opinions needed

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-16-2003
opinions needed
10
Fri, 09-17-2004 - 1:15pm
I have a question in my head...the situation I am in is really stressing me...

I have been going out with a guy for just over 2 months now and I have met some of his family, we have gone out to clubs/bars etc...Since the both of us have just started classes again, I barely see him now. Our work schedules conflict so that I am lucky to catch a glimpse of him leaving the office while I am just coming in. He is taking 6 classes, works 22 hours a week and is in his final year at school...so he is extremely busy.

I spend maybe one day in 2 weeks with him. When I see him, we don't do anything really, just hang around his place, watch tv, maybe go for a walk and yes, those few times I see him we have sex. Now I realize he is always strapped for cash and it's not like we can go and blow $$$ but I have started to feel like I am "a friend with benefits" for him. I know we talk on the phone often, for 30-60 mins at a time and I am sure he wouldnt do that with a friend and I realize that when we see each other, it is natural for him to want sex since we don't really see each other much...but do I have a right to feel this way? Everytime I go see him and it's been some time since the last time i saw him, within minutes he is all over me. Of course I am flattered but it makes me very sad too because I cant help but feel a little used...

also, It seems like he just has zero time for me and I don't understand how he can think that a relationship can work this way..I was in a long distance relationship for 2 years, now I feel like this is yet another one of those even though we only live 30 mins apart. It has been upsetting me so much lately and I feel like if I talk to him about it on the phone(since I can't see him), he'll just get mad because I am not "understanding that he needs to study". He just doesn't realize that I feel totally secondary to everything and I am not sure if I should just call it quits with him...I believe he finally has some time for me this weekend, so I will get to see him...I just don't know how to approach the whole topic...:(

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Fri, 09-17-2004 - 2:16pm
It's "hanging out and hooking up" - which is what people do when they do NOT want a relationship which is a job that involves meeting another person's needs appropriately, compromising your own needs occasionally, and considering this other person at all times equally with yourself.

Hanging out and hooking up is a low budget/non time consuming way to get fun, sex, companionship - it takes the place of "dating".

Dating doesn't mean a person wants a relationship either. But dating does indicate that because they're spending time and effort planning on you and with you and for you (and you them) - that "you" as an individual in some capacity are a priority with them (and vice versa).

Erin

quickblade14@hotmail.com

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-05-2003
Fri, 09-17-2004 - 2:23pm
I think that you may want to end things since they don't sound like they're working out the way you want. You can try talking to him and letting him know that you're wanting to spend a little more time with him- it would only be fair to give it a chance. But if he trully can't make more time for you, you should end things. That way you can find someone without so many demands who you can spend time with.

Alison

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iVillage Member
Registered: 09-16-2003
Fri, 09-17-2004 - 2:35pm
we have been going for 2 months. in the beginning he just ignored my questions about "what do you want with me" and I made it clear to him from the beginning that I dont have sex unless I will have a relationship with him and he understood this...Do you think it would be a good idea to ask him straight up what he wants with me (mind you, he'll probably just say "we'll see", as he always does...i guess i have a dead end situation...I cant win
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-05-2003
Fri, 09-17-2004 - 3:17pm
The problem is that you SAID you wanted a commitment, but didn't DEMAND one. He still got to have what he wanted, and you haven't. So you think that once you two started having sex you were in a relationship, he was probably just agreeing to get laid.

If you're not getting what you want out of it, why stay? It won't change, it will continue this way, so might as well end it and have the chance to find someone you're more compatible with.

Guys that give you the run around with their answers don't want anything more than what they're getting.

Alison

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Fri, 09-17-2004 - 3:56pm
So this doesn't happen to you again by "accident' let's see if I can recreate this for you.

You two found one another intresting and attractive but due to all his obligations and commitments elsewhere (which are legitimate) he didn't really have time to "date". At first, you two might have gone to movies or something - but he had a very short period of time in his schedule where he had some free time and maybe free passes or else he just didn't pay a bill or two in order to take you out a couple of times.

And then...his obligations/requirements kicked in full time - and he didn't have time to date at all.

You told him in the beginning "I don't have sex without a relationship/commitment" (or something similar). Okay - that is you saying "I don't have sex without a commitment and I will make the determination based on our interaction when I am ready to have sex." (because that's how life works - if you have a standard or criteria involved it's up to you to "make sure it is met" before you proceed. You don't pay them Monday - for next Friday's dinner - so to speak.

He didn't say much of anything except "mm mmm"....as in "okay, that is your standard, I understand".

However, because everything has moved so fast - from dating a few times, to sex, to everytime he calls and is available you hang out and hook up - YOU NOW THINK THAT HE HAS THE OBLIGATION TO MEET AND SHARE THAT CRITERIA/STANDARD FOR "I DON'T HAVE SEX WITHOUT COMMITMENT".

No way, hon. All he did was "say nothing" and you assumed that he "agreed" with your standard and that he wouldn't pursue sexual activity with you until "he' was commitment - that's because by the time you were having that conversation - you were ready and willing to have sex/commitment with him.

When the make out session got intensense you didn't call it off and let cooler heads prevail and have a conversation....you continued with the assumption that "he knows that I don't have sex without commitment and so he must be committed or else he wouldn't be attempting to have sex with me."

Delighted to get "commitment" in the form of sex...you induldged.

You're still in that same position.

You can "talk" about it - you probably should. But do it objectively and not accusatorily.

Because he didn't use you or mislead you - you just let assumptions and expectations take the place of facts.

Erin

quickblade14@hotmail.com

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-16-2003
Fri, 09-17-2004 - 4:21pm
oh no, i am not assuming anything...yes it would bother me if he was just using me for sex but not to the point that I would be devastated. I know there is a possibility he is just doing that, but he is a guy who prefers to see where things go. I mean I understand it, in the beginning you don't know what will happen. You can't say for sure that things will work out and that we'll live happily ever after. I know he isnt sleeping around (tho bouts of accusations and jealousness hit me at times) and I know he doesnt have time for his friends either so it isnt just me...he said in the beginning that he wants to take things slow because he knows time will be the one thing I will want and the one thing he doesnt have right now...i think i will just wait and see what happens. I just told him that I dont know if i can handle seeing him just once every 2 weeks (yep, he got kinda mad) but that time will tell...which is true
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Fri, 09-17-2004 - 4:41pm
I'm not sure how to explain this.....but to most women - there is almost no wrong time for a relationship - and to men there is only very specific times in which to begin and be in a relationship.

Men are about timing. It's because they grow up knowing anything they don't make or have or provide to and for themselves - they likely won't have in life. That they won't "become" someone through an alliance like a relationship - they'll have to have an identification outside of that in order to succeed in life and in general.

And this isn't uncommon....lots of women in their 20's are quite frustrated with men in their 20's and early 30's becuase of this.

The woman is ready to "date to find a mate" - she wants commitmetn and security, she's ready to get on with making babies and starting to "pursue" the things that he pursues that interest her, so that they grow in parallel.

The man however is quite willing to date -he has the itme and money - but he is NOT willing to "date to find a mate."

Dating is just about living in the moment, enjoying what is transpiring at the time, and being "who you are"...which is where lots of women get frustrated nad confused.

Very nice, mature, single men....that aren't where they want to be professionally and personally - are dating them. The women are quite ready to settle down - sure that "together" we'll have waht we haven't individually got. The women have put off a great deal in order to "not get sidetracked, bogged down and committed" to things that would take them out of the realm of seeking and having as a main priority - "a committed relationship".

The men haven't done that...knowing that they're only guaranteed to have what they provide for themselves, and knowing that anything they become they've got to make of themselves - they don't see things as women do. Women consider lots of things distractions nad diversions and off limits - that men consider opportunities and options for advancement or diversity and expansion.

And I honestly believe that is where you are - based on what you said in the original post.

The guy is extremely busy with work and school - so he's not in a position to know right now precisely where he's "going to head" - once the education is complete. Once complete, he's going to spend time professionally making of himself what he wants to become. That generally to most smart and professionally advancing men - doesn't include limiting their options on travel and relocation due to commitment in a relationship for a college-age liason.

Men don't tend to pick partners and "then become who they want to be in the personal regard".....they tend to do the sports, pursue the interests, commit to hobbies and things for a lifetime - women notwithstanding. (notice how many women areu pset that the hobbies he had pre-marriage - he still has them with the same amount of prioritization and expense!)

So I guess I'm trying to say - that you're taking a smart approach in realizing that it is quite possible this own't lead anywhere except "while you're in the close and immediate proximity of one another." And you're enjoying it for what it is - while not making it into something it's not.

But do realize something else - indecision is a decision! It's a decision not to decide!

So if the time comes when you're looking for emotional bond and investment and commitment, not just physical interaction and sporadic enjoyment of one another outisde of bed - if he doesn't want that.....don't get caught up in thinking that you've made a huge or even smal investment "in a future with him" - so that until he wants what you want - you're going to take what he has to offer.

Believe me, that is not how successful people in any venue operate. they decide what they want, they pursue it intelligent, realistically, and diligently - and they usually succeed in getting what they want.

That fails in human relationships when you decide that "what you want is him" - but then you want the terms, conditions and requirements that he is willing to adhere to - to be what you demand. You can't make somenoe "want what you want".

So in all relationships, I personally adopt the motto - this is me "practicing for a real commitment".....I've been married 4 times in 14 years and been single now about 8....ut I can honestly say none of it was healthy, committed, equality based relationships between two self-esteeming adults.

And if in the dating I do - it becomes a relationship of more than sexual exclusivity - I'll still be practicing to be in a committed relationship. Notice I said "I am practicing" - that means I am requiring myself to conduct myself just as I would with someone that i admire, trust, respect, and accept as a person in my life...which in my case, leads to tons of honest, but non-accusatory communication.

From there, I realize that me getting what I want out of life...requires me to affiliate with people that want the same thing by similar definitions and methods - that communication enables me to find out if the person I'm dealing with does that.

Erin

quickblade14@hotmail.com

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Fri, 09-17-2004 - 5:18pm
Stephen Covey has an excellent quote that applies here - "Seek first to understand, then to be understood". What needs to follow that is - "then make an informed and effective decision based on known facts".

The facts are - you will not be given by him the things you want, need and expect over the next 8 to 12 months. He has at least 2 other obligations that he prioritizes over you at this time. You are choosing your feelings and he is not forcing these feelings on you.

You have the right to feel whatever way you want - just recognize that these feelings are YOUR CHOICE. You also have no right to demand that he change so that you are his sole #1 priority. If being a #1 priority is a fundamental need of yours, then you will have to seek that elsewhere as he is not in a position to give it to you right now.

My 18 year old daughter is going through the exact same thing right now - but in reverse. She is taking 6 classes in her first year of Interior Design College. She works 24 hours a week. She is the head leader for a Girl Scouts troop in which she has 30+ year old women (and mothers) as subordinate leaders to her. She also has a boyfriend. The thing is she has her priorities straight and is an extremely responsible and well-rounded young lady. I'm not only her dad, but since she is an adult now, I am also her coach. If her boyfriend were to become whiney and make more demands of her time, I would coach her to keep focus on her 3-year plan and define herself as a directed and results driven adult.

I'd say the same thing to the guy you are hanging out with. Keep the focus on the priorities that give you long term success and results so that you can be an effective adult contributing to society. Any relationship you choose should compliment that at this time.

You need more than that so I'd advise you to move on and find someone that has an agenda similar to yours. You may like & desire the guy but your agendas are too different for short term success.

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-16-2003
Fri, 09-17-2004 - 8:48pm
thank you all for your comments, really appreciate it!

I just had a long conversation about this with him on the phone. (he wanted me to go there to stay with him tonight but I had to go shopping with my mom so I couldnt, so i will go see him tomorrow)

He just said that his schedule is very very busy and that 6 classes and 22 hour work weeks unfortunately leave very little for anything else. During the weeks he is in classes all day or working so he has very little time to study, so he needs to study during the weekends...I see his point, but he refuses to see where I am coming from. What kind of relationship can we have when we don't really see each other? What happens when he goes to grad school and will be working full time as well? Is he not just going to have a relationship with anyone? I am a busy person, I am ambitious...I am a full time honor program student and I also work 20 hours a week but I still feel that my life has to have something else other than work/school...

But in any case...it was very good that we had this conversation, it was actually the first time we had such an open convo about anything, so it is definitely a step to some direction as he is a very private person and doesn't like to speak about his feelings...but I do feel that we accomplished something even though he kept on saying that he doesn't see where I am coming from...Thanks you all!!! :) if you have any further comments, please feel free!
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Fri, 09-17-2004 - 10:09pm
I think you need to ask yourself 2 questions and be prepared to give a clear and concise answer:

1 - What does a relationship mean to you?

2 - What specific things would he have to do for you to feel like & believe you are in a relationship with him?

Would he have to quit or reduce the hours of his job? Would he have to cut his course load in half? Would he have to reduce his study time? Would he have to reduce his sleep time to 4 hours a night?

Frankly, I don't think he perceives the 2 of you in a relationship. You may be hanging out, hooking up, and being great part-time companions. For you to get what you want would mean that he would have to sacrifice one of his current priorities.

If you want a relationship - unfortunately he is not the man at this time. As Erin mentioned in her posts to you - timing is everything for a man and his relationships. You need to fully understand that.