A realization and some more questions

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-21-2003
A realization and some more questions
13
Tue, 03-02-2004 - 6:25pm
I have finally realized that I have a rescuer type of personality and I always want to try to "rescue" people out of their situations. I want people to be happy and I try to help people out as much as I can. I guess that is not always the best thing to do. I just wish that I could learn to take care of myself as much as I worry about other people

My boyfriend and I have been doing ok. Our dating is going strong, and he really does care about me. Just this weekend, he came up to see me and he hung out with me even though I spent most of the weekend working on a school project. He encourages me to do well in school and he watches out for my well-being. Things are very well with us. He was real sweet to me for Valentine's Day and things have been going strong. I see him most weekends and usually one day during the week. He is such a sweet and loving guy. I wish I could do more for him. I dont know.

When this weekend was over, one of his friends took him home since I was busy trying to finish stuff for school. On Monday night, I called him to see how he was doing. He told me that he was doing fine but that his parents were mad at him about something. His parents had been gone for about a month and they came home this weekend. He told me that when he got home, he found that his mom had taken the TV set and DVD player out of his room and appropriated it and threw some of the stuff that he had on the kitchen table, in his room. I dont understand how his parents can just waltz in his room and take stuff out of it, stuff that is HIS. He says he is mad at his parents but he picks his battles. I can tell you that if my parents did that to my brother (my brother lives at home but he works full time and he makes good money; he lives at home because he is saving up for a house and my parents dont want the empty nest syndrome), my brother would raise hell with them. My brother raises hell with them even if they just move stuff in his room.

To top that off, while I was on the phone with him, his mom starts screaming at him about stuff and getting on his case. For God's sake, he is 31 years old, dont treat him like he is a little kid. That is cruel and mean. Yeah, my parents treat me like a kid when I come home, but even they dont yell and scream at me while I am on the phone. Finally, he tells me that he has to go since he cant stand his mom yelling at him. He tells me he will talk to me tomorrow since he is going to go over to a friend's house and avoid his mom for a bit while she is in this mood. I then told him that I wished I lived down by him so I could be there for him and he could come over to my place and hang out, if things got bad with his parents. No, I dont like the way his parents treat him. I think they are very cruel to him.

Later on, I was able to talk to him briefly online. I told him that I wanted to help him out and to be there for him. I told him that I felt bad for him about the way his parents treated him and all that. He tells me that it isnt something I can help him with but that he just needs to have his parents cool off. I just dont understand how he can live at home if his parents are being that bitchy to him, and they are. I have seen his mom get mad at him about stuff. They nag at him and basically treat him like a kid. That I dont like. I told him that I was willing to help him out and that I could move down there and, if he wanted, he could move in with me and I would support him for a bit until he could get on his feet again. His parents are destroying his self-esteem. He works at a place where his boss constantly gets on his case. I really want him to do well and sometimes, I think, if I give him a place where he can actually feel wanted and also free to do what he wants, he can regain his self-esteem and learn to live on his own. I dont know anymore. He didnt want to talk long since he had to go, but he didnt even acknowledge what I brought up about me helping him out. That made me angry and I stewed about that all night long and most of the morning at work.

I was very angry at that. I feel like I can see what is destroying his life and his self-esteem. I know he wants to be an artist so much. I wish I could help him with contacts and all of that, but that is not my specialty. I want so much for him to succeed and I would help him out. This morning, I stewed around for a bit, then I called him at work. He was happy to hear from me, then I went off on him about how bad I felt about how his parents treat him, but that he doesnt seem like he wants my help. I told him that I worry about him and I want the best for him. I finally found out why his parents got on his case. They want MONEY from him for living at home. Now that is cruel. They know how little he makes and how much he struggles, and they want to wrangle that out of him. That is cruel. Chicago is not a cheap city to live in and the fact that they want to take his paycheck so he doesnt even have money to go and have fun (so he can forget about his stupid job, and get away from that environment), that is cruel. My parents have always encouraged me to move home, and if I were to ever do that, they would never demand that I pay them for the priviledge of living at home. I would help my parents out like take my mom out to eat, buy groceries, etc. but to pay rent or to want to take the entire paycheck, that is cruel and mean. I kind of got off on him about that. I told him that if he wanted, he could come and live with me RENT FREE for a while until he got hismself situated. That is how much I love and care for him. He tells me that he doesnt want to depend on me because of pride and because he is afraid. I told him I want to help him get on his feet and succeed by giving him a conducive and supportive environment for him to be able to discover himself, something that his parents nor his job is giving him. I am caring and always will be. Yeah, he knows I am mad at him. No, I didnt talk to him for too long. I dont know what I will do. I care so much for him, it just burns my heart and makes me grieve to see how little nurturing he gets since I think he can do well, if he had the right impetus and nurturing.

As for his parents wanting to take his paycheck and collecting rent, that really burned my ass. He moved home because he couldnt afford to live on his own and after his gf dumped him. He doesnt make that much, they know that, even I know that. That is why I try to help him out when I can. After finding that out, I decided to see if that was just an American thing, since Asian parents DONT DO THAT. I asked my best friend's mom and she (who is white), she told me that it is mainly a midwestern low or lower middle class thing, and that most upper middle class and upper class people dont do that to their kids. She, as a mother, never did that to her two kids. They paid for their education, help them with down payments for houses, condos, etc. Most of the people I work with, who are college-educated, they help their kids out and when the kids do get down and out, they let them move home.

I guess I really dont understand people at all.

I just want the best for my bf and I dont think that he is getting the nurturing that he needs to succeed. It is only so much a soul can take before the soul thinks itself bad. He gets it at home and at work. No wonder he is the way he is. I just want to help him out and give him the support he needs to succeed. I want him to succeed. That is how much I care about him.

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Avatar for northwestwanderer
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Tue, 03-02-2004 - 6:50pm

Personally, I think that any self-respecting adult who lives with his or her parents should *insist* on paying rent to them!

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-21-2003
Tue, 03-02-2004 - 7:20pm
I just feel bad for him because he doesnt make enough money to take care of himself and I am not sure if his parents are doing him good by getting on his case so much. Sometimes, I think in order to nurture someones self-esteem, and to get him to succeed, one needs to nurture someone. I dont know.

Maybe I am reacting this way because I see myself in him. The only difference is that I am trying to succeed or make something of myself by going back to school. I wish I didnt have this need or intense desire to try to help him out. Sometimes, I feel as though I am taking on his problems. I dont know. It just burns me a lot.

I do care deeply for him. I just dont know how to show I care and to stand by and watch this happen to him, that makes me sad and hurts my soul.

I have always been a helper-type person and always wanted to make things better for people.

Can counseling help me deal with him? and help him out with his problems?

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-12-2003
Tue, 03-02-2004 - 7:29pm
Nurturing of the nature you're talking about is called mothering. He had an enviornment to grow and learn in for the past 31 years--what has he done with that?

And I think it's a bit of a leap to judge his parents for wanting/needing money. Do you know their financial situation? Do you know their values? Do you know the whole story? You really only know what he tells you or what you hear--you don't know the history of it.

This guy cannot stand on his own two feet. Having a relationship with someone who is not close-to-complete is dangerous. You are setting yourself up to be his mother, not his girlfriend. And with all the stress you have talked about regarding school, work and your finances I would be very careful before you went and offered someone rent-free living. This will double many aspects of your finances.

Many folks have said it before: I think you need to go to counseling. Not tomorrow. Now. You need to figure out what is making you give your all to a situation and a person who is not doing a lot for themselves. I hope this time you'll hear this...

Good luck.

 

Avatar for northwestwanderer
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Tue, 03-02-2004 - 7:31pm

What it can do is help you recognize that what you want to do ("fix" him) is unhealthy, not to mention impossible, because YOU are not responsible for him, nor can YOU do anything to change HIS self-esteem.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Tue, 03-02-2004 - 9:25pm
Sorry but I have to disagree with everything you said - you want to be the rescuer so people will like you and approve of you not because of altruism - it is out of neediness - you don't think you are worthy of love just on your own so you give give give so that you can control the situation and then expect things in return and expect to be approved of because of all you've done. I think your bf is being very tolerant of you because you are being so controlling - almost worse than his parents - he needs someone to stand beside him and be supportive of his efforts to help himself - he doesn't need you helping him out financially or emotionally - you are not his therapist or his mother and you are playing both roles and that would be a huge annoyance/turn off to me if someone patronized me that way.

he is living at home because he does not want to grow up - he is using the artist thing as an excuse - I know many many artists here in NYC - they struggle - they wait tables - they do temp work - whatever needs to be done to support their artistic endeavors - and I am impressed with that - I am not impressed with a 31 year old adult male who is still having turf wars with his parents, does not pay a dime of rent (and yes he should pay rent - he is an adult for goodness sake and they probably will not ask for market rate!) - and would prefer to act like a teenager so he can live rent free. it is not his room - it is his parents' home and while they should respect his privacy he is the one mooching off them. And I think your parents are wrong to encourage your brother to live at home to avoid the empty nest - parents are supposed to do what they can to help their children become independent adults once they reach adulthood, I think.

You are going to drive him away if you continue to behave this way and if you move down there and financially support him you will grow to resent him - believe me, if he is not working full time on his art now when he is not working, you supporting him won't change a thing - a true artist has a fire in him/her and will do whatever it takes to develop his/her art. This I know from experience.

You are on a very harmful path made all the more harmful by your insistence that you are motivated out of the goodness of your heart. Think again, please.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Tue, 03-02-2004 - 9:26pm
I think the best thing his parents could do would be to give him 30 days to find a place, loan him the money for first and last months' rent and send him on his way.
iVillage Member
Registered: 02-19-2004
Wed, 03-03-2004 - 9:56am
You said:

"I told him I want to help him get on his feet and succeed by giving him a conducive and supportive environment for him to be able to discover himself, something that his parents nor his job is giving him"

Any environment you can give him that is rent-free and supportive will only ensure he stays as unhappy and unsuccessful as he is today. He needs to be kicked out so he can grow up and realize that the only person that can make him successful is himself. I know some people who are that age and happen to reside with their parents, but they don't live off them. This guy is not grown up, and he is 31! He lacks ambition and desire to improve himself and that is probably not going to change. Why would you want to be with someone like that? And don't say it's because you love and care for him. It is more likely because you don't want to be alone and you really believe you can save him and make him a better person. Like he is a pet project and if you can make him successful, that will make you successful. But what you need to be thinking is how to save yourself, and fast.

You said you have rescuer personaility, and this guy has a victim personality. Both you and he blame all his problems on his crummy job and his ridiculous parents. But he has made CHOICES which put him in that job and still living at home. Most 31 year-olds make much different choices. Choosing to live off of you is no better or worse than living off his parents all this time. Eventually he is going to resent you for being successful when he is not, because you have ambition and work hard. Trust me on this, I've been there.

You will never change this man, you can't. All you will do is waste your money trying. If you stay with him, one day, perhaps when you are past your prime, you will wake up and realize he is a teenager and just wants a mother, and that you are a woman who deserves an equal partner.

You need counseling more than anyone I know or who I have seen post on this board. Mostly because you could really really benefit from it. Realizing you are a rescuer personality is a great first step. The next step is realizing that acting this behavior out is super unhealthy and will never, ever lead to true happiness with yourself or in a relationship.

Take it from me, a woman in her 30's soon to be divorced from a guy not horribly unlike your bf. A super nice person, by the way. We have a beautful 3 1/2 year old dd, and he is a great dad. We share custody 50/50 and I am paying spousal support and child support to him because although I supported him through his masters program at an ivy league school, he went out and picked the lowest paying, easiest job he could find in his field. The spousal support ends this summer, but the child support is for the next 15 years. DON'T END UP LIKE ME!

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 03-03-2004 - 12:20pm
What you fail to realize is that there are reasons for his parents' actions. You go on and on about their cruelty, but you don't even consider the strong possibility that his behavior is the catalyst for their frustrated reactions.

"He told me that he was doing fine but that his parents were mad at him about something. His parents had been gone for about a month and they came home this weekend. He told me that when he got home, he found that his mom had taken the TV set and DVD player out of his room and appropriated it and threw some of the stuff that he had on the kitchen table, in his room."

I'm sure they told him exactly why they were mad at him, and he didn't tell you because he is ashamed and embarrassed. He only told you what they did in response to some behavior of his, not what he did. Now why would they react this way? Because they are "cruel" and hate their son? I don't think so. Likely they came home to a messy house, his chores not done, his stuff strewn all over the place. Likely they confiscated his tv because they are disciplining him like the child he is.

"To top that off, while I was on the phone with him, his mom starts screaming at him about stuff and getting on his case."

What stuff? Why is she so angry? Likely because he is chatting on the phone when he still hasn't done his chores or completed some other responsibility.

"They nag at him and basically treat him like a kid."

How else should they treat him? Kids are immature but that's normal for children. An immature man of 31 who has no ambition, lives with mom and dad, works at a low wage job he hates (and don't think for one minute that his boss gets on his case for no good reason either), and does nothing to improve his situation is a loser. His parents know this and are doing everything they feel is appropriate, short of kicking him out, to push him into growing up and taking some responsibility for himself.

They don't want money from him because they need it to survive. They want him to pay rent to start teaching him responsibility, independence, and to instill a sense of pride in himself - something they failed to do 20 years ago. It isn't that he doesn't get enough nurturing from his parents - it's that he GOT TOO MUCH NURTURING for too long. A synonym for nuture is "nurse" and it's long past time he was weaned.

They are not destroying his self-esteem - they are trying to help him GET some self-esteem. But you are doing the opposite, offering to support him financially, etc. He's even told you that his pride won't allow him to sponge off of you - so at least he has enough pride not to let that happen. I'll wager he knows that if he did, he would just replace his nagging mother with a nagging girlfriend. He probably figures he's better off with a nagging mother than he'd be losing what little manhood he has making that exchange.

Exactly how do you think he feels to have his GF flat out tell him that she doesn't think he is man enough to make it in this world without her tender nuturing and support in every way? How do you think he feels when his GF tells him he has cruel, nasty parents, and that he is a poor, mistreated, helpless loser who can only be saved by his Princess Charming who will charge up on her white horse to rescue him and keep him from all harm in this big bad world? In essence, that's what you're saying and trying to do, and it souns more like the behavior of a wolf in sheep's clothing to me.

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-21-2003
Wed, 03-03-2004 - 12:49pm
I am not a wolf in sheep's clothing. I am not out to destroy him. It is just that I always hear about how mistreated in life he is. He tells me that his mom gets on his case a lot, treats him like a kid, etc, the rest of his extended family look down on him and treat him like a kid, people in general make fun of him and how he looks, disrespect him, etc., and that his boss makes fun of him, disrespects him, etc. He told me how his ex of 7 years finally gave up on him and dumped him because of she thought he would never amount to anything.

I know how it feels like to be kicked around and looked down on by people. People do the same to me, mainly because of my height. I have tried to fight back by doing well in school, getting a BA in history and english, and gotten a semi-decent job that pays ok and stayed in it for 6 years. I am now trying to finish a masters degree in education and am finding some obstacles to it, but I am trying and am not going to give up. Part of why I was able to survive and do semi-ok was that I had loving and supportive friends. My parents are supportive of me in some ways, but they criticize me a lot. That is why I dont live at home. I see living at home as a way of destroying one's self-esteem and ambition.

I just feel for my bf, that he has suffered so much. I do see when I am out with him, that people tend to look weird at him. Part of that has to do with the way he dresses. He dresses in Goth fashion even though he is 31 and he really does act like a kid at times. He doesnt know when to keep his mouth shut about things when he is supposed to, etc. I have told him that if he wants people to respect him, esp people at work, he should dress more professionally and stop acting so much like a kid. I just gave that as an advice. One thing I did promise him is I would never try to change him. I feel bad for him and I see why people treat him the way they do, but he doesnt want to change and I am NOT GOING TO FORCE him to.

My intent in all of this was to give him a loving environment to be able to change and maybe grow up. It is hard to be able to have a good outlook on oneself if constantly all one gets is criticism and putdowns by others. My mom is like that to me. She makes fun of everything about me, from the way I do things, to the way I look, to how small I am, and her friends are like that too. That is the MAJOR reason why I left home to go to college and why I choose to live 4000 miles away from them.

I do see potential in him and I want to find a way to draw out that potential. I am not some wolf in sheep's clothing.

I do have one question. I have noticed that since I have started to date him, my ambition has dropped and I am having trouble with school. I want to know if sometimes dating someone who is so negative and somewhat unambitious, can that have an affect on your own ambitions and life goals???? I am not looking to dump him. He is a really nice guy to me, one of the nicest I have ever met in my life.

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-19-2004
Wed, 03-03-2004 - 1:16pm
Chances are he never WILL amount to anything, but that is because he CHOOSES not to amount to anything. Look at all you have done to counter the obstacles you face. Moving out, getting an education, improving yourself. He has not does these things, because it's hard, and he doesn't want to. Having you there cheering him on is not going to make him do it either. You can't be his mother and his girlfriend.

You say you don't want to change him, but that also you want to give him the environment he needs to realize his potential. Well, that would be changing him. And he doesn't want to change. So give up now before you waste 7 years trying to realize what his ex and everyone else already has.

You are probably having a hard time with your goals becuase you are spending so much energy figuring out why he doesn't have any and how you can get him to have some. Stop now before it is too late. You can't fix him, only he can do that for himself and he doesn't want to. Tell him to call you when he does figure it out. By then you'll have your masters and if he grows up and doesn't need you to support him, that would be a great place to start a relationship from. Now is not the time for that though.

And he is nice and treats you nice, that is great. But you can find someone who is nice and treats you nice who also has similar ambitions and goals to your own, and won't be a financial drain, or distract you from what you think is really important. And someone who WANTS to act like an adult WITHOUT encouragement from others.

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