stunt that was a lie to begin with, so that the american people would go along with it and once "in" , the trap doors slammed shut and now our govt wants us to stay abused and maimed and tortured by doctors, the violent felons that they hire to rape, kill and hurt us. Basically we have a secret govt operating under the guise of a real US govt. This secret govt is a gang. People talk about impeachment everyday for Bush, and I keep hoping that when I wake up in the morning, him and his staff are gone. But no such luck. Because of this lie, and the mistreatment I got from the police and attorneys, I'm stuck. I'm totally stuck. And because the "conspiracy" against me will not be called off by this sick govt, no one feels that they can tell me whether or not I will get my life back. I have been put, so to speak, in a plastic bubble. Everyone "roleplays" with me instead of having real conversation with me. I assume that the "Linda" who actually signed up for this horror has a script and a set of instructions to go by. I have been living in a vacuum for 5 years now. I am losing the best years of my life and I want to punish every single solitary govt official who did this to me. They hold onto me like I am a prized artifact instead of a person. Slavery is against the law and these idiots (includes doctors, friends and family who left me for dead) will go to Federal prison for this.

But, since no one has the decency or respect of me to tell me whether or not I am getting help, I don't really trust people.

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-24-2003
Mon, 04-23-2007 - 10:08am
Yes, I also steady myself that way on the escalator. I nearly did get chewed up by the gears and the guys who came to pick me up did it just in time as I was lying there with my leg broken and the escalator started running again. It was like something out of a horror movie, truly.
The guys who run out after sex thing has also not happened to me for quite a few years since I haven't got myself into that situation recently but I am sure this last guy had that on his mind.
I am British but live in Germany. Guys here do tend to cheap out on dates as you say but not all of them do. The ones who just want something for nothing often tend to be like that. Yesterday I went to a big fitness exhibition with a German man friend. He is half my age so no agenda and we shared costs of gas and so on and it was a nice day out.
Unfortunately when sex is on the agenda men start to behave like jerks. If this doctor had genuinely wanted English lessons and perhaps platonic friendship he wouldn't have behaved as he did I am sure.
He would have been more serious, talked about a course of lessons, maybe what material to buy and how much the lessons cost. I am a professional and I am sure he wouldn't like to work for nothing.
He was of course just playing games and as I say, I've had better conversations with waiters.
I think nowadays it is so easy for guys to get laid that they do not feel like they should have to spend any money on it.
The doctor was good looking and so he felt he didn't have to try to be pleasant and if I wasn't ready for a booty call it would be easy enough to find another.
iVillage Member
Registered: 11-30-2006
Mon, 04-23-2007 - 10:33am

"Unfortunately when sex is on the agenda men start to behave like jerks." - isn't that amazing? It is like watching a magical transformation. How nice you got to go to an exhibition yesterday. I got to mow the lawn.

That doctor will end up with a very shallow woman. If he relies soley on his looks and his degree to woo and impress women, then that is what he will end up with - someone who only values him for his looks and degree. Years down the road he will feel "unfulfilled" and then look for a woman who has "substance" and who sees him for more than looks and degree. That will probably occur in his late 40's. But he will need to go through a range of emotions and life lessons in order to come to that conclusion by himself.

I love it when women feel that their role in life is to change men. Men don't change unless they want to. Women are a little more pliable, because that is what we were taught to do to "catch" a man. Then eventually women learn not to change for anyone, including a man.

For a little more security, in regards to my situation, I decided to put up a profile in myspace.com. If I need to, I can put info in there that can properly identify me, where I am , who I am and what happened to me. I did that also this weekend.




Edited 4/23/2007 10:35 am ET by snafu2006
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-24-2003
Mon, 04-23-2007 - 12:22pm
Well..he is a sad stereotype unfortunately. In a few years he will return to Turkey then find a young wife to have kids with and most likely later on start to fool around. He is surprisingly shallow and superficial for an educated man but as I say, he is hidebound by his culture. I know Turks who live in Turkey who are more enlightened than he is but people who tend to live away from their country can often adopt a 'ghetto' mentality and start to use their roots as a kind of barrier. However, it is usually the uneducated ones who are like this so I am disappointed in him.
As you say, he may eventually see the error of his ways but I'm not sure. My ex was similar in type and he was older and I cannot see him changing.
I know that some men disapprove of my tattoos and my sport but I enjoy my sport and my tattoos are done and some people like them anyway. He did not ask any questions about the sport but instead made unpleasant judgmental remarks which was sad.
Yes, the fitness exhibition was a long way away but a young German friend wanted to go and asked me with which was a nice surprise. My gym owner gave me 2 free tickets to it and I met several people who can help me with fitness related matters there amongst the booths and people from all over Europe were there and one of the top American bodybuilders too and it is the top fitness expo in Europe so I was lucky to get to go as I do not have a car and would not feel confident driving from here to another city.
I have met men who have not had anything in common with me but still they are respectful. If he criticised my body language his was even worse. When we met he simply slumped down in one of the cafe chairs in a kind of 'here I am..admire me you lucky thing' and did not attempt to offer me anything until I had to raise the subject.
I wrote him an email today telling him what I thought of him..in a polite enough way though. I said I was sorry my hobby and tattoos frightened him but was rather surprised since as a doctor he must see all kinds of things!
Don't know whether he'll appreciate the irony or even reply.
iVillage Member
Registered: 11-30-2006
Mon, 04-23-2007 - 9:00pm
He is lucky he got an email from you because he wouldn't have gotten one from me. "When we met he simply slumped down in one of the cafe chairs in a kind of 'here I am..admire me you lucky thing'" - hehehehehe - too funny! I have seen the same posture and look before. I dont' have any tattoos, but so many people have them that it would be hard today to find someone who didn't have a tattoo. Dont let him get you down. Can you find someone athletic to date? Any opportunities within your sporting activities? I knew someone who ended up dating her soccer coach, not the best move in the world, but she was happy with him for a little while.
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-24-2003
Tue, 04-24-2007 - 10:42am
Well, I met my ex at my last gym. True, he turned out to be a complete a**hole but as you say, one does meet people through sport/activities.
As you say, tattoos are common enough but I think even if I hadn't got a tattoo, this guy would have found something he didn't like. He already said he didn't like bodybuilding or anything associated with it.
I can't work out why he was like that; he was very keen to meet up etc but I can only think that he wanted a bootycall and realised that I didn't and was frustrated and so became unpleasant.
He was quite nasty after I tried to talk to him in Turkish and said 'knowing a few words of Turkish doesn't mean you can speak it.' I am really disappointed in him as I say. I knew he was full of himself but didn't know he could be so mean. I bet I will get some unpleasant reply email from him but who cares. I got it off my chest what I wanted to say to him; he should realise he can't be so arrogant but probably he doesn't even care.
iVillage Member
Registered: 11-30-2006
Tue, 04-24-2007 - 1:03pm

I can see he is still pissing you off. Don't allow this guy to keep you stuck in place with him. "I can't work out why he was like that" - it really doesn't matter "why" - there are so many possible reasons why he was like that - game player, bootycaller, jerk, typical doctor, picky to the point of unreasonableness, some guys have a pygmalion complex and like remaking women, etc. What matters is that he is not right for you and now you need to move on because you did get to get it off of your chest.

If you need additional closure then try to write things down and then discard the letter. He may never tell you the "whys" and really it is unimportant - I know that it is important so you can learn for the future, but in reality, just know that you don't like guys who are very picky and who like to keep a woman feeling down about herself.