I just read another relationship book
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| Sat, 07-07-2007 - 6:18pm |
Today, I read "Why Men Marry Bitches".
Again, Ms. Argov does list some nice ideas for women in a pinch. However, I have 2 problems with this book and "Why Men Love Bitches":
1)90% of what is described as "bitch" in her books is my natural personality and has been my personality as long as I can remember. My problem is this: over time I noticed that men didn't take my statements about how I wished to be treated seriously (like with a wink) or take my "bye byes" seriously. They continued to call or asked if I wanted to go shopping with them (inappropriate responses to my requests or statements) and now I understand why...they thought I was playing a game. I dont' play games with a man's mind. But...these books or anything similar to the "Bitch" series is going to actually ruin relationships..REAL relationships...because men are going to think that when a woman stands up for herself it is only a game or a ruse or a ploy to snag them or to stay married to them. I'm sure men have read these books and now relationships have been reduced to tricks and ploys and every person is going to make sure that they are on top.
Men may love games...it keeps them interesting in dating I guess. That is not what I am looking for in a dating partner. Of course we all put our best foot forward when we meet anyone...even a friend. But that is not what I am talking about.
In the book, it is stated that men like to test women. These tests include: pulling back after sex, cancelling dates, glancing at other women, teasing or banter and showing up late. The reason behind the "tests" is to see how we handle those situations - to see if we maintain control over our emotions. If I want to participate in a clinical study...I'll sign up for one, thank you. If a guy wants to turn dating into an experiment or desires to become a researcher...he need not call me...ever. If a guy tries to use jealousy to see if a woman cares...that is antiquated thinking. But...men admit they love seeing jealousy on a woman's face. Just because I react to a guy being rude or completely unpolished (looking at other women) that doesnt mean I care about him...it means I care about ME. So.. a newsflash for men. If a guy wants to do the "pull back routine" then I assume he is emotionally vacant and I am better off without him - so...based on these "bitch" rules...he pulls back and I pull off. Now he is "intrigued". Unfortunately for him, I will have no interest in rekindling anything because I will lose interest in a man like that very quickly. If there is nothing inside, then there is nothing attracting me to him. Bantering and teasing is fine in small amounts, but shouldnt be the mainstay of communication between two people. Showing up late and cancelling tells me he isn't into me, so again, I lose interest.
2) The book draws an impossible image for a woman to achieve and maintain in order to attract and keep a guy. The book keeps repeating how a guy doesn't want a woman to need him. That she can self maintain. To an extent I agree with this. A person (man or woman) should be able to be responsible, take care of emergencies, and develop a sense of self separate from a SO. However, to project an image of not needing a man is also prescribing a cold relationship with a man. There is nothing wrong with needing a shoulder to cry on, emotional support, friendship, a confidante and so on. It seems as though men dont' want to be needed in that way anymore, based on these books. It is okay to need someone. If a man expects a woman to go at it alone if scared, or in need of help or needing comfort, then he is cruel and no one I want to date.
I am going through a very difficult time right now, being the victim of a horrific crime. I reached out to people and no one contacted me personally to lend me a shoulder or ease my mind and heart by stating that they would help me put the perps behind bars or let me know that they are at least trying to help. Any little bit would have helped. But everyone chose to be cold and cruel. Those who I reached out to and chose to ignore my terrified hand being extended to them..should never call me. I will rip them a new a$$hole. I needed their support during the crime not once I am free from this crime. I wont need anyone at that point. I needed them before. So I will naturally, again, portray that attitude...not needing anyone. It is not because I am adopting a book's ideas to attract men to me. It is just a coincidence.
But think about how many relationships will be destroyed before they even get off the ground because of these relationship books. The emotional intimacy is squelched before the two people complete the first date.

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May I extend my sympathies in regards to your crime (assault?) I was mugged at knifepoint in a hotel room when I was 20, but I was very, very lucky. However, I was terrified for 6 months. I can only imagine how I would feel if he had hurt me.
Anyway, in regards to the "Bitches" book. I have read just about every book on the shelf about dating and relationships, but not this one. I think your statement "The emotional intimacy is squelched before the two people complete the first date." is right on.
Here's how I see it: I think in courtship there is a certain amount of "game playing" that is OK. I honestly do think men enjoy a challenge at first, but I think one can take it too far. I know I have blown it before by being too available, and pushing for comitment too soon. I would have done well to be more mysterious in the past (you know, when men actually asked me out). But I see a lot of that as self-esteem issues (at least for me). I felt like if I didn't pursue or make things happen, that they would forget about me. So sad really. I would have done much better if I had not returned a few phone calls and acted more confidently. But I also think that in the beginning of any potential relationship, neither party really knows if it will become a relationship, so I think it's wise to have a bit of push-pull and distance. But too much of that I think signals trouble ahead.
Having said all of that, I don't think game-playing is a valid strategy for a long-term relationship. Who could keep that up? The secret to long term is a true, intimate connection. But I think both parties need to be emotionally mature and have dealt with dysfunctional baggage. You can play all of the games you want, but if you haven't dealt with serious issues, it will doom every relationship you get into.
I think a far better book, and from a man's perspective is "Mars and Venus on a Date." I didn't like his first book "Me are from Mars..." but I really liked this one. It really cleared up a lot of questions I had. Of course, it is just one man's opinion, but something seemed very true about it.
And just for fun, you might enjoy "Mama Gena's School of Womanly Arts."
Both of your posts have me going..."huh?" Did you intend to post your two above posts for someone else? Because nothing that you posted in either post makes sense to why I originally posted:
"Oh slow down just stop being so uptight you have got men all wrong sweet is better than being a pain though you might disagree with me but who cares!!" ---> I didn't put men down...I was saying that the "Bitch" series was not a great book to read if you really want to have a relationship
"You will figure it all out about your own way with men when you are all alone."
-----> I am alone and I didn't say I was dating anyone.
"Your Blog is not real"---> I don't have a blog and I never mentioned a blog in my original post.
"you act too lonely or bored stop this why you can" ----> HUH?
"Move to the beach and start living not fighting and to get the love you want !!!"
----> I never mentioned anything about the beach and I dont wish to live by the beach and I am not fighting with anyone...I am not dating anyone.
I am sorry to hear you had such an awful experience. I have been reading some of your post and you seem like a very level headed person, with so much to give friendship or boyfriend
I hope it all works out for you :)
Thanks for your input. As far as "Men are From Mars Women are From Venus", I thought Gray oversimplified men and women and how they deal with things and each other. I have not read the other book "Mars and Venus on A Date". The "Mama Gena's" book looks like fun.
Many women do pursue men, but not out of self-esteem issue (or so I thought), but because we are "equal" and it shouldn't matter who initiates romance. But to men it does. It is silly, but that is how it is. And no matter how much we try to change their (men) thinking, they have to want to alter it for REAL change to occur in dating.
There is always a little push-pull initially, like you said. There is also playful game playing but that is easy to spot. But this nonsense about pulling back after you finally have sex just so see if the woman can hold her emotions together is b.s.
As far as the "Bitches" books, it is tough enough out there to be a bitch, but who wants to be a cold bitch? Because that is what is going to happen to women who apply these books to their lives and relationships.
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which is why all these relationship and self help books should be taken with a grain of salt. There is no one-size fits all answer and many people who read some of this stuff use it that way. I'm thinking very specifically of hte HJNTIY book recently....
I've read a lot - and the ones I tend to refer to others are the ones that prompt you to think for yourself not tell you how to think (which is why they are selling books!) - I mean come on, we all REALLY know when someone is interested in us and when they are not. But our emotional neediness and insecurity causes us to deny what we know JUST to get or keep a man's attention.
When you are honoring your own truth and being your real'self' you don't play games, you don't 'chase' men, you don't put up with poor treatment, you don't sell yourself out with sex and you don't have all this drama like gets posted here. YOu are happy with who you are, and you don't worry what others think about you. And you are happy and content with your life no matter what your relationship status might be.
While I enjoy reading and can often find something useful in most things - when you trust your own inner guidance system, you don't need anyone else to tell you what to do/think/feel/be in any given circumstance. Unfortunately, with the pandemic of no/low self esteem - there more wanting to be told how to think/act/feel/be than not.
Toni
"Unfortunately, with the pandemic of no/low self esteem - there more wanting to be told how to think/act/feel/be than not."---> aha...you have touched upon another topic...people wanting to be told how to think or feel without using any reason or logic or self interpretation to determine if it is right for them or..if it will cause more problems later. What happened to cause this? I find this seeping into all areas of life, not just relationships or connected to no/low self esteem.
"HJNTIY book recently...." ---> what is this book?
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