His Children

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-18-2004
His Children
9
Wed, 10-20-2004 - 5:10pm

I'm seeking some information as to how I can make a successful transition. My boyfriend of whom I've been dating eventually wants me to meet his two very young children (3 & 4 year old girls). I want to be prepared as much as possible from an educational point of view so thats where I am reaching out to others.

I have never been married and have no children & he of course has children from his previous marriage. I'm not going to pretend, but I'm nervous about meeting his children. I'm not sure if it is the meeting them or how they'll react.

I'd like to know what I can do for myself to prepare when the time comes to meet his kids. I just know how important this is for me and I don't want to mess things up because of my lack of understanding. Is there anything I can read or learn from anyone out there? Also, if there is a future for him and I which involves marriage, how do you educate yourself so I don't become a hinderence to his children. Maybe its nerves that are talking, but it is different.

Please take this that I'm so excited for the day to come. Its beautiful understanding his relationship with his children and I want to become a part of his life holistically. I'm really just wanting to understand better how others have reacted in this situation and if there is something I should read so I can be well equipted mentally before the time comes.

-JC

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 10-20-2004 - 5:26pm

uniqueindividual...

What's wrong with asking your b/f (in advance) what types of interests his 3 & 4 year old girls have? Perhaps you could purchase a little gift for each of them (that's related to those interests)?

Pianoguy isn't suggesting that you BUY their love or respect, but it's amazing how quickly a youngster will 'gravitate' to an adult who actually KNOWS something about the stuff they enjoy...or things that they like to do!

I'd also suggest that you BE COOL, BE FRIENDLY....but DON'T FAKE or OVERDO your emotional responses. Depending upon your approach, the first few meetings with the girls will either make them very confident around you...or will 'trigger' a report to their Mom about the "new shrew" their Dad is dating!

Be cool and you'll get through!

Best wishes and warm thoughts from

Pianoguy

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 10-20-2004 - 5:49pm
Look - until there is commitment and a future between you already mutually agreed - DO NOT MEET IS KIDS.

I've been all around this block.

But if you meet his kids now - you're going to be "wooing" them trying to get them to like you - so as to further the relationship. The kids are going to be the ones with the "power" and they'll abuse it in life later on in every venue and relationship.

Kids don't date - they attach. Kids aren't independent - they're reliant.

So, once you two have firmly established a commitment and a future is imminent - then meet his kids. Because you'll be introduced from the position of authority and power that you'll hold from the time that you cohabitate and marry.

What doesn't work is you being "equal" with his kids in everybody's eyes, you being the source of ice cream and the reason they get to stay up late at your prodding with their dad in order to "foster a good environment"...and then you two marrying, you becoming impacted by their not going to bed "except when they want and say" - and their disregard of you as anybody but someone to be ignored unless there is a specific use for you to fulfill by their way of thinking.

You can't go from being the person hey have to approve of in order to keep dating...to the person in charge of them in every regard and aspect.

There's enough trouble when kids are raised from the beginning knowing who's in control, in charge, who's responsible for them, and who they're accountable to. Try putting them in the position of being an adult with a few "adult" options as they see it - and then try downsizing their position to that of mailroom clerk - see if they like it, see if they don't really screw with you and him....and see if they don't end up screwed up as adults in the process.

This relationship isn't about 'his kids'. It's not because of, in spite of, despite of, about, towards, for, or regarding "his kids". This relationship is between you and him - to be partners in life- when the 'role" of parent is long past you both regarding these kids.

There has to be harmony and unity within you two - so that you both are in appropriate positions of responsibility for them and supervision and guidance of them......anything that makes you on their level or trying to earn their approval - that is why "blended families" don't blend.

You're looking at being someone who makes huge sacrifices in terms of time, options, pportunities and finances for these children as a parent. Those aren't things that are appreciated or understood until they're adults. In light of the fact that as a parent - if you become that - you're required to do the giving, sacrificing, expending, enduring and effort NOW......and they're doing the getting, options, opportunities, and events NOW...there is a huge disparity in the "perception" of how life works from their point of view. That is totally skewered and almost unfixably mangled when you start out "trying to be their friend" - only to have to begin to make these huge sacrifices and efforts and now want their "cooperation and assistance" - which they don't perceive is "owed" you - "what have you done for me lately, lady anyway?"


Erin

quickblade14@hotmail.com

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 10-20-2004 - 6:03pm

Erin...

Why are you being so hostile to this lady? It's obvious (from her post) that she's both excited and apprehensive about the upcoming meeting.

I didn't get the impression the woman was trying to be EQUAL with anybody. All she seemed to be looking for was a suggestion or two as to how to handle herself during this first 'encounter!'

The woman wasn't assuming the role of the "wicked stepmother" nor did she indicate she was expecting any special treatment from "the girls!" She just wants to meet 'em!

Pianoguy

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 10-20-2004 - 6:38pm
I'm not being hostile...just realistic.

Having put a child thru this -never anticipating anybody would be so irresponsible as me....there is something to be said about facts.

Children don't date....dating is about 'the moment" - it's not relying on anything in terms of promises or expectations - it's just enjoying the moment at hand...while it's fine to hope for more moments....you don't structure your life around "more moments' without commitment that is mutually agreed to.

Kids don't operate from the premise of an adult - who is in charge of where they go, waht they do, what they wear, what they pursue, and is optioned and independent. They're very dependent and reliant, and tend to "follow rules and guidelines" (or rebel - but that's another story).

What is the "goal" of parenting - it is to take a "small person" and give them the tools and guidance, mentoring and love to be able to establish a happy, complete, succesful, secure, self-accepting, self-defined and self-responsible "adulthood".

That's hard enough if the relationship begins as it must proceed - in order for that to happen. The parent/child relationship is not an equality based venture. The only reasons that kids know that - is because they come into the world "needing" the providership, love, guidance of their parents. They come in "in need" - and there immediately is a source ot meet that need.

What is very common - is for young adult to go out and seek relationships in the first and second or third go-rounds with romantic involvement - and by default of the only "adult' relationship they've ever had being "inequality based" - and this person prioritizing me over them...they get into a romantic relationship with the assumption - this person I'm dating and sleeping with and sharing my thoughts with "cares about me and my needs more than their own immediate gratification." Untrue...and you find that out pretty quick and move into the more equality based relationships.

But, the problem comes in when parents bring thru the revolving door - every "date" to meet the kids. Why do that? Are the kids - if they cry or scream, or refuse to affiliate - are you going to "stop dating this person or them stop dating you?" That is quite often the case...and that means "who's in charge here?" The kid is - and they figure it out pretty quick.

If you'd talk to children's counselors...they'd tell you that the jaded and cynical 12 year old that has met every "potential mate" that both mom and dad have considered...has learned that these 'people" aren't to be bonded with, considered as anything but objects to be used to get my way, in this particular instance. They know that if they create enough upset and disrruption by skipping school, smoking, failing class - the parent won't have the time to deal with them....the job, the housework...AND prioritize dating. And if the parent is dating someone who is determined to "hold on thru the hard times" - that person is usually brought in as a cohabitational element - because it's too hard to take time away from the job of parenting and work to see you - Ill bring you in and see you whenever my time permits without effort on my part. So there is the person who this kid has no use for...who they see as an intrusion and an interference and the "reason" that mom/dad doesn't spend enough time, or have enough money for me and what i want.....to be ablet o impact you with their very actions, decisions, and words.

I realize, this is a negative example..but unfortunately, it's not an extreme one. BEcase if a parents job is to protect you from unsavory elements, while teaching you values, and how to define happiness, success and security for yourself when you mature - that means it is the parents job to screen who their children are supervised by (they do it with sitters and daycare!) and if it is a cohabitational partner...to ensure prior to this child finding it out the hard way - that these two adults share values and priorities, perceptions of parenting, and definition of a great life and how to achieve it. The child in teh mix is not necessary - for the parent to know that. In fact, if the child is in the mix - it is often more diffficult for the parent to objectively ascertain that.


what is very uncommon in our society - is for women to say to men "You can't meet my children untilwe're committed to one another." But it isn't that uncommon for men to say it, mean it and live up to it in full. There's a guy on another board called Spiceman...and his approach is quite honorable to all involved.

But basically, she's not permitted to parent.....if she's meeting them socially and interacting with them as "his date". The children are give the stated or subconscious message "be nice around Miss Ann"...adn they're rewarded once Miss Ann leaves. So they're not really encouraged to get to know Miss Ann...or Miss Ann to know them - everybody is encouraged to be on their best behavior. The cildren to get the rewards that are coming for doing so...and her because that would mean he would be willing to continue the relationship.

So you go from being the person that 'dad leaves you with when he's got to go to work on SAturday"...who has no real authority or control...and as a result of that, Miss Ann spends those saturdays with the girls taking them out and doing "whatever they want" - within reason. The kids come to regard the time they spend with her as "free recess"....and there is no discipline required because in it's not hard to obey about putting on a seatbelt when we're headed for the pony ride.

What about the day that comes when instead of the pony ride - it's to the doctor, or school, or to some other function that the child doesn't want to attend.....this person has had no authority nor control, nor been regarded as someone who must be obeyed.

There has been cooperation because of benefit - on both parts...and generally when the visit to the doctor results in a scream match and a migraine because the child won't put on the seatbelt, and runs around the garage, and is screaming hysterically for her father and tellig the neighbors that "miss Ann is so mean to me"....there is going to be a real problem in the relationship.

Covey's approach is best utilized - start with the end in mind. If your "goal" is to have your children bond in the parent/child inequality based dynamic with your future mate - you wouldn't introduce them to everybody you date. You can easily date without their involvement, their approval, or their interaction - and you should. Because dating is for adults - not kids. Particularly as you're setting an example that they'll follow - and I"ve known quite a few parents who had a wake up call when their 17 year old daughter was found in bed, not scrambling to cover it up either, red handed with her boyfriend. The reasoning "well, you always brought yourdates home, I'm bringing mine home." At that point - you have an adult that has been given lots of adult privileges and rights by her definition -not yours - and who's actions have the potential to greatly eliminate or impact her future and she's not mature or "adult' enough to know it.

So, there really is no reason for people to meet the kids - of the people they date. It causes alot of confusion and upset. And that doesn't require that anybody mislead anybody wahtsoever.

Spiceman's approach is very honorable. He tells every woman he dates that they won't be meeting his daughters, nor will he be free to commit to any typeof relationship - until they are away at college....I believe that means another 2 years...and I'm not sure - but from the sound of it he's been the primary custody parent since the children were quite young.

If a woman is desiring commitment, cohabitation and marriage - she's dating the wrong man and knows it up front. And he makes it very plain that daughters and heir needs come first and foremost......and his daughters appear to be very emotionally balanced and mature and they're not objecting to his "dating" in any way because they're not negatively mpacted by a loss of attention or funds, or having to share their "dad time" with some strange woman.

I also date a guy like this....and I'm in complete agreement with this philosophy and goals regarding it. Why - because I DID NOT adopt this approach - adn the result I got was very typical of my approach -the child is a total emotional wreck, unable to bond, and quite immature - and at 22 - he now has options and opportunities which he's utilized to destroy alot of his potential. Fault/blame not being the point nor a solution - the point being that parents have to prioritize the "job of parenting" over all else - once they become parents if any good result is to come of it in the end.

That is why young people typically don't make great parents. Not that they don't lvoe the child, and it's not that they're not as financially secure as older parents....it's that they haven't gone out and done everything that they want and need to do - to be able to forgo events and offers - because they're no longer considered "opportunities or fun". The Chinese proverb of "I dreamt that life was joy, I awoke and found it work. And in doing the work, I found joy in the duty." That's parenthood - and it's really only possible to be done well by complete, secure, successful, mature, emotionally balanced individuals and couples.

My personal metaphor has always been this...if I had it to do over again, rather than use the child as a measuring stick and gauge of the level of commitment, or the potential of the relationship - I'd have first secured the commitment becuase if I'd done that - I'd have found out in all three cases...I had no business being married to them - they didn't respect me or the child -and he paid the ultimate price, I didn't.

It's not wrong of her to want to meet the kids...and it's not incorrect that he wants her to do it. To be excited is fine....but in that they're both mature adults....take the first of what is to be thousands of responsible, intelligent, goal focused steps with regard to these kids. Is her meeting the kids in THEIR best interests? Probably not. They have nothing to gain from it.....and everything to lose asa result of it. Not because she's a bad person, not because he's a bad person...but this "dating' is none of their business.

Erin

quickblade14@hotmail.com




iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 10-20-2004 - 6:51pm

Erin...

I think you're making a much bigger issue out of this than necessary...but you're entitled to your opinions...as I am to mine (and Spiceman is to his).

Pianoguy

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Wed, 10-20-2004 - 11:02pm

First, I have to say I'm glad I didn't read Erin's response before meeting my boyfriend's kids. I would have been even more nervous than I was!

My advice--just be yourself. Don't try to be anything but who you are. I don't know your boyfriend's opinion, but mine did not introduce casual dates to his kids. They are old enough to understand what dating is and what it means. So, when he introduced me to them, they knew I was more than just a casual friend. As I would with anyone, I showed interest in them, found out what they like to do, even found out I'm not too bad at Frisbee (a favorite of one of them). I talked to them as I would any other kid their age. You will be nervous--that's expected and OK. The best way to prepare is to learn about the kids so you know what they like/dislike. I do not suggest bringing a gift--they might expect that all the time. But do offer to play with them, do what they like. Be an adult, but not parent. Kids are smart--they will know if you are being true or not. So, as simple as it sounds, it's worth repeating. Be yourself and enjoy it when you do meet them.

I wish you the best of luck. I know what you are going through but I'm sure you'll be OK.

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-18-2004
Thu, 10-21-2004 - 8:54am

I really appreciate everyone's feedback. After I read Erin's response, I was thinking how can I be in a meaningful relationship without meeting the most important people in my boyfriends life. We both discussed this situation from the first date on and we both want to do this when he is completely ready for it to happen. I'm not worried that when I meet the children I'll be out the door. I'm more worried that this is a new situation and I really don't want to alienate the little girls. They are the most beautiful little girls and they are his life.

This is the first time in my life I have so patient. I mean we only get to see each other one whole day a week, couple times right after work, and whenever we can squeeze time out. I want him to know that if we should move forward it is important I build a relationship with his children. Especially when he has them 6 days a week and he agrees. I've been cautious as well he has to not set a specific date, but it will happen.

I'm nervous. I'm not about to lie. He's dated other women and they never met his children. I'm going to be the first female other than their mother that will be a part of his life. I never really thought I'd meet a guy who together enhances each other's lives, let alone a guy who has two beautiful little girls.

This is a new situation to me and I want to do the right thing for the children. This has nothing to do with how I feel. Because I feel that when the day he wants me to meet them, I should be a responsible adult and understand how the kids will feel and how I should handle this new experience.

It really does help to know how others have dealt with the situation and I want all who responded, I appreciate your comments.

Thanks again.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 10-21-2004 - 9:57am

Something that might ease your fears is this.....

Basically, you're going to "meet" his children......so just keep in mind your goal and job isn't to "win them over". This isn't a job interview, and it's not a social event.....and there is a great chance as this is going to happen....for you to learn volumes about him - as a person.

What might be helpful on your own....is to sit down and review parenthood. Because involvement with him - whether you're a parent or not - you're being impacted by the "obligations, duties, responsibilities and requirements" of parenthood - his to the children at present.

So making sure that you're prepared - if this relationship commits - to make the sacrifices and take on the responsibilities of parenthood - as you understand it, is a good thing.

What might help is a review of your life as it is right now......and how much of your life do you have to "reschedule" or work around (willingly and with delight, of course) in order to accommodate seeing him and involvement with him. If you have a great many interests, priorities, goals, and requirements in your own life....it's something to consider how much of that you're going to totally eliminate, and also greatly downsize - in order to accommodate the needs of children. That's the thing...kids have needs - not wants - and it's a parent's job to know the difference between the two.

They need consistency, congruency, schedule, goals, boundaries, nurturing, guidance, and love.....all that requires a great deal of effort and prioritization on your part - and not in the "fun part" of parenting, per se. The old "grandparents have the fun job" - is true.

Grandparents get to feed 'em candy, spoil 'em rotten - send 'em home....and how well structured and adhered to the roles of parent/child are at home - depends on whether you have a rebellious, angry, or withdrawn child for a few days after a week with grandparents.

So, it'd be good to know on your part - as you've never prioritized having your own children, and never dated anybody with children - are YOU PERSONALLY willing to downscale and eliminate some of your interests and options in order to raise "small unfocused and in need people into resopnsible, successful, secure big people".

That's something most people don't consider - and often find themselves enmeshed in having to do without, or a total restructure and odwnscale of their own goals and interests due to parental obligation...only to find out those interests, goals, pursuits, etc. on a personal level met needs you didn't realize were being met...and now aren't..uh oh!

If you're prepared to do parent, wanting to do it and within the scope of your ability to comprehend it are willing to take it on......then "meeting" his kids is all you need to do...and stand back and observe primarily.

Watch his parenting style - you'll see his values and priorities regarding that job - and see if you agree. Two things that divide relationships are money and parental job definition disparity.

If how he parents his children.....is a) getting results that you agree with......b) is in methods that also align with your values and principles.....then you two probably wouldn't have much problem parenting together.

Of course, you should discuss what his view is of the new "parental figure" his children will interact with.....because the children will now have 3 or 4 parents (if she's remarried or has an SO) and you've all got to work together as a 3- or 4 person team to be consistent and ongruent in the requirements, values, discipline and expectations of these kids.

What is problematic about step-parenting if there isn't a good working relationship with the benefit and long-term well being as mutually defined by both now split up parents - is that yo'ure caught in the middle. If you agree with HIS methods and HIS values...quite often the cihldren will come home with a completely new set of toys or having indulged in options that you two NEVER would have given or offered. That's problematic.

So, once you've assessed your willingness to parent as you understand it -y ou might disscuss with him what his vision is for the new "wife" that he takes - be it you or someone else - in light of the parental obligations.

Because the sacrifices of time, effort, money, options, or opportunities that HE makes for the well-being of his children by his definition - if you're cohabitational and committed - you're going to be making them to by default of affiliation. Whether you agree or not. The impact these children have on your lives - you're going to have it - whether you're there as a disciplinary and guidance mentor - or whether you're "just there" and not really able to have much input or control or supervisory capacity because he doesn't wnat that for his children. He wants to parent, he wants his ex-wife to parent - but he doesn't really want a "step parent' in the mix. He's wanting a life partner for him...and for a few years there is going to be obligation, sacrifice, effort, and work on behalf of his children on her part - by default of this alliance.

So, I'd say observe his parenting style -r ealizing that the initial meetings are going to be like "high heat infatuation" early in the dating phase. Default to him and/or his ex wife - in the event that the girls plead for an additional scoop of ice cream, etc....and if the little girls play up to you as if you're queen of the mountain - RUN!
Because it means they've been introduced around to dates plenty (even if it just by mom), have learned to manipulate and play the game....and they see every new person as a ready source of options and freebies for a limited period of time and that is what they're pursuing.

Something else just came to mind.....you said these little girls are his life. That's great. But realize that they'ree still going to be his #1 priority when you meet, once you meet, and while you're all interacting. If you want to start a tug of war - pursue his attention on this "date" with his kids. And if on this date - please stand back objectively throughout it - he tends to ignore you in favor of them...not "tends to their needs and pays you attention appropriately" - realize you're potentially in for a long road should you remain in the relationship.

If his perception is that he can't prioritize equally two very different types of relationships appropriately......and I've seen this alot which is why lots of parents shouldn't date because they can't get past this individual perception........what you're in for is basically him being able to give them more time and attention as a result of including you - becuase he'll put you and his relationship with you on the back burner, you'll be along as an adjunct and for his pleasure when the girls have gone to bed.....but basically, their hair, their schoolwork, their homework, their friends, their social calendar, their "needs" (because kids can't tell the difference between want and need) will come first......and you'll find yourself in "competition" for his attention - as if you were all "little girls".

I've talked to quite a few very balanced as I define it men...and four of them mentioned that is why they don't "date to find a partner" until their daughters are grown. The ones with sons....had less of an issue with it. I'm sure that has to do with being 'daddy's little girl".

Erin
quickblade14@hotmail.com

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-13-2003
Thu, 10-21-2004 - 11:40am

I didn't read what everyone else posted but here's my 2c.

Kids need boundaries. They respect people that have them. It is ok for you to push them back in line if they need it, they will respect you more for it. They can see right through empty gestures. They know when someone is trying to "buy" their approval. I coach kids that are slightly older, but they will tell you that even though I'm tough on them, that they still like me and still like coming to my practices. I recognize their ups and I try to correct their downs. They wouldn't say the same thing about my co-worker whose main goal is to be a friend!

Anyway, just my 2c. But I'd also watch some Disney channel before I'd meet them. Just cause it's fun, and hey, it probably wouldn't hurt!