What the heck does he think he's doing?

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-04-2004
What the heck does he think he's doing?
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Mon, 08-09-2004 - 12:50pm
My boyfriend goes out of his way to be "friendly" with homely girls, saying he's doing it to bolster them and it's really altruistic so it's a good thing, not a bad thing. I am not jealous, but here's the problem: homely girl at the health food store that he always goes to thought he really liked her because he always flirts (I am friends w/a couple people that work there, so I know more than what he tells me). She developed a huge crush on him over time, and it developed more and more so soon everyone at the store knew about it, and they even thought he liked her, too. She was so sure, she even went so far as to ask him out, and was most likely confused and crushed when he said no, that he has a girlfriend. So, in the end, his eleemosynary was totally negated. She probably hates him more now for leading her on, than she would have if he had just blown her off or drawn the line sooner.

And there's more: I went in to the health food store with him over the weekend, and in addition to flirting with homely girl right in front of me, he made fun of me in front of two clerks (told them I was high maintenance as we all searched for wheat & dairy free cookies), made fun of me for opening my cookies at the register to break the tension while he flirted with homely. He teases me sometimes, but never like that. I think he did all this because the night before when I was working my night job at a pub, some drunk guy grabbed my boobs in front of my b/f. Of course I told him to back off, but my b/f did nothing b/c he was a ways away and wasn't sure if he grabbed me or the air, just pretending. He told me that he knew it was not my fault, but then the next day he treats me like dog food. This is not the first time I have picked up on passive aggressive paybacks from him when a guy was inappropriate with me at the bar. It's probably the third time in the six months we've been together. How do I talk to him about all this so he will listen and not get defensive, and how to I keep from detonating when he tries to chalk it up to me being jealous (something he likes to say)? Our relationship is otherwise really healthy especially considering he's much younger than I, but he can be really immature at times and I can't stand to let things to preoccupy me for long. Please help!!

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iVillage Member
Registered: 05-05-2003
Mon, 08-09-2004 - 1:02pm
I'm sorry, why are you wasting your time with this manipulative child? It's ok for him to do and act as he pleases, but you are not. He then treats you like a piece of **** when he wants to give himself some kind of boost. He's trying to put you down in front of others to look like he's above you. He likes to flirt with other women, regardless what they look like, because it gives him a boost of confidence. Then he can make fun of them and put them down when they state that they are interested. He enjoys playing games and doesn't care about your feelings or respect you.

How do you talk to him? "There's the door, jerk" Find yourself a guy who's not going to be so disrespectful, will be mindful of your feelings and won't try to pin his behaviour on you. Of course you're going to be angry and upset by the way he's acting, but he can turn it around on you by saying, "you're being jealous". Why are you buying into it? I'm sure you are a wonderful person, why allow yourself to be treated like you aren't? What do you owe him to stick around and be treated like that?

Find a wonderful man who will treat you like the "queen mary of scots" you claim to be.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 08-09-2004 - 1:12pm
He likes the attention..and a guaranteed source of adoration and desire is a "homely girl". Believe me -all my life until recently - I was one!

And he can't control how attached or involved they get in the "fantasy of what if" involving him.

He's flirting because he's insecure and immature and likes all the attention. Which is fine because he's NOT responsible for thier response or perception to and of it.

That you're with someone that is insecure and immature - that indicates your level of maturity and security as an individual. Particuarly in light of the fact that you're being dissed publicly to your face and standing there and taking it.

Face up to something...you're the hottie Mrs. Robinson that this guy is a "stud for getting to DO"...that's how he sees it. And you think your'e a hottie because this young stud is so "into you".

why can't you be satisfied with this for what it is. IT's two superficially attracted people getting it on and because you're each willing to get it on with each other - you feel more positive about yourself.

But as far as things in common go - you two haven't got them. Not when it comes down to the relevant facts and values. So, quit trying to form a relationship, have deep conversations, adn "find things you share" - get laid, have fun, etc. etc. etc.

Erin

quickblade14@hotmail.com



iVillage Member
Registered: 05-04-2004
Mon, 08-09-2004 - 1:29pm
I don't buy into it. I know I love myself, and if he doesn't want to be with me, I am sure he wouldn't be. But, I do know that he is smitten with me, he's just really immature, insecure, and it's doubtful he's ever had a healthy relationship with someone that doesn't play games and what not. I made the decision to work with him, knowing that he's an emotional lump of clay, because otherwise things are pretty healthy and he really does try and shows empathy, even. He also knows if he screws up too badly with me he will get kicked to the curb b/c I take no mess and I am one vindictive b***h when burned badly. This has been made very clear. I am the queen of setting boundaries and he ends up respecting me for it. That's why he's still around. He does back down from stupid comments like the "jealous" one but he always starts out on the defensive when I point out his idiotic behavior. I know he's being a passive aggressive idiot. What I need to know is how to talk to him about him being an idiot, so that he'll actually listen to me and make an effort not to tread there, again, and not get all weird and want to leave in the middle of the conversation.
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 08-09-2004 - 2:34pm
What you're wanting to know is "how do I change his perception of self and life from one of "I am what other people think of me" - to "I am a complete person and waht I think of me based on how I conduct myself is going to determine my destiny".

You can't do it. You say he respects you when you set up boundaries...hello, his mommy sets rules and he obeys so that he continues to benefit...until when out from her tunnel vision - he does whatever he wants or says whatever he wants.

The guy is immature....when people go from being someone's child to being an "adult" with responsibliites and options.....what they do is seek the only "dynamic" they're familiar with. It's inequality based, it's a power struggle, it's a "you provide for me and the benefit you have is me being "around you". Parent/child...that's what it is!

Only, as a parent/child relationship - it works. But it's what you're comfortable with and know as a "relationship dynamic" and so you seek it in the first few "adult" relationships you have.

You want a lump of clay, you want to "mold hiim" - you want make him into th eman you want him to be so that your needs will be met......the thing is - while you might be molding and shaping him while he's with you - he's got his own idea and vision of his potential that he's molding and shaping when you're not around.

If you want a relationship wtih him...you're going to have to wait for him to grow up. If you want to wait - fine. But, you can't speed up the process, and by getting someone incomplete and undefined - don't think that you're getting a lump of clay that will become what you say and want and need because you're older, with more experience, more options, and more ability.

He's going to become who he wants to be....whether you're "molding" or not. He just might enjoy right now the firm touch on his tush.

Erin

quickblade14@hotmail.com

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 08-09-2004 - 2:45pm
Use 'I' statements. I feel X when you flirt with other women. I feel Y when someone makes a pass at me and you then do XYZ instead of talking things out. I need Z from my partner. Don't say you're a X when you flirt. You should Y when someone makes a pass at me. You aren't Z!!

Talk to him about jealousy and talk to him about being defensive. Will he even acknowledge anything or it all your problem? If it's all you and he won't take responsibility for anything himself, walk.
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-05-2003
Mon, 08-09-2004 - 4:56pm
You may need to call him on the behaviour when he does it. If you're in front of others and he puts you down, say to him, "I didn't appreciate that insult/put down/comment/joke" and walk away. Not only will you be standing up to him about it, he will look like the idiot he's being. He may try to joke his way out of it, but it will sink in that you do not want to be treated that way.

Now, if you're at work and someone is grabbing at you, that is something for the management to be dealing with- not some boyfriend. They should be escorting him out and saying, 'you are not welcome here to harrass the waitresses'. Your guy has no right to say or do anything in that situation, it is your work, you are not out at the club/ pub as patrons. So if he wants to bring up the situation at all, I suggest he brings it up with your boss that these men are touching his staff, not trying to put you down for it. I doubt that you sat there and asked a drunk to grope you, right?

If he continues with the attitude after you have set the *boundaries* he will continue to because he does not respect you. It is NOT your job to *mold* someone, it is their job to be descent and respectable. You cannot force someone to change, but you can be honest with how their behaviour is making you feel. It's up to them to change. You need to sit him down and say, "I am respectful of you and mindful of your feelings, I expect the same from you". If he wants to walk away when you're talking about it, won't that tell you his character and his thoughtfulness?

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iVillage Member
Registered: 05-04-2004
Mon, 08-09-2004 - 11:25pm
Kind of like disciplining a dog for messing? I am going to break up with him if he is not willing to listen. I already tried to talk to him a little bit about it - I had made him wait 'cause I was at work. I just told him it wasn't a good weekend for us and that I was sorry for making him wait but could we please talk about it later. Later, I told him I felt the next day after the boob incident, he seemed irritated with me and going out of his way to tease me in front of people and acted like he was embarassed by me or something. Then I asked if he was still upset over the boob incident - and he really raised his voice and said, "YES I AM UPSET ABOUT THAT!" I said I thought so because I could not think of anything I'd done to make him want to hurt my feelings. He told me I hadn't done anything. I told him I thought that he was taking it out on me whether he realized it or not and I wanted to talk to him about the incident because I thought he was still upset and it was starting to get directed at me. He tried to fixate on his teasing me and how that's just what he does and I just need to lighten up, I am so oversensitive. He does tease a lot, because he's so insecure and immature. I don't put up with the teasing because it's not gentle or loving, it's pretty cold and no one laughs but him. Anyway, I was so mad I ended the conversation there, and we never even got to talk about the incident. I am absolutely floored that he's being such an a** about this, after he told me just a few days ago that he's not a jealous guy.
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-05-2003
Tue, 08-10-2004 - 1:15pm
You know, someone once said to me, "we joke about the things that really bother us" and that really put a lot into perspective. If he's the only one laughing that should tell HIM something. You are NOT being *overly sensitive*, you are being cut down and are offended. He can say and do whatever he feels like it to you just because he feels like it? I don't think so! How would he like to have you start in on him in front of others, start making jokes about something- expecially something he's sensitive about.

I really hope that you don't put up with this anymore, he has no right to treat you like this. If he wants to start making jokes, walk away.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 05-04-2004
Tue, 08-10-2004 - 5:55pm
I have been a big fan of "I" language for a few years. It works, most of the time. Other times, people perceive an attack no matter what and get all defensive so you have to keep coming at them from a different angle until you find a way to say it where they will actually hear you. I figured that's what happened w/my bf last night, and I was right. In his immaturity/insecurity, he thought I was attacking him and just complaining about how bad he was. We talked it over, today, and we actually got to talk about how upset the booby incident made him. He apologized and said he never meant to hurt me, admitted that the teasing and what-not is childish, that he really didn't think there was anything I could have done to prevent my boobs from getting grabbed, etc. He is so totally predictable in his fighting style: His M.O. is to get defensive and lash out and make stupid comments when first confronted, then say maybe we shouldn't be together (which is like saying I'm not allowed to disagree with him and is a cop-out/pathetic cry for help all rolled into one), say I'm not perfect, either, and then after all that B.S. he owns up to most everything, apologizes profusely, goes down the list of compliments, and then we make up. It's so predictable, I could set a clock to it. I really have to lead him by the hand through most of these talks but in the end I think we both benefit. He's understanding more and more that this is what people do in a healthy relationship, that I'm not trying to make him feel bad, and that he can speak his mind, too. I just find it frustrating that he's 24 and he's so childish. Bleah!
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Tue, 08-10-2004 - 6:56pm
I'm not sure what you don't get...the guy isn't going to mature and get self-aware, self-accepting, self-responsible, and self-respecting overnight...and he's certainly not going to become those things while having access to the benefits of you and your lifestyle and options - while conducting himself like a child.

If you want to "parent' him into adulthood - go ahead. But you can't "enable" him into adulthood - which is what you're trying to do.

Parenting him says "I want you to be a complete, secure, success, mature, realistic, accomplished person by YOUR definitions and standards. And waht you're doing is wrong and inappropriate and you're using dysfunctional reasoning. So son, right now - you can't live at home, and we're not going to support you because you're not going to schoool but won't work a job, either." I think you get the point.

Enabling him is "Honey, we want you to be successful, secure, and happy and here is the definition for that and what it looks like. So I'm going to give you all the options and benefits of being those things, while I "teach" you how to act in order to get those things on your own." And you'll sit there giving him benefits and "chances" - while he continues with his actions...because let's face it - he's smarter than you. He doesn't need to act like a mature, realistic, successful adult to get the benefits of it - you're making sure of it.

Erin

quickblade14@hotmail.com

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