how long to wait?????

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-21-2003
how long to wait?????
35
Tue, 03-09-2004 - 12:16am
How long do people usually wait before they move in and live with each other? Meaning how long do people date before deciding to move in with each other?

I know you guys all have said that my bf is like a little kid that doesnt want to grow up and that I cant change him, and that I cant expect any more from him, etc. I do listen to all you guys advice since you guys give good advice. I just feel sad and lonely and am seeking somewhat, to live with someone.

This whole past weekend and today has been just a disaster. I am angry, upset, sad, and worried. It all started out on Sat. My bf came down to stay with me over the weekend and on Sat morning, I took my two closest friends (they are two gay guys) to the airport. They were going to Asia on vacation. I was very sad to see my best friend go. I really wished I had decided to go with them on this trip. I cried a lot when he and his bf left.

When I got home, I realized my bf was up and that he knew I was crying. He wanted to know why and I told him. I was sad all weekend because I missed my best friend.

On Sunday, as I drove him home, I kind of threw a hissy fit. I got real emotional and told him that I was sick of driving him back and forth or coming back and forth to see him. It was taking a mental and physical toll on me. In order for me to see him, it is a two hour drive one way. I told him that I wanted him to move in with me and that I could help him out. We argued back and forth about moving in, the whole drive back to his place. He told me that he couldnt afford to move in with me, that he wanted to accomplish some things before he moved in with me, etc. He told me that he didnt think he could move in within 6 months or even a year. I told him that I put my plans on hold to move back to CA, because I wanted to see if I could have a relationship with him. I told him that I wanted to know if he was worth it or not, for all the stuff I put into this relationship. Yes, he does put a lot into this relationship too, but sometimes I feel as though I put in more. I dont know. He is kind, caring, and gentle to me. He treats me well and watches out for me.

Then he brought up the subject of my best friend, the gay guy. He still thinks I am in love with him because of the way I was this weekend when he went on vacation. yes, I do have strong friendship feelings for the guy but I have known him for almost 10 years and he has been there for me through thick and thin and I trust him. I finally was able to calm him down about that one, but he is afraid of how I am with my best friend. Yes, we argue a lot, yell at each otehr a lot, but we know each other well and know that although we may be angry with each other at that point, it doesnt mean we dont like each other.

I dont think my bf wants to live with me. I dont know if he ever will be able to. He says he wants to live with me but he wants to get some of his bills paid off, to get some of his art education done, and maybe get a better job. I am willing to compromise by moving to a border town, halfway between where I live now and where he lives. He could then take the train to work, but he doesnt seem like he wants to pay the $12 a day to do that, or to get up earlier to do that. I am not asking him to quit his job and move up by me. Last night, he was thinking I wanted that. I am trying to make concessions, but I dont know. I may let him somewhat move in with me, but have the option of living at home, meaning, I wont ask him to help me pay rent, but to help me keep house, etc. I dont know. He seemed sort of ok with that. Only bad thing is I would have to move down by him and then I would have to give up my job and find a new one, or do a two hour commute one way.

He says he hasnt known me long enough to move in with me since he thinks if we live together, we may doom our relationship. He is happy with the way things are progressing now. Do you guys think I am jumping the gun about moving in? should I let more time pass? I really want to move back to LA and now I feel as though if I put those plans on hold, this might not plan out.

I am truly and terribly confused. I really do like him and he keeps telling me how much he loves me and loves the relationship we are in, but why cant he trust me enough to think I wont hurt him????? I am really starting to think that his past relationship of 7 years has really poisioned the way he understands and looks at relationships.

I really want this one to work out and hope it can.

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-10-2004
Wed, 03-10-2004 - 10:30am
I have followed your posts the way one would watch a train crashing. It's a scary awful thing, but somehow, you just can't tear yourself away from it.

Others have been blunt, and so shall I be, I think one needs to be incredibly blunt with you because you don't seem to be hearing what is absolutely obvious to everyone of us.

You know why your boyfriend keeps getting crapped on? BECAUSE HE IS A LOSER!!!! He is an immature child who would mostly likely have a relationship with any warm body that would have him - why do you like yourself so little that you would want that person to be you?

Listen, your reasoning is so dysfunctional that were you to become even a little bit self-aware you'd be horrified at the way you are carrying on. Moving just to accomodate a boyfriend who is doing NOTHING to accomodate you... Flunking classes because you are so obsessed with having a relationship as opposed to working on yourself, building your self-esteem so that you could have ANY guy you wanted (within reason, of course). It's almost like you are worried that if you make any progress in the personal development department that it will class you out of this guy's league and then you will be single again - shock horror!!

Come-on girl, get a life - relationships are great, but they are supposed to be a 'bonus' in life, not the be all and end all. You will never ever attract anybody remotely healthy or interesting until you start focussing on YOURSELF and how to gain self-esteem and do the best for you and your future - and that doesn't include moving somewhere unsuitable and compromising everything you want for your future simply to keep a boyfriend. It's sad, pathetic thinking.

I was like you once upon a time, and I ended up in a terrible marriage as a result - because he loved me soo much I was willing to overlook glaring character flaws and the marriage was a disaster. But you know what - it woke me up, I realized that I would never have a relationship worth having until I worked on myself and my issues. I have that life now - and I have a much better perspective on things. I could be dating loads of different guys right now if I just wanted a warm body next to me - but I know my worth and I'm looking for somebody worthy of me. Not hoping any old guy will have me and then worrying constantly that they're going to go off me any minute.

Really, you need to do some serious thinking here. Otherwise, you're going to wake up one day wishing like hell you'd listened and taken heed of some very valuable advice that's been offered here, instead of ploughing forward like a runaway train, convinced that you're on the right track, even when the station master is SCREAMING at you to change course.

Get help NOW.

Coolas

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-31-2003
Wed, 03-10-2004 - 10:10pm
I've read your posts too and stayed out of the discussion because you were already getting the best advice people here can give you. I have just a few extra thoughts, and maybe you will hear them:

Almost everyone has said how immature your boyfriend is. But from what I read in your posts, he is MORE realistic about your relationship than you are! At least HE realizes that it's a recipe for disaster if you move in together. That's not going to solve either of your problems. YOU need to accept that he doesn't want to live with you, and it's not the best thing for either of you. Hon, it IS possible to have a good life without this guy.

You're obviously an intelligent girl. You're in college and you want to complete your education. You do not have to keep running up and down the highway to be with a man who isn't ready, or capable, of giving you what you THINK you want in a relationship.

You CAN have the relationship you want, but try being the person you want to be FIRST.

And as far as moving to LA, I have no idea why that would be a good move for you. I was always told that "whereever you go, you take YOU with you." That means that if you have self-esteem problems or insecurities or OBSESSIONS, you will take them with you to LA. But I also believe in doing "the next best thing" for yourself. And if you believe you have a future in LA and something to look forward to, then maybe you should move there.

It's always possible that once you and your boyfriend grow up and develop more, you will come back together. But you can't wait for him.

There is no way anyone can tell you how to keep this relationship together, at this point, because by holding onto this relationship you have been neglecting your own opportunities. Don't cheat yourself and end up regretting your decision and losing time you can never get back. Many women here have told you, from their own experiences, that they see you heading in the wrong direction.

But you will do what you want to do. I hope you choose to do what's BEST for you.

God bless.

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-24-2003
Thu, 03-11-2004 - 12:53pm

I, too, have been reading your posts for a while and yes, you have been given a lot of great advice. But, you keep coming back and asking the very same questions again and that tells me that you may be reading what others have said but you haven't heard them.


Your b/f is being independent and you are becoming more and more dependent. You are losing your own identity. You are relying on him for your happiness and well-being. You have to become a whole person within yourself if you want to attract the type of person who is good for you. Just because you want to live with someone does not mean this is the right someone. Learn to live with yourself first.


One of the reasons he may be hesitating is because he is seeing the same things we see from your posts. And, the more dependent you become on him the less attractive to him you are. Sometimes two people can absolutely adore each other with time and space between them but not be good for each other when together. He has fears, you have fears and neither of you are working to overcome the fears within yourself, you are just concentrating on the other one's fears.


The fact is (and I have said this before), you cannot change him, you cannot fix him, you cannot erase his fears. The only one you can control is yourself and you would be wise to invest your time, effort and energy in mending yourself instead of worrying so much about him.


tg

 
iVillage Member
Registered: 09-21-2003
Thu, 03-11-2004 - 7:21pm
I want to reiterate one thing, I am not dependent on him. Yes, I have let things with him overwhelm me but I am trying to keep a level head in all of this. I want him to live with me because I want to help him out and also because I am getting sick and tired from driving back and forth to see him. I wish he would learn how to drive. That is starting to bother me, but I promised him one thing, I would not be out to change him and if he wanted to change then that was his perogative. I just wanted to live closer to or have him live with me so we could see each other w/o so much problems.

I think he does care for me a lot. He tells me he does and his actions do show it. He worries about my health and he tries to make sure I get my schoolwork done. Yesterday, I didnt really want to drive down to see him because I was sick. He told me that he missed me a lot and that, if I could, he really wanted to see me, so I drove down to see him. I ate dinner there (his parents like me a lot and always make me feel welcome there) and then we played computer games. I ended up staying till midnight and he wanted me to sleep over but I declined since it is hard for me to drive back in the early hours of the morning and go to work.

Last weekend, just out of the blue, he bought me some flowers. He is really a nice guy. I do have one question, can someone who is really that nice and treats me that well and tells me he loves me (he said it first, not me), etc., be afraid of a commitment with me (like living together)? I know he is dating me exclusively and he has told me he is not the cheating type. I do believe him about that.

Another question I have has to do with how we do things. In the beginning, we would sometimes do stuff with some of his friends. Now it seems like all we do is stuff with just each other. Sometimes, I miss hanging out wtih his friends. They are ok people, esp the people from the one party we went to in January. He has a friend that he used to work with, that actually has a jazz band. He had a party and my bf and I went to the party and met a lot of that guy's friends. That guy has interesting, educated, cultured friends. My bf knew most of them and I had a great time there since I could talk about things on my level. My bf was happy to see that I mingled a lot and got along well with his friends. He didnt mingle alot but kept mostly to his friend the jazz guy who had the party. His jazz friend plays with a group once a month, but my bf has said he wanted to go to one of the performances, but never made the effort. I am not saying he hides me from his friends. They all know about me. He doesnt go out much on the weekdays and on weekends we usually see each other. Why do you think he does stuff this way?

I have some friends around here and sometimes we do stuff with my friends, but I sometimes detect that my bf feels uncomfortable around my friends. They are a bunch of girls I know from college who are all going for a masters in education.

As for therapy, I want to seek that out to see why I have a tendency to doom my relationships. I am afraid to lose this guy and maybe if I seek therapy and learn what makes me act the way I do, I can stop being clingy and not jeopardize this realtinship. Although, he says everything is fine. I just wish I could trust that.

Avatar for bratgirl2002
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-01-2003
Thu, 03-11-2004 - 7:57pm
Written proof that shes never going to listen.
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 03-11-2004 - 7:59pm
Here's the thing......you want himi to be like you. You want him to drive, to hold a steady job, have a good income, pursue higher education, to become more "socially accepted, acceptable,and successful". That's what you want...you're standing on the brink of that - and you want to "drag him up to that level".

The problem is...you've stepped back a few feet from the edge of success in order to "get in line with him".

Visualize yourself at the doorway of a very successful future. And you WERE there, you're not now. You're spending way too much time and energy that you should be giving to school and work - to promotions and improvement - on making him what he's not and doesn't want to be.

But, he was about 200 yards (2 football fields) behind you in terms of independence, completion, success and security as a lifestyle. But, you looked back, saw him, stepped back the 200 yards. You now want him to get in step and in line with you.

You don't want to lose sight of that successful future that you worked hard to get that close to...and every time you look towards that future - the light is a little dimmer because you're not prioritizing it and working towards it any longer.

You didn't realize that you were always moving towards a moving entity - success - success is an upward path and it never stops. You always thought you were moving towards a fixed situation - and once you got that education, degree, financial stability and personal space - you'd be successful by default of situation. You were so almost there..and you stepped back.

You're now seeing that future fade very slowly into the distane and now you're panicked - you want to run and catch up - you were so close, but you can't leave him behind - you've invested in him.

Like a parent - you want the best for him as YOU determine it to be. You don't want the best for him as HE determines it to be. You're sure that he's just insecure, immature, hurt, and not thinking clearly and you want to bundle him up, take him into your arms, and run towards that rapidly moving away from you future that was so bright and possible for you.

You want the future....and can't get it because you won't get up and pursue it without him. And you can't have him....because he doesn't want that "pursuit, that future, that level of commitment".

You can "stand there"...and hat is precisely what you're doing, and it has you in a panicked state. The future that you envisioned and worked for is rapidly moving into the horizon and is less bright each time you look because it is further away.

You turn back to him in a panic saying "can't you see what we're missing, what we're losing, can't you understand how this makes me feel"...and he says "go ahead, pursue it, I'll stand right here, this iswhat I want, just like it is...this is good for me."

You simply refuse to "accept" that reality...that what he has is what he wants and that is all he wants.

You want him to be closer in proximity so that you can spend more time gaining ground on the now more distant 'bright future' you had planned........he wants to be where he is becuase he does not want, is not comfortable with, and will not accept "that type of future" for himself in his life.

He is encouraging you to pursue it...he's not encouraging you to leave. YOu're so worried that he'll get away that you won't move....but the reality is, if you'd go an get the education, the success and the bucks that would put him on easy street with out having any obligation to od anything ever in his life again - he'd be happy to live with you. Perhaps not marry, you might not be the best option out there...but if you'd get the education, get very successful very quick, put him in a position financially to pursue his dreams, fund his artistic career, fund his performances and his aspirationsand his dreams and allow him to come and go at will in terms of his "pursuit of his dream" and have no obligations nad restrictions on him...he'd live with you in a NY minute.

But, probably not until.

I'll say this again....his parents take such delight in you because they view you as the person who might takehim off their hands, off thier roll books, grocery list and bank draw. They're delighted to see you - independent, financially stable you come along and want him....because they do NOT want a 40-something year old wanna be living at home, with unrealistic expectations, and low-income retail job with no aspirations for the future. Believe me, they WANT you to take him off their hands.

HEre's why he won't go...he KNOWS that. Everything they do is meant to show him that in their eyes, based on his actions, his level of maturity and resonsibility - he's all of about 13 years old. And they're thinking if they treat him that way - it'll send him running into your arms and your "independent optioned lifestyle"...and they can slam the door and at some point, all loving (yes LOVING) parents do slam the door on a child that will not mature and grow up and becojme self-reliant. They slam the door so that the kid faces the world, gets a future, and becomes emotionally mature and secure.....so that they can open the door at some point and look at him with respect and admiration for who he made himself into.

His parents aren't loving enough to do that...they're hoping someone like you wil come along and scoop him up.

So, I'll say this again tooo....if you really want him to live with you...you need to have a discussion with his parents. He's a little boy, he's at their beck and call and behest and providership, and he's got to do what they say in order to stay in good wtih them and potentially benefit via the alliance.

Make an arrangement with his parents...that they will insist that he "sleep over with you" for a month - move in, see how it goes, and if he doesn't like it - he can come home and everything will be just like it's always been. He'll be allowed to come and go, they'll treat him like a 13 year old at times, he'll be allowed to keep his dead-end, no future job and unrealistic expectations. But, in order to have the option to stay - he's got to move in for a month with you.

In doing this, realize something....if at the end of the month he's no longer working, he's not contributing, he's not pursuing his dreams, you're just as sick and tired of driving him around, and having him lay around - as you were sick of driving to see him....it's NOT going to be your option o say "you have to go home to your mommy and daddy." That is NOT likely a bargain that they will strike with you prior to his leaving, or post-leaving for that matter.

The deal they're going to make iwth you is for "their" benefits - not yours. It's to get him out of their house, out of their pockets and from under their feet. And as long as he's happy living with you -he'll be allowed to sleep over as long as he wants, with no obligations. They're not going to interfere with how you "parent" him.....they're not going to get in the middle of your fights and say "well, she took you in, you ought to do right and marry her".

This deal iwth them is for THEIR benefit - they get shed of him...and it's going to get you what you believe that you want - which is living with him.

If you strike the deal, and he says he'll do it because he has to or else they'll kick him out...he easily might live there the month, go home based on "I'm not ready for this" - and the relationship will end. He won't have come there wanting to be with you - he'll have come there so that he can go back and live at home ad finitum without a hassle at the present moment.

Or, you could strike the deal and he lives there ad nauseum ad finitum with you - while you get a full realization of what the phrase "you don't control what anybody else does or wants" hits home with you right between the eyes. Because he's going to do preciselyl what he does at home...with you, and the difference is that it's going to be on your dime, on your time, and you're going to be just as run ragged trying to keep up with him living wtih you - as you are living 2 hours away from him.

But, since you're having absolutely no success in convincing him he needs ot live with you - talk to his parents. I'm serious. I did this with the 3rd husband in a way. It worked for less htan a year, and a miserable one at that. We were already living together two years and I wanted a proposal - I wanted to be married (again, go figure - I was so dysfunctional back then!). And I knew his parents were afraid that us just living together, with me increasingly antsy about this lack of marriage proposal and ring, would have us fighting and him coming to live back at home. Because he worked transitionally and just at his convenience, and I paid our bills and had a child and if anybody was "leaving" it was him if push came to shove. I had a job, paid the bills, and established a routine for my child where we were....he had no job, marginal income, and no way to pay the bills if I did the leaving. So his parents KNEW that he'd come back home to live at 35 - with this irresponsible and immature attitude towards his future if we split up. So, I talked to his mother, who really did love me appropriately and she begged me NOT to pursue this because he wouldn't do right by me while his dad was thrilled and delighted to help me pursue this marriage proposal via this ultimatum. We went there for a holiday event, they lived 50 miles away, and during that event with just us present, his dad told him for the millionth time that he ought to do right by me, and the child - and marry us. He again expressed ALL his reservations about marriage - that he didn't have a job, he didn't know what he wanted in his future, he didn't know where he was headed in life and marrying prior to having all that established was doing nobody any favors (the man was rational for one iota of a second!). And his dad said "well, Tom, you should marry her, she's paying the bills, she's holding a job, she's a responsible person (little did they know what was to come years later!) and she's got a child. So son, if you don't marry her within four months, that car that you're driving in my name won't be in oyur possession and $300 a month we've been contributing for your portion of living expenses will come to a grinding halt."

tom was in a catch 22...he didn't want to marry me, he didn't want to marry at all, he liked the freedom of livign together because it meant he could leave if he wanted/needed to - ifI wasn't beneficial enough to him by his standards. But marriage was an entirely different proposition. Unrealistically, I still expected that when people got married they "changed their values and standards" - I truly believed that aisle/altar/hymn would translate out to "I'll alter him". But, he was in a catch 22...if he didn't marry me in four months - what he had would be taken away and then very likely I'd kick him out due to lack of funding and transportation and he'd be without any benefits from anybody. So, he reluctantly agreed to marry, I picked out the rings nad paid, I funded the ceremony by getting a THIRD job, and the day of the wedding told my best friend I was making the biggest mistake of my life....she urged me NOT to get out of the limo if I believed it. I said I've paid for everything and I'm going thru with this, it'll work out somehow. It didn't....from the second he said "I do" he was resentful, frustrated, anxiety-ridden, fearful, and panicked about what a "huge mistake he'd made compromising his life." And just as quickly as I said "I do" - very literally right there on the steps of the little building where we had the ceremony - I KNEW I had made at least one of the biggest mistakes to date of my life (more were to come that eclipsed this by a long shot, however!). After the ceremony, at the reception - he refused to participate in gift opening or picture taking, he sat around the keg iwth his buddies and got outrageously drunk, he had to be taken home by his parents to our house, and he was in some state of inebriation or hung over for a month....while I wasn't much better but I had a job to do, bills to pay, and a child to tend to. At the conclusion of that month we were screaming at what a terrible mistake we'd made - I said he hadn't changed like he said he would, and accurately enough he said he never promised to change and had no intention of it. I did realize in a moment of sober horror that he was right - he'd never promised to change, I had assumed he'd change becuase his status has changed, and I realized right then he was saying that was a stupid assumption on my part. Within 9 months we were separated, within one year we were divorced...i had to rush that along, I was in desperate need of a divorce in order to ensure that lovely dysfunctional and totally emotionally abusive 4th husband didn't "get away".

You are so headed here, you have no clue.

Erin

quickblade14@hotmail.com

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-12-2003
Thu, 03-11-2004 - 10:32pm
You just wrote what I was thinking... thank you!

 

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-10-2004
Fri, 03-12-2004 - 6:13am
Just keep burying your head in the sand. That way you really will wake up one day having thrown away all your valuable opportunities, just so that you didn't have to be single. And I absolutely guarantee that you will not end up with this guy - and on the off chance that you do - be prepared to edure much misery. Be prepared to watch all your dreams and hopes and aspirations for the future disappear into thin air. that's what will happen with this man. I would bet large amounts of money on this.

Please take heed of the advice that's been offered here. Right now, I'm having trouble believing that you are smart enough to go to college based on your emotional stupidity. It'd be one thing if you weren't asking for guidance and advice, but you are - you have received it in abundance - fantastic, solid advice, and yet you simply bury your head in the sand and pursue something you will cringe about five years down the road, you'll want to beat yourself around the head for having pursued something so dysfunctional and detrimental to your personal success and future.

P*ss away your future and you'll have nobody but yourself to blame.

Good luck - you're going to need it!

Coolas

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-19-2004
Fri, 03-12-2004 - 9:16am
Do you EVEN READ our replies? It's just AMAZING how you ask for our advice and prove you are UNWILLING to listen to it by asking YET ANOTHER question about keeping this relationship going!

WE ALL THINK YOU SHOULD DUMP HIM AND THE SOONER THE BETTER! WHY CAN'T YOU GET IT INTO YOUR HEAD?

You are doomed. I no longer have any doubts. You aren't going to get it. You are going to waste years and years of your life trying to convince yourself that you don't want to change this guy, when he is so clearly not what you need or want, not willing to bend or compromise, not capable of reaching your level of ambition or education, and so on.

But I'm just wasting my breath, aren't I.

Photobucket

Avatar for bratgirl2002
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-01-2003
Fri, 03-12-2004 - 9:49am
though I agree wholeheartedly with you, allow me to transcribe your words into how the OP is hearing it...

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah and blah....(think Charlie Brown teacher voice for full effect)