Losing a guy as a friend
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Losing a guy as a friend
| Thu, 07-08-2004 - 1:11pm |
I've been good friends with this guy for almost 3 years. We've been close and have even been intimate, but it's always been just a "friendship". He's tells me that he loves me and I have told him the same. But, I'm "in love" as well as love him..he is not. He knows this as well. I've met his friends & his family. I work with him as well so I see him just about everyday. Over the last couple of months he's been missing. He doesn't say good-bye when leaving work; When I ask about getting together he says "let's play it by ear". We don't hang out much anymore. He did finally admit that he's seeing a girl at work(which of course I knew about anyway)and when he sees me when they're together he can't even say "hi" to me. It really makes me angry and I told him about it. His reply "in the initial stages of dating you can't pay ANY attn to ANY other female". 3 years of friendship and I get that reponse? Am I nutts for being angry? He's now angry b/c I'm upset by his actions and says "there is no such thing as an easy going woman you can just be friends with". We've been fighting(over email no less) for 3 weeks. We agreed to talk this through, but now he keeps putting it off and can't seem to make time for me. I feel so betrayed. Should we still try to be friends?

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Hon...you were in FWB....or in hanging out/hooking up - depending on how truly respectful, admiring, accepting of one another as individuals you are to constitute a friendship vs. acquaintenceship.
But this guy was NEVER dating you...you were offering him sex and he took the offer. You were fun to hang out with, and you maybe thought offering him sex - or him having sex with you -meant that someday his "feelings" would change.
But that's the thing...he NEVER saw you as someone he wanted to date. He was willing to have sex because "no obligation sex" is hard to come by.
And what has you SO upset is that he's "dating" this girl - he's prioritizing impressing, pleasing, and prioritizing her and her needs...which he should......
There's an adage that sums it up. "If you best friend is of the opposite sex, you're going to lose your "best friend" when one of you gets serious about someone else."
Even if you're just friends without benefits......and men are SO MUCH BETTER ABOUT THIS THAN WOMEN!......men know that they're emotionally bonded with the person that thhey're dating by how much time they spend together, and how much they share with each other - in and out of bed. As a result, a man committed to a woman rarely has female friends that he sees on a regular basis or in 1-on-1 situations.
But almost NEVER do you see a woman who has male friends, cease her male friendships when she gets a boyfriend or mate. That's because she likes the attention the "friend" gives her and doesn't want it to stop.
And the man who has a platonic friendship with a woman is now giving all his attention and prioritization to his "mate" appropriately and it's inappropriate to continue to share emotionally with another woman while trying to "commit" to his partner.
You're just upset that after all this time, he doesn't want to date you. Because, had you been honest with yourself in the beginning and said "if he never wants to date me am I going to be happy for him when he finds osmeone that he does want to date, will I dance at his wedding, even though we've had great physical sex?" And you'd have likely said "No, if it means that NEVER will I have the option/potential to date him will I have sex."
If that's correct, you just learned that you tend to "give to get in uncommunicated bargains" and that you're bargaining with sex...and that's not a tool, weapon, or a bargaining commodity.
Erin
quickblade14@hotmail.com
Thanks. Your words are a HARSH slap in the face, but a true opinion and solid advice. Have you been in this situation before? I've talked to my girlfriends about this and they all don't want to see me get my feelings hurt so just chalk it up to him being a jerk and how could he do this. But, hearing words from those who have no emotional involvement with this helps mountains. That's why I posted here for advice. Thinking right now since it's so fresh my answer to your question would probably be NO. I want to be truly happy for him, happy that's he's found someone, but it's hard to do at this stage since it's so fresh and my heart is broken. Any advice on getting over this? Is there any reason to try to still be just "friends" with him? Not having sex with him I can handle, but it's the talks that I'll miss the most. The relationship has changed now & can we be the same type of friends we were before even on a platonic level?
BTW...what does FWB mean? "Fair weather something"?
sorry to hear this. the opposite happened to me - i started dating a guy who was a friend, while i care and "love" him, i could never "fall in love" with him, while he did, and pretty hard. while he kept insisting it was OK, he would accept whatever I could offer him, he would not pressure me, etc., a lot of tension started brewing between us because we were so obviously in 2 different planes. He wanted to buy a place together, spend more and more time with me, while I could not reciprocate. I kept telling him we should just go back to being friends, but he could not bear hearing of that. Finally, during the early part of this year, i had to break it off. It felt rotten, worse than my dirove in fact, cos this guy truly was devoted to me, while my ex was not much in love with anyone but himself. I would have dearly loved to remain at least friends with my former boyfriend, but he is really very hurt and angry at the whole situation and I don't hear from him at all. I can understand, in his shoes I might feel the same way - this was a rotten turn of events, a question of timing.
I am hopeful he will get back into my life as a friend some day when we both have had the chance to move beyond this. He is a fine man, and never bears any acrimony or one bad feeling towards anyone. But for the time, I suppose I must deal with the loss of my best friend.
If your involvement is truly FWB....the friendship at some point will reinstate. Not now....becuase he is prioritizing pursuing this woman, and you're "hurt" (which indicates on your level there was some emotional bond BASED on the sexual connection but not necessarily solely on the sexual connection).
FWB is a common occurence...most women don't enter into it by conscious consent. Sometimes it's hanging out that ends up to be "hooking up" - with the woman assuming that because sex is now in the equation - that they are now "dating" and that hher feelings and needs are on his priority list. I don't really consider that FWB...that's a woman haing sex to get a relationship...and that's a man having sex becuase the option is there with no desire for a relationship at all.
Sometimes it's two very close friends, who for personal reasons at this time in their lives do not WANT to date and form a relationship with other people. They have goals, or professional pursuits that require their full attention, they're sexual people, they don't want diseases, they have respect, admiration and trust of one another as individuals - and what "sex" does to that friendship is just add a dimension....but like an unecessary piece - once the sex is OUT of the picture for whatever reason - the friendship resumes.
The reality is this......women that primarily make friends with mostly men....don't generally like women. They're intimidated by them. And so their friends are primarily male....and in those friendships there is often an attraction based element. Unfortunately, most people can't with attraction at the core - be "themselves" in every way. There is always the underlying sexual chemistry - that has you primping and pleasing and him posing and posturing...and eventually this all becomes "hanging out and turns into hooking up".
The thing is....most women fail to get that a man wanting to date...would date. That a man wanting a relationship would seek one. What people pursue is what they want. So what he wanted was either a) the friendship which got the added component of sex involved that can be lost without losing the friendship or b) he wanted the sex because you were offering it in exchange for a potential relationship under the guise of "friendship".
Until a person wants a mate...they won't have one. They may date, they may hang out and hook up, they may make an FWB connection......but until a person WANTS to have obligation, commitment, responsiblity and requirement to the needs and goals of another person in equal consideration with their own....they won't do it. No matter what you give, sacrifice, tolerate, endure, or offer...you cannot give to them a relationship if they do not want it.
You two work together...that is a dicey thing. You don't elaborate much on it. Yu don't say whether most people are aware of your sexual activity, or whether he's in a management position and you're not, or whether the company would fire, dismiss, or reprimand one or both of you for this dalliance if it were to come to the attention of HR. I have to assume becuase this new woman is also at work that he's dating...that dating at work while not recommended...is not a cause of dismissal or reprimand.
But.....if this new woman at work is UNAWARE that you two were having sexual benefits on top of professional liason and personal association.....he might well NOT want to make her aware of it. That'd be stupid on his part..but that might be a reason that he's using to avoid you altogether.
But, he's not a "jerk" for not wanting a relationship with you, while taking up the offer of sex from you. You offered, he availed -you both got your rocks off sexually, and it honestly sounds like there is genuine admiration and respect for one another as individuals in the mix.
I say that on his part towards you becuase he TOLD you why he is not going otu of his way to speak to you...he's working on impressing, pleasing and prioritizing HER. That he wants a relationship of emotional bond with HER...and he realizes his actions particularly with other women affect that possibility with her, for him. He wouldn't have to do that to get you to slink off....he could just avoid you. Unless you're one of the sort that wouldn't back off and would get more aggressive in terms of demanding an answer to "why"...in which case he told you to protect his own skin, so that you'll back off, play nice, get lost.
But when your "best friends" are of the opposite sex....it is something to realize (having been "one of the guys" for years I know, and having been more male oriented and geared, I also can relate) that when your "best male friend" gets a serious relationship or a wife....there is giong to be a serious limit to what he shares with you.
You see, what most men "share" until they choose a partner.....is shared with everybody. It's thier hopes, dreams, fears, and aspirations, and goals..because typically men don't see a partner as a necessity in order for those goals, dreams, aspirations and positions that they desire to be reality in their lives. Men don't think a relationship is going to "make them something they're not, or bring them something they haven't got."
In that light, men have no hesitation or reservation about sharing those dreams, goals, hopes, desires, and concerns with EVERYBODY because nobody but them is viewed as being "responsible for getting it for them". I know lots of women that get very hurt when they find otu the guy they've been hanging out and hooking up with that they assume he's been sharing his "goals, dreams, and talk of a future" with her because it "meant something"....finds out he shares that information with all the women he's friends with - benefits or not.
But men that desire and want commitment in life...generally STOP sharing with friends of the opposite sex thier hopes, dreams, fears, and goals overmuch - when they get a partner. Because now that partner IS integral and impacted by those actions, decisions, words, and pursuits....and that person has a "say" in how this goes.
Women would do well to adopt that approach to life - being self-aware, self-resonsible, self-accepting, and not holding other people responsible and account for "getting them to the point they want to be in the future". That would inspire them to be more optioned and more open to input...and it would shut down the dissimination of private matters when they get a partner.
The best example I've got is these boards....for the most part women come to all these boards to "get advice" about a situation in their life that they'll disclose in full as they see it. Quite often these women have partners that are impacted by their every thought, feeling, word, decision, and action...and they're NOT discussing it with him, they're trying ot get a particular result with or via him.....and they're discussing it with everybody else.
Men don't tend to do that....if men have a problem in their relationship, the tend to seek one or two trusted opinions from peopel the admire and respect, and in light of their own needs and goals, they' do whatever the situation requires on a factual level to get the result they want...and if the result they want is NOT obtainable, they admit it in the beginning and don't switch goals...they end relationships.
Men don't endlessly, as a rule, try to fit puzzle pieces together that don't interlock.....women quite often do.
Erin
quickblade14@hotmail.com
Thanks again for your words. Can I ask if you are some type of psychologist or where this insight is coming from?
Co-Workers have no clue what has been going on "behind closed doors". They know what we are friends, but nothing more than that to my knowledge. They also don't know about him and her at this point. I just know b/c I finally asked him about it and he told me.
We didn't begin as FWB. We worked together for quite a few years before we met actually met and then we just clicked. The sex didn't come into the picture for about a year(one drunk evening). He's actually the only male friend that I have. I really don't think he's a jerk and you put it in good words that he is trying to make her a priority in his life. I'm not sure if he would ever tell her about me and I would never be malicious and tell her about our intimate history. That is his choice to tell or not to tell. And he knows that I would never do that so why can't he just admit that we know eachother?
Is that true about him sharing his dreams, fears etc with everyone? He has one other good female friend who is married and he's been friends with her since they were teens. I am sure he's "shared" with her this emotions, goals, etc but does that mean that I should take it as he never really cared for me? That I was actually just a like anyone else to him? He's tried to tell me that men are simple, but I tend to believe them as being complex like women and that there are many layers, is that just a line because he is just a "friend" and I don't get to see the other layers?
I've blown up at him over the last couple of months because I knew that he was hiding something from me and couldn't just tell me. I've gone about it the wrong way in getting angry instead of just believing in the friendship and being able to talk to him. I was jealous so it came out with fire. He's even asked me why I couldn't just tell him about things that bothered me about our friendship. It didn't trust that he wouldn't just walk away from me if there were bumps in the road.
I'm sick of being angry with him and sick of being angry with myself for falling in to this trap. He's away on a business trip (with her no less). He wants to talk when he gets back b/c we've both said that the silence between us is unwelcome. The waiting has been killing me b/c our talk keeps getting postponed b/c of work or anything else. Is it good to talk or should I just forget about it and keep my distance?
On one hand.....don't bet that people at your job don't suspect. they might have no proof - but I'm sure that your discussions, body language, and affinity for one another have been duly noted and commented on. You didn't mention whether this would affect job status, so that is something to consider if it would.
What' s imperative to know is this......people do what they do because they want to do it. Their values justify their actions, feelings, thoughts, decisions, words, ideas and desires. Those same values determine in all situations character, conscience, integrity and honor.
So, he didn' t have sex without obligation in terms of commitment because of YOU. He had it WITH you becuase you were willling...and if he had other options for that he likely availed himself of them because this was a no-commitment situation.
You KNOW that is right because now he is withdrawing from you in every capacitty - seeking this committed alliance. So you know that when he wants commitment - he seeks it. And when he seeks it - he disassociates from those with whom he has intimacy, quite likely to put himsel fout of the path of temptation to indluge in "just sex" - while trying to form an emotional bond that allows for lovemaking with this other woman.
Nobody does what they do because of you, in spite of you, despite you, about, towards, or due to you...just remember that....YOU are not the common denominator in any situation in another person's life. But you are the common denominator in your life in every situation and relationship.
that's why people keep having the "same relationship' with different people. They are the common denominator and they seek the same type of person with the same set of values and priorities that they were using when choosing the previous partner or liason. So, to change your relationship dynamic...you must change your own values and priorities which are dettermining at all times what you do and want to do.
Now...if you'd flip this around....you'd see something quite clearly. If YOU were the one who had found someone to date, and wanted to form a relationship - would YOU want that man to know that you worked with a man that you were capable of having non-emotionally bonded sex with? What conclusions would he draw about you - about him...and about the reality that you two still work together in close proximity? Because, while it is not "fair" it is accurate ot say that if he told her "it was just sex" - she'd think no lessof him quite likely. Howevver, if in the future you tell a man that you're dating and want to form an emotional bond with that "it was just sex" - that man unless he is extremely self-actualized is going to wonder forever afterward if you having sex with him "means anything at all." It's the perceptino that women 'form an emotional bond becuase of sex" that causes this disaparity in standard. That it is perpetuated, accurately in most situations, by women who do bond "as a result of sex" and want more than just sex or just casual dating....that verifies that to some degree, the theory is accurate. So a woman telling a man she dates that she has the capacity to be "like him" in the sexual realm - that she can have sex without a bond because it is just physical gratification - that is going to spark some concern in that man, again - unless he is quite self-actualized.
that is likely WHY, mistakenly if he is, your friend is hiding your intimate alliance. That, and it could be that he doesn't want the negative job repercussions. He's hiding her as well, it seems...and that is "his style" and there is some reason behind it. Although it appears that you knew he was dating her - how'd you know? did other people tell you outright while he avoided doing so? Or, did you surmise it basedon their contact and body languge?
While I wouldn't project onto him....I default back to what people do is not because of you, for you, towards you, about you, in spite or despite you - they do what they do because they want to do it. So he easily might share the confidences with others that he shared wtih you - it doesn't mean he cares for you any less than he does them.
if you thought that having sex made you 'special' in his world.....in a way it does. It means that you two have an activity that you share - that he doesn't have with Fred and Joe, or with his married female friend, Bonnie. But if you thought having sex made you prioritized over them - that would be a mistaken assumption, I believe you might have made that - and acted on it as a fact.
In the heated arguments or accusations that you threw his way, you told him what he should have beenn told calmly. That I want more than "just bed buddy status, I love everything we have, I've invested my time in our liason, I've not dated others as a result of this liason, nd I want more than to be just bed buddies."
that could have taken him aback if up to that point he considered you mature, rational, sensible, logical, successful and secure. Most people possessing those traits and qualities and status quos do not in explode in a heated way bsaed on "I'm not getting what I want in light of what I gave I am being cheated". He easily could have anticipated that if ever you developed feelings of a romantic nature that you'd tell hiim - so that he could end the liason without hurt feelings or regret. i can't know that for sure, only he knows that.
It could also have taken him by surprise if he's putting on a front and has been all this while. That he's never really been so much in admiration, respect, acceptance, and awe of you as an individual - he's just been enamored of this all benefit/no obligation situation that had the added intrigue of secrecy. He saw the outburst and thought "cat out of the bag, uhoh" and proceeded to disassociate because he doesn't want you know about the others, he doesn't want you knowing about this woman in particular - because you all do work together.
So, realize that the talk that you're giong to have is not going to bring you closure or answers. the answers you want aren't likely readily available...and if they are, be sure you want them prior to asking. Because fundamentally the question is not "why'd you pick her" or "why didn't you tell me"...it's "why not me, am I not good enough?" And that's not the question to ask, because it's not an accurate assessment of the situation.
It's not that you're not good enough for a relationship with him...it's that he doesn't desire a relationship wtih you and therefore there will never be one. That's just a piont you need to accept - you can cry, hit, scream (I recommend all of those in private) or weep........and acceptance of it allows for hate or like of the fact.
But what he doesn't want is a relationship wtih you. This situation has brought to your attention that YOU do want a relationship - at least one more emotionally bonded and satisfying than "just sex and friends".
So, since you can't undo the past or this situation - run with it, so to speak. Utilize it to your well-being in the future. Know that you're not one of the people cut out at this time to do "FWB"...so don't engage in it in the future. Realize that you might want to review and redefine your values and priorities if you do wish to be able to do casual sex...so that you do and can have great sex without an emotionally attached partner, if you were ever to prioritize/want/need that option. And then start really "dating" - requiring men to invest time in getting to know you as a person, admire you as an individual - before getting into bed.
It's just not that hard to be admiring of a great BJ......it takes a person of substance, intelligence, and awareness to appreciate your more existential traits and qualities.
Erin
quickblade14@hotmail.com
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