How/why am I always social director?

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-05-2004
How/why am I always social director?
11
Wed, 02-11-2004 - 4:39pm
I've got a problem that's recurring. So I know I'm part of the problem. It's happened again with a guy I've been dating 6 months now.

Background: I'm in my 40s, no kids, divorced over a decade. So I've been on my own a long time and am very independent. My personality is not aggressive or even all that outgoing, though. All in all I'm pretty easy to get along with, at least that's what everyone tells me. Here's the problem.

After the first few months of dating, it seems I always end up as social director. Ex: he wants me to make the reservations, buy the tickets (even if he is happy to pay me back) and in general, make the decisions about how we spend a lot of our free time. I'm utterly sick of this.

Can anyone advise me on what - exactly - to say to him? I don't know why I should be the one to make the plans and arrangements, but he **wants** me to. He tells me I'm "so good at it", bla bla bla. I'm getting more and more annoyed about this. Before it escalates into a fight, would really appreciate any advice on how to tactfully but firmly tell him I am NOT available to do this. Thanks

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 02-11-2004 - 4:50pm
Tell him that you perceive that you're putting all the work and effort and investment into the relationship in terms of time...and you're not going to do it anymore.

If he doesn't want to take some of the responsibility and effort of "dating you" -then YOU stop dating him.

the bad news is...you've probably been in this dynamic all along..you impressing, pleasing, placating, and easing his way into seeing you - and now you're just more "aware" that is the reality of the situation. And if he wanted to do the pursuing and effort - he'd have done it to begin with. He might compromise now and do it - but he might not.

Don't make demands, just tell him how it is and be prepared to do whatever meets your needs and standards now...not his.

Erin

quickblade14@hotmail.com

Avatar for unsure4now
iVillage Member
Registered: 07-02-2003
Wed, 02-11-2004 - 4:59pm
Hey krn! I think so that this doesn't escalate into a huge fight, first thing you need to do is think about what to say, and how to say it. Men don't respond to whining, nagging, yelling, etc. I've learned the hard way!

I would stop making your joint plans, and tell him how you feel- as calmly as possible, without being defensive. Maybe you could say something like "It would just mean a lot to me if maybe YOU made our plans the next time," etc., etc., etc.

This could blow up into a huge argument if you don't come off right. I've made enough mistakes to know! : )

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-31-2003
Wed, 02-11-2004 - 6:03pm
First of all, I do not agree with Erin's assumption that you have been doing all the pursuing of guys and assuming ALL responsibility for the relationship. All you said was that you end up being the "social director" ... meaning you pick the movie, find the restaurant and make the reservations, etc. I have been in this position myself.

Here's the scenario: A man asks me out, I say yes, and then he asks me where I want to go. I say "let's go to dinner." He says "Great!", but then he doesn't know what restaurant to go to. This doesn't necessarily mean that he is not interested in putting any effort into the relationship. It means that this is a guy who isn't as "cosmopolitan" as I am when it comes to fine dining. The same could be true for choosing hotels, picking concert seats, etc.

Case-in-point: I was involved with a very sweet guy who worshipped the ground I walked on. He would do ANYTHING to please me. But he was not confident in his ability to choose a good restaurant or bottle of wine. I complained about having to make all the arrangements, so he tried to do it on his a few times. Guess what? His selections were NOT up to my standards. So I took care of making most of the reservations, etc. He paid for everything and we got along fine, on that score. Anything I needed... all I had to do was ask him and he supplied it. My problem with him was that he became TOO attached too soon. He was very accommodating, but just not my cup of tea.

I don't know what is happening in your relationships. But if you are the one asking men out, you should STOP. Let them ask for your phone number, and then let them suggest the date. And once a man asks you out, don't volunteer to make any of the arrangements. See what he is capable of doing first. In terms of the guy you are seeing now, you should tell him that you are tired of making all the arrangements and you want him to plan the next date. If he refuses to even try, he is probably just lazy, and you don't want a lazy person anyway. If he does make the arrangements and you don't like his taste in movies and restaurants, you might find yourself back in the social director seat, again. It's up to you whether this is asking too much, if everything else about him is A-OK.

Hope this helps.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 02-11-2004 - 6:52pm
To clarify...I didn't say she pursued him. I said when he was pursuing her and knocking on her door...she ushered him in, offered him a beverage, put up his feet, changed the TV channel - did everything to make him impressed, pleased and comfortable.

If he stayed there, receiving all that - just for knocking on the door of her life - then that is what he thinks a great relationship is all about. his needs, wants and standards being prioritizd by someone else while he does very little.

If she did this and it made him uncomfortable because that is NOT what he considers a great relationship - he'd have communicated with her and if it couldn't be resolved, he'd have left.

I'm not saying she DID do this...I'm saying that it is a possibility this is what has happened.

Erin

quickblade14@hotmail.com

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-31-2003
Thu, 02-12-2004 - 12:53am
I just think it's more helpful to try and address the problem that the poster posted, without jumping off into a sweeping assumption that she is "putting all the work and effort and investment into the relationship." She didn't say that, you did. We don't know anything else about their relationship other than what she wrote, and that is that she is fed up with making all the social arrangements.




iVillage Member
Registered: 08-20-2003
Thu, 02-12-2004 - 8:45am
I think Erin may be right. I've been guilty of this before and gotten the same results as krn2004 described. I think she should just hold off on making plans for a couple of weeks, get busy with other things, and see how he responds. Is he willing to make an effort?

Texas Rose

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-05-2004
Thu, 02-12-2004 - 9:21am
Jilly/Erin,

Thanks for your posts. You both were on point in many ways.

Jilly - I never ask men out, call them, or pursue them in the beginning. Later of course it becomes more 50/50 but I'm in many ways a "Rules" girl. So this is not an issue with me. In fact, I've often posted here about how vitally important it is to let the man/wait for the man to pursue you.

Erin - Your advice is always good. You are keenly perceptive and often cut to the chase with your advice, which I appreciate. I also know you've had tons of experience with issues such as co-dependence/self-esteem/accommodation, etc. You are partially correct in your last post that I "invited him into my life and made him comfortable". But I was not totally accommodating in every way and I certainly have not done ALL of the pursuing and all of the work.

"If he stayed there, receiving all that - just for knocking on the door of her life - then that is what he thinks a great relationship is all about." And it's my fault if he did that, and I know that. Trouble is.... there's no reason really for me NOT to do it. Not to be so accepting of him. That's my overall nature. I take people (totally), or leave them. I never try to change them. So they always feel real comfortable with me and enjoy my companionship if nothing else. I've often wondered if I shouldn't consciously try and stop being so accepting of people to avoid a potential problem. But I'm not sure I can.

Realize that he and I are not just dating, we're in a relationship. IE, it's just assumed by both of us that we spend our weekends together, no matter what we do. We're way beyond the asking-for-a-date stage.

We had a talk last night. I think one of the problems may be that to some degree, I'm trying to turn him into something he's not. You see, it's simply more fun for him if WE make decisions, reservations and plans together -- as a team -- not separately. And many times I've been enthusiastic about doing that. But recently, I just wanted him to deal with it all and take over. He didn't. Part of my mistake was in not telling him I just wanted him to take over and deal with it.

It's still too soon to know if overall and long term we're the right match. But this recent exercize is allowing me to learn who he is and is not, and how he'd like the two of us to "operate" together. I realize it's up to me to decide whether his concept and mine are compatible enough to make it work.

Thanks for your posts.

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-05-2004
Thu, 02-12-2004 - 9:35am
PS Jilly - I understand very well the situation you were in with the man you talked about. You're absolutely right about the fact that sometimes one person is just better at making reservations, etc. than the other. I'm the first serious relationship he's had after a very long marriage. I know a whole lot more about things to do, where to go, etc. in our city. So this is why I'm easily the one in the driver's seat.

So it's useless for me to wish he'd just overnight become more sophisticated about these things. He can't. On the other hand, he *could* start being more pro-active about researching restaurants and events in our city, and that's what I'd wish he'd do **on his own without my prompting him or asking him to**.

And I don't think he will because that's not his basic personality. So we're back to maybe I'm trying to turn him into someone else. I also know that I should (and therefore will) accept responsibility for determining whether he's OK (for me) as he is.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 02-12-2004 - 10:50am
The story of the cow and the bull.......

The lady cow wanted a bull to call her own....she walked around the acreage, found an ideal and pristine piece of pasture, called a contractor, erected a fence, added a scratching post, hot and cold running water troughs, and made arrangements for daily "treats" to be delivered to the gate...which was always open.

She scratched on the post, she ate the treats, she ambled around the fenced area, she rested...she waited for "THE bull" - talking to every bull that came along. Letting htem come in and enjoy the amenities in her life...and leaving whenever the mood suited them. She was often "disappointed" that they didn't want to stay, or that they didn't return to stay - just to visit. After each visit - she found her pasture a little trampled, the hot water dripping, the cold water running full open, she found the scratching post a little pushed to one side...and she had to fix these things post-haste at her own expense - so that she'd again have a convenient and comfortable "pasture".

A very large bull came along, ambling over the vast pasture acreage....and saw her tidy, homey,convenient, and well-optioned "home". the gate was open.....she was sitting on her hay bale and invited him in. In he came, he scratched, he ate, he napped on the hay bales, he cooled himself in the running water, he took a hot shower the next morning and ambled out the gate...to return again each evening. The cow was delighted - someone that would finally "stick around".

He was comfortable there, she made it easy, convenient, comfortable, and beneficial for him to return...and he didn't perceive there were changes for him to make to his goals, his attitude, his approach to life in general. He was coming and going at will, and she was delighted about it.

But...she wasn't that pleased overall. She was delighted that he wanted to stick around, come and go, be in the picture of the pasture, she was enjoying having someone to scratch with and enjoy the treats with and share the nightly hay bale with...but this coming and going at his convenience, with little contribution on his part tothe maintenance or upgrade of the pasture, with little apparent emphasis on her needs...what was up with this?

The next morning...for the first time, he found the gate CLOSED when he went to leave. She said "we need to talk" - this prioritizing your needs your goals, your priorities on my part has to stop (never sure why the cow was telling him she needed to change as if he were going to make it happen or approve of it!) and you need to change and start prioritizing my needs and wants and requirements, too. In that she'd never had any before - his statement was accurate "okay, I will, what are they?" Relieved, she opened the gate, gave him a key and proceeded to believe that her needs were now "okay" to state and expect to be met - without discussing with them specifically what they were and ifhe'd meet them.

He came and went for a few days, bliss reigned supreme....and then the cow realized the "same old agenda" was in play. She was doing what she did best - make his life easy - and he was doing waht he did best - come and go at will. Again, the next morning a closed gate and another discussion. Same discussion, same result.....the cycle continued.

Finally, one night he comes home, tired and expecting comfort as per usual....and he finds stony silence. She's had enough of being ignored and neglected and doing his bidding and prioritizing him above herself...she wants the same treatment from him towards her - that she's been giving to him. Slight problem, if he'd ever wanted to do that - he'd have done it without her request or insistence but at his own instigation, and quite likley if he had the knowledge, ability, assets, willingness and options to do this - he wouldn't have been in need of comfort, security, ease, and benefits and convenience from someone else becuase he had none of that in his life prior to meeting her. She slams the gate shut and locks it and her anger at his "lack of change after his promises" is at an all time high - and his frustration level with the daily activities of life is also on a high burn....two high flames meet, crash, collide, impact one another.....and he crashes out of the gate, destroying the fence in part, and never returns - she's devastated. The lost time, the destruction that requires her attention, the lost "future" she'd been planning.....oh, the loss of it all, and the emotions it inspires.

Someone with a really good sense of humor (because back then I sure did not have one) said fences CAN serve two purposes.

If you work to make what is inside your fence a great place to be by your standards and efforts and definitions - you likely won't hold the gate open, letting everybody traipse thru and use your amenities. You'll have the gate closed, and if they want to visit they can do so with you over the fence (you on your side - him on his) and after awhile YOU can go out and explore with him the "unfenced pasture" while you get to know them and see if you want them "inside your fence".

they pointed out to me that I'd been using a fence to keep people in...and it was the very people that were "kicking the snot outta me" in the process of getting out of the fence, once I wanted "changed" by offering an "open gate/open acceptance" policy.

She said I needed to stop thinking of a fence as something to keep people in....because that kept me believing that it was holding me in, and back from enjoying life and people and events and opportunities -I was so busy making it nice for people to want it - I'd become a prisoner to my own fence.

She said use it like a boundary...which is what YOU enforce by keeping people out - until they meet your standards, share your values, and show on their own instigation that meeting your needs appropriately is important to them.

She pointed out if I'd conduct myself at all times by my values, standards, principles, and ethics...I'd have no problem telling people they couldn't come into my pasture which would be enforcing the boundary - that fence would be a boundary against the negative - it would not be the method by which I or others were "held in" to my own destruction.

I heard that analogy and laughed.....I heard someone say that a relationship is an entity in which osmeone must invest in order to have "vested interest". And that someone who was not willing or required to spend time, effort, money, and communication with you - was not investing in you and had no vested interest in the relationship. They could take it or leave it - if it benefitted them they'd be there, if it didn't - they'd walk away without a problem because "they did not invest in it because it was not of value to them".

Erin

quickblade14@hotmail.com




iVillage Member
Registered: 01-05-2004
Thu, 02-12-2004 - 11:05am
Gosh that was entertaining. Thanks for taking the time to write all of it.

"she made it easy, convenient, comfortable, and beneficial for him to return...and he didn't perceive there were changes for him to make to his goals, his attitude, his approach to life in general... (Might I add) .... *if* he wanted to stay in this cow's pasture for the long term".

This is the crux of where I'm at with him and I'll learn as time goes by. Thanks for the great story.

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