how early can you talk 'serious' topics?

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-15-2004
how early can you talk 'serious' topics?
13
Sat, 09-18-2004 - 10:12am
Hello all. I really have some questions and I could use all the advice I can get. But, and I know this might sound a tad bit odd, but I am 35 yrs and do not have the same patience I once did at 21 when it comes to dating. I pretty much know what I want and do not want to waste time on someone who I clearly have no future with. (Not that I want to be rude, but my time is valuable and I don't have time to spend it on gameplayers that get no where).

Here is where I am right now. I have found this guy on this message board this past year or so who I find to be very attractive and interesting and feel as though there might be some real potential here.

At the same time, however, I also have the same need to do some pretty heavy 'screening', meaning, although I want to ask him out on a date, I also want to make the date very 'useful' and discuss important items for me to know such as what are his expectations, desires, need-to-haves and nice-to-haves in a relationship and also let him know mine, as well as talk about boundaries and a conflict resolution plan should we hit it off and want to go forward with it.

My question for you all is, is that too much 'serious' stuff to talk about on the first date? Or even in the first email?

When do you get to talk about the important things? How long do I have to I have to wait for all the unimportant things (talk about the weather, twiddle your thumbs) to get over with? How long do I have to wait to get to the point, the bottom line, of what do we really want and not want, and provided that, could we really do it, would we really be interested?

Patience for small talk (weather, etc) is not my strong suit, especially when my time is valuable and I know what I want and want to get straight to the point.

One more note, I will not be discusssing time lines, I have no deadlines for anything. What I primarily need to know is behavioural expectations and would we work well together.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 09-15-2004
Sat, 09-18-2004 - 10:39am
Also, would it help if I made sex contingent upon this? We must remain chaste and cannot be sexual until we discuss ground rules and both consent to abide by them during the duration of our relationship?

Can I ask for him in the first email, "Hello, my name is...and I have noticed you and would like to date you if you are interested. ...(my stats)... However, what I would like to know is what are your terms? What expectations do I have to meet in order to date you?" Or is that asking too much too soon?

I mean, would he be able to articulate what his expectations are this early? And could I talk about these things right off the bat? I honestly do not want to talk to him about the weather. I just want to know primarily what are his expectations, behavorial and otherswise, right from the get go. Or would that scare him off?

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Sat, 09-18-2004 - 11:06am
From a man's perspective (and I'm 43), when you haven't even met yet and you want to discuss; conflict resolution guidelines, behavioral boundaries and requirements for having consensual sex - is way too much too soon. I understand the value of time as time is the most valuable thing I have, but those kinds of questions do not promote getting to know one another.

I think in the first few dates the main goal is to see if there is mutual interest. You talk about things you like to do, your accomplishments and things you would like to do in the future. Dating is supposed to be fun. Its not supposed to be a negotiation on the rules of engagement for conflict resolution. Dating is not done in the board room. Dating is a set of shared experiences.

I do think it is fair and reasonable to discuss life goals, dreams and priorities over the next 1 to 5 years. You can ask about what qualities does he find attractive. You can ask what kind of relationship does he desire over the next few years. Keep the questions open-ended and the context broad and general. Any question you ask of him, you should also be prepared to answer yourself.

And please, do not ask these kinds of questions over email before your first date. Being warm, approachable, receptive and responsive with a great positive attitude is what will attract men. Inquisition style questions does not promote this.

Avatar for northwestwanderer
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Sat, 09-18-2004 - 12:10pm
If I have this correctly, you have no idea if this guy is even available to date or interested in dating you, and you've never met in person? If that's the case, then I would not ask him any questions at this point...I'd just get to the point of meeting each other! I'd send him a very casual email along the lines of "I've enjoyed your posts on the board and would like to get to know you better. Perhaps we could get together for a cup of coffee one of these days".

If he takes you up on it, and you hit it off in person, THEN you could ask if he's interested in dating you, and if so, what type of r'ship he's looking for in general. But the only way to really find out the answers to your questions is to spend time together.

But you're putting the cart before the horse, if you don't even have plans to meet yet!

Sheri

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-15-2004
Sat, 09-18-2004 - 5:55pm
Thank you both Sheri (btw I'm sorry, which one do you prefer Sheri or Northwestwanderer?) and Spiceman.

I guess the other main factor to consider is that he lives 5000 miles away from me. And that would be a lot of time and money spent on 'getting to know someone' when I could meanwhile be with someone who although I have no 'true love' with would at least be paying me for my time invested.

I don't know if I'm making any sense here, but my question is how do you go from being a paid mistress to 'real love'?

An 'arrangement' instead of 'true love' has always been my prefernce in the past because you both know what is expected of the other and you get to the bottom line from the get-go, and there are never any problems that way - it's always stress-free because the ground rules and expectations and agreements are all laid out from the get-go.

These past 5 years, however, I have unsucessfuly tried to make the switch from money to attempting true love, but I just can't get myself to see exactly how to do it because all this 'waiting around twiddling your thumbs' for 'true love' is just...it's like...what the are we waiting for?

I just don't understand why do we have to wait so long to get the point? I've never dated before because of this reason alone. Why do conventional dating rules forbid getting to the point?

Meanwhile I could be in an unconventional relationship getting compensated for it, instead of feeling like I'm wasting my time getting nowhere.

I don't know how others do it. Doesn't conventional dating just seem like it takes such a long time to get anywhere? One woman said I have to go out on several dates before I can bring up anything serious, and when I do bring up anything serious, even then I still have to keep it in the present and not in the future.

I mean, I guess if that's whta you have to do, then I probably won't ever do it, because I don't want to spend all that time and money only to find out I did all that for nothing.

Aren't there any shortcuts? There's got to be some shortcuts somewhere, right?

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-30-2004
Sat, 09-18-2004 - 5:58pm
I've had "serious" talks as early as the first date just to see how she feels about certain topics. It's no big deal to me.
iVillage Member
Registered: 09-15-2004
Sat, 09-18-2004 - 6:56pm
Really? So, I guess, what really is the decideing factor must be dependant upon the person you are with.

To be quite frank with you, I would really like it if I was grilled on the first 'conventional' date too.

In fact I don't feel comfortable unless I am grilled, becaues then I have no idea where his interests lie, and dislike guessing all the time.

Thank you for saying cheyefsky, now I don't feel so strange, and feel better others like me are out there too.

I guess I just have to get some kind of feel for how early can I get to the basics with him.

But before I hit the post button, let me just get this straight one more time, you are saying - for sure- that what I prefer to do (ie - get to serious topics - what will make or break any potential future from the beg.) would not scare you off? Is that what you are saying?

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-30-2004
Sat, 09-18-2004 - 10:38pm
Well I like to grill everybody really. I'm curious by nature and I'm interested to see how people feel about different situations. I mean, I don't force the topics on anyone, I'm just not shy about them.

>>>>But before I hit the post button, let me just get this straight one more time, you are saying - for sure- that what I prefer to do (ie - get to serious topics - what will make or break any potential future from the beg.) would not scare you off? Is that what you are saying?<<<<<

I wouldn't suggest asking him too many "serious" questions over email or message boards or anything like that. But if you go on a date with this guy, like to dinner or something, I don't see why you shouldn't be able to ask him how he feels about certain things. Just don't make it feel like he's being interrogated by the police or something because first dates are usually supposed to be light.

Just ease into it very casually like it's no big deal. Your tone is really going to make all the difference because you don't want to make it sound like he has to answer every question with a "correct" answer (although you might view it that way). If he senses you're naturally curious and interested in him you might get the answers you're looking for.

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-25-2003
Sun, 09-19-2004 - 12:00am
Hi...like I said to you on LDR, you're coming across pretty stalker-like. From what I can gather, you either want to have a relationship that's just based on getting immediate sexual needs met, or a serious long term relationship - and nothing in between - and you're willing to move to where he is to ensure one or the other happens.

But also, like I said, this guy didn't even respond to your first email, you have no idea whether he's available or not, you only know him as who he appears to be on a message board....there are a million things you need to find out before you even think about asking serious questions.

I'm in a similar position to you in that I am 32 and have no time to waste on people who are not interested in something potentially long term with me, and I won't play games and I'll be upfront that I won't waste anyone's time and that I don't expect someone to waste my time if they're not interested in forming some sort of commitment to me.

HOWEVER, I'm going to take my time to determine these things. They don't happen in the first email, on the first date, or within the first week or month even.

I met a guy on Monday and we've seen each other every day since. He's said he's not out for a fling and we've agreed that we want to get to know each other better - based on:

* time we've spent together this past week

* how we interact together

* how he treats me - I know it's not just sex based, because he's opted to leave my house when he's had the opportunity to stay

* our values and what's important to us on various topics

* things we have in common

* whether there is physical and emotional attraction that's not just initial infatuation or intrigue

* general goals and timelines for what we want to achieve

I like this guy and I want to get to know him better, based on what I've learnt about him from spending time with him. I certainly don't know yet if he's 'the one', because it's just too soon to be determined...but I'm willing to put in the effort and make/take the time to find out.

I would also point out that it's a two way street. It's all fine if I decide that he's the one for me, but if, in spending more time together, he decides I'm not who he pictured me to be, then it's gonna end. Again, time he spends with me will help him to make that decision.

The point I'm making is that there are NO shortcuts when it comes to long term commitments and relationships. Sure, you can ask some serious questions initially, but it's TIME and interaction that are the determining factors.

Keep focussing on this guy like you are and 5 years from now you're going to be back here in even more of a hurry to find someone and wondering why.

He's not the only fish in the sea.

Sorry if I've offended. Normally, I don't post so negatively about peoples' situations, but you're setting yourself up to be old, bitter and very, very single.

Eve

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-15-2004
Sun, 09-19-2004 - 4:02pm
Oh no, Eve, not at all, I don't mind at all. In fact I encourage other people's opinions from the outside, because just me wrapped up in my own desires is not enough to look at the whole picture. So, not at all, I don't mind at all. Please do tell.

In fact, now I have an update. I jsut tried to email him and his email address does not work. So now, this means I have to find someone else who knows him on that board and ask them if they could ask him for his email address to give to me.

I do not want to ask him directly, because it would be putting him 'on the spot' in front of all his friends, and you know how guys are. They don't like being put 'on the spot'. (Think the movie Grease, when Travolta didn't want his friends to know how he felt about Sandy). I know that was high school, but still, it only changes a small bit when they are older (he is in his 40s btw).

I will also have to wait to ask this older woman in her 60s for his email because I know he and her have a good relationship and I woudln't want to ask any of the other guys because again, I don't want him to feel 'on the spot'.

Of course, though, now I am left with the question, is that a good idea? Or is that also stalking-like maybe? (yikes, this is harder than I thought! lol)

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-19-2003
Mon, 09-20-2004 - 2:33am

Caroline, I'll answer your question as best I can.

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