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| Tue, 09-05-2006 - 7:27pm |
Hi, I posted earlier this morning under "serious candidate or not"...
Well, I did not receive his phone call at all! I have been waiting all day.
Strange, isn't it?
This was to be our first date.
We had exchanged numbers. He said he would call me before he said bye to me yesterday at work. We had decided which restaurant after an extended discussion of what kinda food or places we like and don't like. I know for a fact the lunch was today, both of our off-days. We had not decided the exact time though. I figured he would call me first thing in the morning to decide that, or atleast by 10..11am.
Sometime back, I called him for the first time (we have never spoken on the phone). It went straight to the machine after 3 rings. I hung up.
After all the interest he showed me, why this? Is this a game he is playing to gauge my level of interest? Or has he been in an emergency? Did he lose my number?
Tomorrow at work, how should I react?
I am totaly bummed out, and very disappointed and surprised at his disrespectful behavior. I kept myself hungry for until 1pm, until I gave up and had food at home.
I am still wayyy wayy way too surprised. This date was in the works since the last 3 weeks, when he had been trying for us to meet. And when the day finally dawns, he gives me a no show?

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I am discussing this because it's interesting to look into his words and behavior and to learn from everyone's insight and to analyze together and chat together, and comment on everyone's comments/questions. I am discussing this because I like to express myself. Yes, sure, I like him a bit but am not into him. Not going behind him for anything. I am just, still, extremely BAFFLED by his behavior and that's what makes me curious and that is what makes me *think*. Yes, I feel let down all because he had gradually made me start trusting his intentions. So any girl would be quite let down. Not because she is into him, but because of sheer shock. Because she had started believing him! Actually, I don't think I'll want to tell him that I will give him another chance. That's being presumptious, I feel. He has not asked me out again yet. I have no idea what is in his mind as of now. and I am NOT going behind him wanting to know if we are going out again. No way at all. I am not desparate for him, or even *interested* to take this further as of now, and this incident has made me lose trust in his intentions. Today, when he messaged me saying he missed talking to me, I felt a sense of some relief, not because I like him or want him, but because he was being *consistent* with his words and behavior and the vibe I had felt from him all those earlier weeks. I like to see consistency. That's what builds trust in me. Anyways, thanks again.... will certainly post again if needed....
Sienna, this may be the first guy that flirted with you and then stood you up but it may not be the last. If you are interested in my humble opinion on the matter I bet this guy was looking to have a romantic interlude with you more so than a committed relationship. He might have gone along with the lunch idea but probably would have preferred drinks in a bar. Lunch means discussion and no sex, and that wasn't what he had in mind.
He probably wants to continue having deep discussions on IM or email because he is getting something from it. Go ahead and text and email him but don't expect this guy to be too concerned about trust, analyzing who said what to whom or worry about him doing what he says he is going to do.
<< I am just, still, extremely BAFFLED by his behavior and that's what makes me curious and that is what makes me *think*. >>
Sheesh almighty! Ok, I know these boards wouldn't exist and we wouldn't have anything to discuss if women didn't like to *think* and overanalyze ... BUT, at face value, consider this:
He left your number at work. Because you guys had never spoken on the phone, he did not have your number in his call log.
Simple enough, right? I don't see what about that story needs to be dissected up one side and down the other. IMO, it's very plausible.
(and no, sienna, I'm not coming down on you at all ... it's just in a *general sense* in terms of how women tend to pick, overanalyze, overthink, etc when it comes to men's intentions ... and, well ... I'm kind of just using this thread as an example)
Now, if women would keep in mind two very important things, we'd all be much less confused and *baffled* ... and that is:
1) men are NOT as complicated as we'd like to think they are (that includes their intentions)
2) men, much like women, have feelings too! They have egos, they have pride, they can feel rejected, unsure, embarrased, etc. All those things that we feel ... well, they can feel that, too. ;-)
That said, yes ... men are FALLIBLE! They make mistakes, they're imperfect, they are often just as "unsure" as we are ... they don't always know the best or perfect way to handle things (particularly, if you look at it from the outside-in ... they DO have it tougher than we do in terms of knowing what to do ... that is, because women ARE by nature more complicated in our feelings and emotions than men are).
So, next time you (an in general *you*) want to label a guy as a jerk, a player or whatever conclusion ... just consider taking what IS at face value rather than reading into or projecting more into the situation than is really there.
Sure, Sienna could say "he pursued me, no-showed on the date and now I have no idea what his intentions are/were!?" ... and because of that, label him a *player* because he chased her. But, hello?!!? What did he get out of doing that, that is ... if he were a player? For a true PLAYER, it would not stop at setting the date and then simply not showing. That's ridiculous. He didn't get anything out of it (other than grief for not showing up when they both returned to work).
So, he didn't call the next day because he was embarrassed. Again, he's human! Here's this girl (sienna) whom he pursued, it took weeks to set the date ... and then the day comes and DOH! He left her number at work. He feels like the world's biggest idiot. After all, he made the efforts, now ... he's left her number at work. He feels like he's blown it. Sure, the RIGHT thing would have been to call as soon as he had her number again. But, he was embarrassed. Again, would it HURT to cut the guy some slack and take his story at face value? NO, it wouldn't hurt. But, if stubborn pride is more important than open-mindedness, then sure ... it might hurt a little. Because, that would mean GROWING ... and the adjustment of growing does involve a little pain. ;-)
So, now ... this guy is sending IMs here and there to try to break the ice. Sienna isn't going to presume that he still wants to go out (but, I'd bet my eye teeth that he does ... I mean, at face value, he took weeks to make a date with her, and because he "blew it" he'd probably like nothing more than to make it up to her).
However, << He has not asked me out again yet >> ... well, he doesn't know if you'd accept or not. He's not sure if you're mad at him stil, most likely. And because ... yes, men are human and feel rejection and embarrassment just the same as we do ... since he isn't sure how you feel and if you'd accept, he'll probably continue to feel the situation out with an IM or casual conversation here and there, but ... unless/until you say "ok, I forgive you and am willing to give you another chance" ... I doubt that he'll come out and ask point-blank for another date ... that is, unless he gets a really solid vibe that you're a) no longer upset about it and b) that you'd actually accept. Otherwise, he'd probably rather avoid the rejection.
But would a guy who's "truly" interested in a woman that he's pursued for months really forget the woman's number at work? Wouldn't he guard it like gold? Maybe adding it to his cell phone/blackberry? I met a guy over the weekend who practically stared at me all night approach me for my phone number and when he got it, he immediately added it to his cell phone. He called the next day too!
<< But would a guy who's "truly" interested in a woman that he's pursued for months really forget the woman's number at work?>>
He might. I think reading anything else into it is making assumptions. All these "woulds", "shoulds", "shouldn'ts","if's" ... it's all assumptions, presumptions, etc.
At face value, it was a holiday weekend. Like most people, he was probably eagerly anticipating the end of the day on Friday (I know I was!) and left as soon as he possibly could in anticipation of the long weekend.
Sorry, perhaps you can't relate ... but, in my haste to "get outta there", I've left things at work before (including my phone, a couple of times). It doesn't mean that I don't CARE about my phone or whatever I left behind, it just means that I was either in a hurry to leave or wasn't thinking about it. I've left my reading glasses at work MANY times. That doesn't mean that I don't care about my eyes, ha ... just means that I carelessly overlooked it and/or didn't think about it as I was leaving because I was doing or thinking of something else.
By taking the stance of "if he was TRULY interested, he woudln't have left her number at work" ... well, that isn't cutting the guy much slack nor is it giving him much room to just be a HUMAN BEING ... a person who makes mistakes.
<< Wouldn't he guard it like gold?>>
Sorry, and I don't mean to sound flip ... but, statements like this make me cringe. It's a phone number. It isn't a matter of national security. When I read things like that I think one thing: HIGH EXPECTATIONS. Honestly, if you want a BF, you'll have to reduce your expectations, allow people to make mistakes (otherwise, if you don't expect or allow people to make honest mistakes ... you'll have to be PERFECT all the time). And by nature, people aren't perfect ... so, if you expect such, you'll be calling the kettle black by being hypocritical. Unless you know, without a shadow of a doubt that you'll never forget anything ... then, you can't expect that of anyone else.
And honestly, I don't want to have to be perfect. I just want to be me ... I want to be accepted for who I am ... and knowing that a) I'm human and b) I don't hold others to higher standards or expect more of others than I can uphold for myself ... that includes making honest mistakes from time to time and being allowed to do so.
So, I allow others to make honest mistakes from time to time. Without persecuting, punishing, assuming or presuming wrongdoing, without trying the person as guilty or blaming ... just saying "ok self, what's the consequence here? can I let this go or must I hold my righteous/almighty ground?" (remember, don't sweat the small stuff! ... save it for the big stuff that REALLY matters).
Because, thing is ... righteousness and demands for respect and/or "worship me" attitudes ... major turn-offs for most men.
And I'm sorry, the whole "guard it like gold" thing is within the "treat me like gold, worship me" attitude. At least, that's my opinion ... and i'm sticking to it. Because here's what I've found out over the years: women who want to be "treated like gold" and put on a pedestal will eventually be let down ... or pushed off their high horse by the guy who put her there.
Women who want a relationship that is equality based, with mutual respect, mutual consideration and kindness ... we lower our expectations (not standards, but expectations) and we value the mutual benefit of the relationship ... while allowing each other to be HUMAN.
In my experience ... men appreciate a woman who's real, who will be herself, who will allow him to be himself. And that includes making honest mistakes. We are all entitled to weigh the gravity of mistakes; however, there isn't a rational person on the planet who would view leaving a phone number at work as a grievous or hurtful mistake. And, if a person does choose to view it as such, all I'm saying is that ... they may need to adjust their expectations if they want any chance of having a relationship with a guy who doesn't BOLT at the first sign of high expectations and/or demands being made. People are people ... we all make mistakes. We deal.
Lastly, regarding << I met a guy over the weekend who practically stared at me all night approach me for my phone number and when he got it, he immediately added it to his cell phone. He called the next day too!>>
That's great that he called! ...but, that really doesn't mean anything at this point. It just means that he's anxious, it doesn't mean that he's interested. Why? Because he doesn't know you well enough to know if he's interested. Until/unless you go out with the guy, and have some indication of his patterns, behaviors ... you're in no position (yet) to judge him as well-intentioned or not. His calling means nothing.
(btw, did he ask you out while he had you on the phone?)
Case in point, you're judging the guy who was interested in Sienna as not TRULY interested because he left her number at work. However, you're giving the guy who put your number in his phone and called you the next day kudos because he called.
The reality is ... neither you nor Sienna know if either guy is TRULY interested or not ... or if you're truly interested in him ... because NEITHER of you have had a date with either of these guys.
All you know, personally, is that you like that he called you the next day. But, he could turn out to be a complete loser, incapable of having a decent conversation, or whatever the case may be. Who knows? Only time and a couple dates will tell.
So, what does his calling the next day tell you? Nothing, other than he was anxious to call you! It doesn't mean that he likes you (other than on the surface of what he saw that caused him to stare and approach you), and it doesn't mean that he's INTERESTED in getting to know you ... it cannot possibly mean that. He could just be interested in getting laid. So, you take that next-day call with a grain of salt ... take it at face value, that is ... it doens't mean he's interested, because it cannot possibly mean that yet. And, in taking that approach, you have few to ZERO expectations. But, if you read into the fact that he called you the next day as a sign of interest or that he must be looking for a relationship or something, you'll more than likely end up disappointed.
And, fwiw, in my experience ... the ones who stare (rather than immediately or quickly approach) are creepy. I don't want to be practically stared at ... so for me, regardless of how cute the guy is/was, I wouldn't have given a 'starer' my number. Secondly, by calling the next day, he's showing that he's anxious. Anxious often equals needy or overly-zealous. These types are usually GREAT if you want to date 4x's per week and get all consumed with it. And then ... what starts off quick ... all hot and heavy usually ends just as quickly.
Again, not judging ... just based on my experiences. I've never had a relationship pan out with a guy who called right away or seemed TOO into me in the beginning. The ones that have worked, for me, were always the 'slow simmers.' Guys who appear too anxious have always been too needy (for me at least, to each is own).
I didn't read all of your post because it was entirely too long. But bottom line, if I make a date with someone and he doesn't think enough of me to call and explain why he can't make it on the first date, that is a deal-breaker for me. Even if he did lose my number, that to me is unacceptable. It just shows me how he would treat me as a person. Maybe some people can overlook this but I can't and I wouldn't, especially starting with someone new. I always try to make the best impression with someone new.
You don't have to agree with me, that's fine we'll just have to agree to disagree. It's up to the o/p to do how she feels because every person thinks and feels differently. After all, she was the one seeking advice, not me.
This is my opinion and I'm sticking with it.
<< Even if he did lose my number, that to me is unacceptable. It just shows me how he would treat me as a person. >>
Even the OP has said he didn't LOSE her number. He left it at work. He didn't mistreat her. He made a mistake by leaving her number at work. What's the big deal?
Since my post was too long (as it discussed things outside of the situation, but relevant to it), I'll sum it up:
people are human and people make mistakes. So long as that mistake isn't hurful or malicious, does it HURT YOU to cut a person some slack?
<< Maybe some people can overlook this but I can't and I wouldn't, especially starting with someone new. I always try to make the best impression with someone new.>>
So, I guess you're perfect and you never make mistakes? You have such high expectations that you cannot overlook a non-intentional, non-malicious mistake?
I don't know how old you are (perhaps 25, since that's what is in your screen name?) If that's the case then, I'll chalk your outlook up to lack of experience and your age and cut it some slack because well, you just don't yet. And I can't fault you for what you have not yet had time to experience.
But, as you proceed thru the dating process ... all I can say is GOOD LUCK finding a boyfriend who will want to deal with your high expectations and lack of leniency in terms of allowing people to just be human.
I'm with ivil mami on this. If you make plans with someone then carry them out. There are so many great guys out there you don't need to put up with the ones that leave numbers at work. The fact that the guy didn't call, didn't apologize and didn't offer a way to make this up makes it pretty clear to me that he isn't that interested.
To take this a few steps further, I was suspicious of the way this man approached sienna through IM, leading her on that he was anonymous only to find out later that he knew exactly who she was. Then before he even introduced himself to her he wished to meet her away from the office.
There are a number of flags here and I don't like any of them.
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