why are they this way??
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why are they this way??
| Wed, 07-07-2004 - 12:29pm |
Any insight into this would be very helpful. I would really like to understand how and why playboys are the way they are. I attract them for some reason and they are not bad guys...just have a twisted way of looking at things. Do they really honestly like being that way with nothing real ever?? It would be interesting to understand they psychology behind them. Please don't tell me that this is just the dating world these days?! I haven't dated, well, for a very long time. I am coming out of a long marriage and the dating world scared me to death needless to say. Also, what could it be about me that attracts these types??

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So, if a person as an individual doesn't value emotional bond, communication, compromise, if they don't value the intrinsic and existential elements that a relationship offers in life - they're not going to "want a relationship".
Which doesn't mean that they don't want to date - which is just about fun, sex, and companionship and sharing events and interests and that's it.
So if a person doesn't want a relationship - it's not becuase of you or anything you did. It's because they don't wnat obligation, responsibility, commitment, and compromise regarding the needs, goals, nd desires of a partner as an equal in life.
And if you don't think that every date is "potentially Mr. Right" - you won't have such a tough time telling who wants what.
It's that YOU want a relationship, and it is YOU reading into everything they say and do what you want to see/her - that is causing the problem.
Best approach......live your life as if you'll never have another partner...and whatever you think that partnership offers you - go out and get iton your own. That way you'll be a complete person that desires just the companionship of someone else - rather than needs the assistance, completion, or salvation from someone else.
Erin
quickblade14@hotmail.com
Erin,
So we've seen each other's posts for awhile now. Anyhow this realy hit a nerve in me because what you wrote above was how I have been my entire life. With fits of 'yearning' for a relationship. Why i saught these boards, to assist me in becoming more of a relationship person.
But you know what I found out? (I hope in some way this sheds light to someone else)
While you need to be a complete person, you also need to be incomplete in some way - not talking about needy- but incomplete in the respect someone else will be able to fill this part of your life/heart. I believe women/men need to yearn to be completed - not in the respect of needines - but need to have that person to complete them.
How can you ever share a relationship - committed - with someone who has everything on their own? There is nothing there for the other person to offer. Nothing. And I always thought this was ok. its not. And I know this through my many experiences. While I may not have the age and wisdom you do... I do know Ive dated alot in my lifetime and searched high and low for the answers.
It IS OK to feel incomplete without someone. The balance part of this is the hard part for people. It is not ok to feel co dependent, needy, etc... but it is ok for women to want a man in their lives.
As a person, you cannot do everything yourself. Its impossible. It is ok to have a full life an dbe happy. But for people to say you can do everything yourself is just not true in my eyes.
There is something very rewarding about sharing your entire self with someone. i dont think you've ever experience that Erin. You are a classic committment phobe. And I don't mean that in a negative light. I know this because I spent alot of time working on this myself. But for people on these boards who want to share a relationship - they want more than just that companionship. that doesn't make them less of a person or needy as sometimes I read in your posts to people.
People do things bc they do what reflects their values/morals, etc . Your motto right? Yes they do, btu also people have hearts in there somewhere. YOu seem to forget that part. People are imperfect and tehy make mistakes and sometimes that does not reflect their morals/values. If you really think back to your life, can you honestly say everything you did was backed up by your morals/values. I would say no. If you say yes, I dont think you've truly looked at your life & experiences.
Because I was involved with an ex while he had a serious gf, did not mean my morals/values reflected this was OK. And that I condoned this from people. No way. IT was mistake I learnt from.
Just thought I'd add some 2 cents in there because its truly scary to read some posts from you that whle very intelligent and right on, leave out the part of being a human- having a heart - and the fact that relationships are ok to want. Relationships are ok to need, and relationships are ok to share more than just companionship.
-S
I have "shared my life" with a person...I'm doing it right now. it's been absolutely the most wonderful four years of my life while in "partnership".
I was married 4 times.....for 17 years from 17 to 35 I was never "without a husband"....but I never had a partner. I dont' believe in this "soulmate" thing but that's another issue.
Always looking for salvation, security, completion, identity, happiness "with someone" doesn't work. I took a few years and became someone I trust to do right by me at all times, I defined my values and learned taht situations are the stage on which we play out our values with our actions - situations are not the "reasons we do what we do".
I took those years and became my "best friend" and once that task was well on track (it's never "completed" I'd say) I found that I desired to "share my victories and my sorrows" with someone.
I wasn't looking for what I used to seek and prioritize - I was looking for someone different. Someone "like me now" - not like I was then, and certainly not like the polar opposite counterpart of what I had been that I was so able to attract, back then!
I found him....someone that doesn't have to share my every opinion or view - to have my profound respect and admiration for who he is as a person. Becuase he knows himself so well, because he lives as he does - because he is "like me".
I do understand the emotional component of wanting someone to share life's joys and sorrows with. To know that someone has your well-being and best interest at heart - as you individually determine it to be. I really do get that.
But it is a fact that some people will never find that someone. If you believe there is "one person" out there that is right for you - it is possible that in a period of dysfunctionality or while in another relationship - that person and you met like ships in the night. If you believe that there are lots of people out there that are right for you - it's going to depend on you always "being yourself, pursuing and achieving a great life" in order to meet them - so that they share your interests, your values, your definitions of a great life and how to pursue it.
Really, all I did was take the Dahli Lama principle and apply it in full "The greatest relationships are based in equality. For that to be, the desire for each other must greatly outweigh the need for each other." I sought to understand that on the existential level....and I figured out there is balance in that position.
You'll never become what you don't make of yourself. You'll never have what you don't provide to yourself. You'll never be more complete, more secure, more successful, more identified to others - than you are with you, to you, thru you and for you.
In being a "complete me" - I take complete joy in my life with him......and the same is true. As he has said "If I were responsible for your happiness, I'd be terrified. I didn't realize that until I met you because you're the first woman I've been with in a relationship who was happy before I came along and would be happy in spite of me leaving."
Erin
quickblade14@hotmail.com
I think you've nailed the difference between wanting to be in a r'ship and *needing* to be in one.
Sheri
Your views and life lessons are valuable to many, I don't dispute this fact. But I do dispute the fact you explain in posts that you should be this entire being by yourself and live without needing a partner. True in the extent, you should be happy wiht yourself, I agree! but that does *not* mean you have to be able to provide everything to make yourself happy.
Sometimes you should be unhappy - how would a person ever know what true happiness was? There is nothing worse than being unhappy, I spent many years unhappy, and finally found a pt where i am content with me and my life. But again the pt im trying to get across that your views lack - is the committment between two people where they need each other in very healthy, complementary ways.
YOu may never be able to see this becuase your views, which I am not saying are wrong, are very much a committment phobes view. Singles lives while together. Trust me, I am so happy you've found something that works for you. But from what I know you both are active Committment phobes who can enjoy one another from afar and together when it suits you.
You always have distance, emotional and physical. So you are able to enjoy one another. That is why your relationship works for you two. But that is not real committment. It isn't - and while it a bold/judgemental statement. I have read alot of your posts where you sometimes put in tidbits about your relationship. and I have a good idea of what its like.
You two live very separate lives - but 'enjoy one another' on occasional basis. If i could describe this man, he is wlel cultured, hes maybe had failed marriages as you, hes successful, he likes his power at work (comparable to yours), he digs his alone time, dug his bachelorhood and was still enjoying that lifetstyle. He really didn't like these women he dated who "clung" to him or he thought they were. He most likely attracted very passive committment phobes. And when he foudn you - it was a breathe of fresh air. The female counterpart of him. Which was music to his ears. He didn't have to change his lifestyle one bit to let you in. It just fit since you have such a life you are not wiling to change.
I am not syaing this is wrong at all , no way. I think you are lucky to have found happiness, a relationship you enjoy, etc... But at the same time, its not what many people would call a real committment. You are committed to seeing one another at a distance. Real intimacy, I would argue, there is none in your relationship nor any relationship before. You were always pushing and pulling w/ each husband or boyfriend... never a time where you were able to bond and experinece life together, to need each other, to want one another in a real healthy manner.
Real intimacy is when a person sees you through the most vunerable, heart wrenching experiences, and you are able to express real emotions, able to lean on them for that support, need that support because you know you can't do it yourself. I beg to differ you've experiences this in your lifetime.
Again, not advocating needines which im sure you just saw that example as. But its the opposite, experience real committment and itimacy with someone. You can be a strong, independent person but still need someone. that is my point.
I could be comepletey wrong, but I know it is very easy to deny those things i mentioned and rationalize its the opposite. to see what you've got as real intimacy, committment. It can't be in my eyes. I know this seems extreme in many ways - but its just so much is preached to women to be this or that, to be strong, to be inpendent... but they left out the part where they do need that balance in life to have an opening for a relationship, to need that person in their lives.
How long did it take you to see things that way??
LOL
Katlc
crosbylk@hotmail.com
What most men know is that they'll never be what they don't make of themselves, they'll have never what they don't provide to themselves. Take that out of just the possessions and material/financial element....and you'll see that if they're not successful, secure, happy, and complete in existential definition - they know they won't be in that in any situation.
It's like joy and happiness....absolutely not the same thing. Joy is an emotion based on a situation and your perception of it. Happiness is a pervasive emotional status quo about your perception of yourself and your life and your power in it. You can be happy in the most frightening, depressing, or bland of "situations" if you're a happy person. But you can't be happy in the most joyful, fun, or optioned situations if you're not a happy person.
That's simply the approach I advocate for all women...so that each woman has a great life by her own definitions, efforts, means, and standards - so that "need" is eliminated.
As for him......his background is completely opposite. Married once for 17 years, he's his own boss and always has been in terms of business....I just really got to know him as an individual and thought "this is truly a unique and complete person". He was happy when situations weren't great.....although he did not find the situation itself to be acceptable or right....and from that position of knowing what he did and didn't control, never losing sight of his goals, and always being true to himself....he was a joy to be around.
So, I looked at my life with "his" reasoning...and realized I could do what he did....so I did.
Which made us a great deal alike.....except in background...where we're polar opposite and that is constantly brought to our attention. We've never considered our diversity of viewpoints, background, experiences, or perception of life to be a liability. We simply look at it as two people who were ging to the same "personal existential place" - two took very different routes to get there - and as a result of our partnership we have a huge volume of diversity and assets on which to rely to "get us where we're going".
Typically, we're viewed by others as two people ridden with oppositional viewpoints and thus surely there must be constant conflict. But, as we've always jokingly said - what better combination to be sure of success than an aethist and a preacher's daughter. We've got all the bases covered with that one....we're living in the moment, thanks to his prioritization of each moment...and we're also enjoying the future as it has unfolded - as a result of my belief that there is life after "right here, right now".
Erin
quickblade14@hotmail.com
Best advice I've got for you.....realize that people that are doing what you wouldn't ever do - have values you do not share. Also really accept that alliance has impact.
People do what they do because they want to do it. Their values, standards, and priorities justify and entitle them to their actions, feelings, thoughts, decisions, words, ideas, and desires. Those same values in all situations determine their character, conscience, integrity and honor.
So, situational review is very inconclusive....but if you review the entire scope of someone's life based on the facts - you'll find the pervasive dynamic because situational details change - but their reasoning process, their values and priorities won't - and you'll get a good look at their character and values with thier decisions, actions, and words in a variety of situations where you don't use "details to justify actions".
There's nothing wrong with going out and dating lots of people...if dating includes sex to you - then it does. And you'll feel no regret remorse or guilt for engaging in it you won't be 'expecting" happiness/success/security/commitment/identity/providership/fun to be a result of "dating/sex".
You might consider defining what a great relationship is. To me, it to someone taht shares my values and priorities and standards - so that we're not constantly in conflict abut what is right and wrong. And it's someone that shares my interests and my goals - so that we're not always off doing something else and meeting up for breakfast or for sex. It's also someone who's very "self-defined" - because that means that they're self-aware and self-resonsible - they're not inappropriately expecting that I can bring them ahppiness, success, or security - nor will they blame me for situations that cause upset or unrest (I learned that by "figuring out who I was and that is what I used to do to my previous partners"!)
As you can see.....my definition of a great partnership is equality based and mutually beneficial. What I am expecting and requiring of "him" - I must be also in my own right. That way there is no great amount of concession, sacrifice or loss...while there is always compromise and communication.
But, in the years where instead of defining my values, priorities and standards, figuring out what i stood for, where Iwas headed, what I wanted and needed in life and how I was going to get it successfully and appropriately...I wanted to be an "adjunct" to someone so that they'd provide me with all the things I wouldn't go out and get for myself. The fundamental things like identity/success/security/happiness/lifestyle/interests/fun/providership/social life.
And so I kept marrying guys who had more of those things than I did (which wasn't hard given that everybody had more of those things that I did on my own) and then pursuing thier goals, living by their standards, and prioritizing their priorities.
That got four guys some very good years......while all the while I was frustrated, unfulfilled, anxiety-ridden and blaming them inappropriately. But each of the four guys I married got their "dream".....one guy got a business from my inheritnace, one guy got to live in a very upscsale lifestyle at my expense for four years of his adult life while 'doing nothing, one guy got the insecure wife that clung to him in terror of her previous choices and decisions and actions while she supported his goal to become someone in the profession he wanted to enter, but wouldn't without encouragement. The 4th guy was really the first husband....what he got is a whole other story......but it's relevant only in that where my destruction started was in aligning with someone who lacked values, integrity, character, and conscious to a point that I could not comprehend...and that put me in places, and aligned with people that terrified me beyond reason...and in that position of terror, inexperience, shame, and immaturity - I began to reason dysfunctionally, to prioritize feelings over facts and goals, and start trying to "survive int his moment" - rather than to create a great future while living a great life.
So realize that not everybody out there came from where you did, or wants what you want....and that's not an intimidating or bad thing. But it does mean that before you align and/or collide - you need to define for yourself who YOU are as an individual - so that you never lose that person, those standards, those values, so that you don't step all over your ethics, and destroy your potential nd options.....while garnering enough fear of yourself that you flee in terror into the arms of whoever will have you.
It's important to note: no matter where you go, there you are. So knowing yourself well is the key to success.
Erin
quickblade14@hotmail.com
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