I just read another relationship book
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| Sat, 07-07-2007 - 6:18pm |
Today, I read "Why Men Marry Bitches".
Again, Ms. Argov does list some nice ideas for women in a pinch. However, I have 2 problems with this book and "Why Men Love Bitches":
1)90% of what is described as "bitch" in her books is my natural personality and has been my personality as long as I can remember. My problem is this: over time I noticed that men didn't take my statements about how I wished to be treated seriously (like with a wink) or take my "bye byes" seriously. They continued to call or asked if I wanted to go shopping with them (inappropriate responses to my requests or statements) and now I understand why...they thought I was playing a game. I dont' play games with a man's mind. But...these books or anything similar to the "Bitch" series is going to actually ruin relationships..REAL relationships...because men are going to think that when a woman stands up for herself it is only a game or a ruse or a ploy to snag them or to stay married to them. I'm sure men have read these books and now relationships have been reduced to tricks and ploys and every person is going to make sure that they are on top.
Men may love games...it keeps them interesting in dating I guess. That is not what I am looking for in a dating partner. Of course we all put our best foot forward when we meet anyone...even a friend. But that is not what I am talking about.
In the book, it is stated that men like to test women. These tests include: pulling back after sex, cancelling dates, glancing at other women, teasing or banter and showing up late. The reason behind the "tests" is to see how we handle those situations - to see if we maintain control over our emotions. If I want to participate in a clinical study...I'll sign up for one, thank you. If a guy wants to turn dating into an experiment or desires to become a researcher...he need not call me...ever. If a guy tries to use jealousy to see if a woman cares...that is antiquated thinking. But...men admit they love seeing jealousy on a woman's face. Just because I react to a guy being rude or completely unpolished (looking at other women) that doesnt mean I care about him...it means I care about ME. So.. a newsflash for men. If a guy wants to do the "pull back routine" then I assume he is emotionally vacant and I am better off without him - so...based on these "bitch" rules...he pulls back and I pull off. Now he is "intrigued". Unfortunately for him, I will have no interest in rekindling anything because I will lose interest in a man like that very quickly. If there is nothing inside, then there is nothing attracting me to him. Bantering and teasing is fine in small amounts, but shouldnt be the mainstay of communication between two people. Showing up late and cancelling tells me he isn't into me, so again, I lose interest.
2) The book draws an impossible image for a woman to achieve and maintain in order to attract and keep a guy. The book keeps repeating how a guy doesn't want a woman to need him. That she can self maintain. To an extent I agree with this. A person (man or woman) should be able to be responsible, take care of emergencies, and develop a sense of self separate from a SO. However, to project an image of not needing a man is also prescribing a cold relationship with a man. There is nothing wrong with needing a shoulder to cry on, emotional support, friendship, a confidante and so on. It seems as though men dont' want to be needed in that way anymore, based on these books. It is okay to need someone. If a man expects a woman to go at it alone if scared, or in need of help or needing comfort, then he is cruel and no one I want to date.
I am going through a very difficult time right now, being the victim of a horrific crime. I reached out to people and no one contacted me personally to lend me a shoulder or ease my mind and heart by stating that they would help me put the perps behind bars or let me know that they are at least trying to help. Any little bit would have helped. But everyone chose to be cold and cruel. Those who I reached out to and chose to ignore my terrified hand being extended to them..should never call me. I will rip them a new a$$hole. I needed their support during the crime not once I am free from this crime. I wont need anyone at that point. I needed them before. So I will naturally, again, portray that attitude...not needing anyone. It is not because I am adopting a book's ideas to attract men to me. It is just a coincidence.
But think about how many relationships will be destroyed before they even get off the ground because of these relationship books. The emotional intimacy is squelched before the two people complete the first date.

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Actually I do believe its connected with low/no self esteem at the core. I mean think about it, if you believed or trusted yourself to know and do what is best for yourself, you might bounce ideas off others but you basically decide for yourself what course of action to take.
If you are blindly following someone else - then you have given them control over your - maybe to not have to be responsible?? and that is being a sheep - not thinking just blindly following someone else'd idea of what's right - come to think of it - that type of blind following is what happens after devastating events - like wars - npeople are hopeless aand see anything as better than what they have. But again, the core of it is - an unwillingness to live consciously and suceed or fail on their own merits. Mediocrity does this - integrity does not.
HJNTIY = He's just not that into you: made the rounds BIG time a couple years ago and became the catch phrase to deal with all disappointments. Some merit to the thought behind it - but it takes responsibility off of the women who chase men who aren't right for them or whom they really don't like simply to have a man. There is a counterpoint book called :Face it you're just not that into him either" that was quite fun.
Toni
Actually, I found "He's Just Not That Into You" quite on target and insightful. Yes, it was written in a light and breezy way, but there was some real meat to that book. To me anyway. I wish I had read it (and taken it to heart) when I was 17. It would have saved me sooooo much time.
Now when I hear women pondering why a man she had sex with hasn't called her yet, or why he says he's busy with work, etc., I'll think "HJNTIY."
My two cents.
I see what you mean.
"If you are blindly following someone else - then you have given them control over your - maybe to not have to be responsible?? and that is being a sheep - not thinking just blindly following someone else'd idea of what's right - come to think of it - that type of blind following is what happens after devastating events - like wars - npeople are hopeless aand see anything as better than what they have."
--> maybe that is what is going on out there...people following blindly...especially since 9/11. People follow books with half baked relationship and self help advice. They follow corrupt govts. They dont even notice when their shoes dont fit right. Have you seen how steep the arches are on our shoes? The arches of many shoes now start behind our foot's arch almost back by the heel and then women wonder why they get fallen arches or hammer toes because the toes are smooshed into the front of the shoe.
"There is a counterpoint book called :Face it you're just not that into him either" that was quite fun." --> LOL.
If you like to live consciously and succeed and fail on your own merits then you'll like this quote by Theodore Roosevelt:
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, who strives valiantly; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, and spends himself in a worth cause; who at the best knows the triumph of high achievement; and who at the worst; if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that is place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat."
yes - I've always like that quote.
A book that sounds quite good to me is "Me on Top" written by an editor for some women's mag - I browsed it one day at B&N while killing time - I likely will get it - just haven't been back in. But it looked good - hitting what I think "Bitches" meant to but not as coldly.
Basically - be who you are, do what you like and how you like it and do no harm to yourself or others in the process. A creedo I can definitely live by!
Toni
Dear Snafu. Relationship books make me uneasy. I have read many articles on i village and i have read Catch Him Keep Him - Chris Carter. Basically what they all say - veiled and dressed up in different ways is common sense, don't sleep with the guy too soon (yes I agree with this despite being anything but a prude) don't appear too eager (in other words - take it easy and relax) don't answer all calls (this in my opinion is hog wash, don't always be available (yes you should have your own life an interests even if you marry the guy)
As such, why do we need a bunch of books to tell us these things? Do we really know the credentials of those who feed us all of this? what is their relationship success?
I think deep down we all know the answers to the basics of dating in the initial stages - and I feel we should see the early stages as we would see any friendship platonic or not. The hard part starts when you go beyond the first dates which for me are pretty clinical and you start to get to know the person - this is where dynamics of someone's personality make-up kick in, not to mention their prior experiences which have moulded their inner view and how this relates to the world. This is where we have have friends to to help us see things from the outise looking in.
In days gone by, did our parents and grandparents have relationship books to tell them how to relate to their SO?
All of this is just my humble opinion
Hi Snafu, and all...
Snafu, I'm sorry you're going through a hard time. I hope you're able to heal and feel more healthy very soon. :) May you find support on the boards and in real life. :)
This thread caught my eye - I've read quite a few relationship books myself. For me, I've learned what works is to take what I specifically need from the book.
For example/s...
Why Men Love Bitches - Before I read this book, years ago, I was a pushover. I was too nice. Without realizing it, I'd adopt all of a guy's interests and do anything to please them. This is because I had no idea who I was. I was in high school or college, still finding my way. What I took from reading this book was that I needed to put myself first. If I follow my heart and am able to be independent, I will never be disappointed.
HJNTIY - I'd always look for reasons why a guy was acting shady. I'd make excuses and tell myself that they were just "scared" or "busy". While I think some things are overexaggerated in this book, (this isn't an actual quote, but some things I interpreted as, "if he says he'll call at 8:30 and he calls at 8:40, he's just not that into you..) What I did learn from this book is to communicate in order to get answers. If I don't like the answers, it is my life and I may go.
How to Succeed with Men - Going into reading this book, I was unsure about give and take. While I feel the outlining of the certain dates (qualifying, middle, and end, I think they are...) are a little awkward and detailed in some ways yet vague in another, I did learn that it is important to be grateful for the kind things a man does, but not to go overboard at the same time. It is important to make it known that you deserve and expect to be treated well, but also appreciate it.
Superflirt - In this book, Tracey Cox talks about body language and flirting. I was very unaware of how powerful body language is. I found the information on both to be helpful, but being I'm waiting for true love for sex, I took the sex advice with a grain of salt, as it seems to be more directed at people who are less conservative on it than I am.
I've read other books, but these are the main ones that have affected me. There will always be parts to disagree with; but hopefully there will also be something to take with you. It depends on the reader's needs, experiences, and interpretations.
This is a great topic to have posted about.
I don't know if my reply is much help/insight... just posted what I know and obviously my opinions that I don't intend to press on anybody. To each their own. :)
Pink
Would you happen to know the author of "Me on Top"?
"Basically - be who you are, do what you like and how you like it and do no harm to yourself or others in the process. A creedo I can definitely live by!" ---> I have always tried to live this way. Too bad others can't.
Its actually called 'YOu on top' by Kate white (I think)
I looked at it on the web - I've decided to hold off on it - upon reading more about it it seemed more about 'getting a man' stuff thn having a life stuff - I may be wrong - but see what you think.
One I did pick up and am enjoying is Single: The Art of Being Satisfied, Fulfilled and Independent by Judy Ford - this one definitely focuses on creating YOUR own life and living it fully regardless of status.
Toni
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