why are they this way??

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-02-2004
why are they this way??
27
Wed, 07-07-2004 - 12:29pm
Any insight into this would be very helpful. I would really like to understand how and why playboys are the way they are. I attract them for some reason and they are not bad guys...just have a twisted way of looking at things. Do they really honestly like being that way with nothing real ever?? It would be interesting to understand they psychology behind them. Please don't tell me that this is just the dating world these days?! I haven't dated, well, for a very long time. I am coming out of a long marriage and the dating world scared me to death needless to say. Also, what could it be about me that attracts these types??

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 07-07-2004 - 2:53pm
I'm not sure exactly where to put this post but I'd like to offer a man's perspective on this. I will say straight up that Erin and I often think alike in these types of issues and I often agree completely with her.

Its perfectly OK to *want* to be in a relationship as long as the relationship itself is not a critical definition of who or what you are as a person. I want a woman that is 100% capable of *being* self-sufficient in life yet is willing to *share* in making the best out of life. I want a woman with confidence to go and take on *her* world in her way while she knows there is a rock and a soft safety net for her when needed. I want her to be a leader and fully grasp the concepts of personal leadership and accountability. I will be her biggest fan and source of encouragement because I can give that as a gift of love rather than it being *needed* as a way to define the person or relationship.

I can not *complete* a woman nor can a woman *complete* me. However we can offer huge value to the partnership as a whole through love, appreciation, affection and the simple joy of doing things together. That to me is what a healthy relationship is all about.

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-22-2003
Wed, 07-07-2004 - 4:40pm
thats because both you and erin have adhered to what society views as this ideal senario of a healthy relationship. what to strive for. I did too. I don't think your view is wrong, I just thinks theres alot everyone is missing in the fact it is OK to need someone. Neediness again is not the same thing as needining someone. What both you and erin describe is neediness to disagree with my post(s). But I agree with that pt, neediness is not healthy.

I think the biggest part missing is the fact you all do not believe in soulmates, in the fact that one person can complete you.

Aside from this view, completion is on all levels, physical/emotional, etc. When we were made we were made to find ourselves apart from our other half. Once we've found ourselves, then we meet our other half who would complete us. Simply put. But I think the problem here is that you all do not believe in soulmates. I believe in many soulmates, but one that you are meant to share a romantic relationship with and there is only one that completes you.

I can agree to disagree with you all. But it hink that both you and erin will not and are not looking for the type of relationship I'd like. A very intimate , committed relationship. Ive had relationships with the type of men you are spiceman. While it was so great they were so accepting of me as this free spirities, independent, strong willed, ambitious person who needed no one... it wasn't fulfilling. and the reason it wasn't was because there was just no need for the othe rperson. Why would i stay in a relationship where it was like being with myself?

Just my take on things.

(ah sorry klt ive butted a huge convo into your thread, just kind of came out of me)

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 07-07-2004 - 5:00pm
Okay, so if you have this "missing piece" of your puzzle...and you never find it - does that detract from the quality of your life?

I look at it from the other side...I have this great, wonderful, successful, secure, joyful, ambitious,fulfilling life and having him in my life is the decorations on the cake.

But cake is still cake, and if all there is "is cake and icing" - I'm just as "full" with that. i

I might be viewing it wrong...but I see your example as being a whole cake, icing and all - with a piece missing that you're unsure what happened to it and what you'd have as a whole if you don't find it being something you focus on...and if you never find the missing piece - you have as much focus on "what is missing" as "what is present" - which wouldn't by my definition make for a really great life.

Again, that's just me.

Erin

quickblade14@hotmail.com

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Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 07-07-2004 - 5:10pm
You're right - I don't believe in Soulmates. However I also think there is a huge difference between being self-sufficient and being emotionally fulfilled. I am 100% self-sufficient in managing day-to-day life and making progress towards my goals and dreams. I don't need anyone to look after day-to-day tasks. That does not mean I would not share these with a partner. I also know that I would need a partner to have emotional/loving fulfillment.

I get concerned when a person says I complete them. To me its like they are transferring some accountability to me for what they are as a person. I have a hard time accepting that as it potentially shows a lack of personal leadership and self-accountability. A person may offer their love to me and want to share in day-to-day life and I would accept that with love and appreciation. I may be able to contribute value, love and affection to my partner but that does not make me accountable for what they are at the core of their being. My partner and I will be like two artists using a single canvas, painting a common theme that will turn into a unique masterpiece. We will share the vision and make the choice to do it together.

I have enjoyed this healthy discussion and we can agree to disagree with no harm - no foul. I appreciate your position.

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-02-2004
Wed, 07-07-2004 - 5:26pm
WOW........this has turned into quite the discussion. This has been very enlightening! I agree with all three of you to a point. I guess I am still in the middle of "finding" myself after a long relationship that was not really one at all. I don't believe in a "soul mate" per say.......again, just those who are meant to come into your life for a reason. To make us develope as individuals and grow to make ourselves stronger in our decisions. Like you Erin, I grew up in a "leave it to Beaver" family with very, very strong values and all and all each and every one of is is a very well rounded and intellegent person. Spice....I agree with you to a point too. But eventually I want a person who respects me and enhances me without crushing my spirit and not letting me spread my wings and sore so to speak. That is what happened in my marriage. My wings got clipped and I lost myself along the way....now I am spreading my wings again and it feels good!!!! It feels like me again....with a new found confidence and a willingness to embrace life and enjoy and take anything adverse along the way and grow from it. I hope I can share that with someone but I won't ever allow my spirit to be crushed ever again.

LOL...to all three of you!

katlc

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-23-2003
Wed, 07-07-2004 - 7:04pm
I see merit in both sides of this debate.

 Start

Avatar for northwestwanderer
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 07-07-2004 - 7:17pm
I agree with this too. I can be *happy* on my own, but I know I am *happiER* in a good relationship and that is most definitely a goal of mine.

But, I also recognize that there is a very high chance that I'm not going to FIND that good relationship. And I'm damned if I'm going to let that reality cause me to feel incomplete in any way. I need to be "enough", on my own and with the non-sexual loving relationships I've created (friends and family), or otherwise, why bother to go on living?

Sheri

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 07-07-2004 - 7:58pm
But I can'tjust "go out and get" things that come in a loving relationship! I can't go out and get somebody who honestly worries about me when I get sick.... I can't go out and get somebody to make LOVE to (I can have sex and I can use men for sex)... I can't go out and get that happy feeling when he says "I love you," and I say it back, because I know we both mean it.

If commitment and marriage are what you want, make that a goal and go after it. Why should finding a good partner and establishing a stable relationship be any less important than finding a better job, or finding the right church, or being able to bake the perfect souffle?


These statements contradict one another. A goal is something that makes you what you were not prior to accomplishing or obtaining it. I.e., until you cross the finish line of your first marathon you're a runner.....upon crossing it you're a "marathon" runner officially. Not just "I can run 26.2 miles".

You're saying you can't force someone to love you, to cherish you, to care for you in sickness and in health...then you turn around and say pursue commitment and marriage and partnership as a goal.

But goals have to be realistic or else they're never realized...and unaccomplished goals leaving you perceiving yourself as a "failure" in some capacity. That is a huge thing in 12-step programs everywhere -particularly CoDA...since those people prioritized "a relationship" as a goal to the exclusion of self thinking that partnership and marriage would provide them with "everything they needed". Not that you fall into that category - but it is worth mentioning.

Goals need to be realistic...and it's not realistic to pursue a status quo that you can't guarantee you'll achieve because it has to be agreed to by someone else in order for you to "be that and have it". Becuase lots of people would be achieving the goal of commitment/relationship/marriage with the "I do" and the external and superficial actions and acknowledgements that say "we're committed"...but in that they don't share values, goals, interests, and definitions of a great life and how to achieve it - what they're committed to is getting what they want via this relationship, and often at th epartner's expense.

Now.....it is realistic to have the goal of knowing yourself well, and being as complete as you can be, so that you know what to look for discerningly and objectively in a partner...so that should you come across someone that views life as you do, and wants out of life what you do - you're able to have the partnership and commitment and relationship you want.

Erin

quickblade14@hotmail.com

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-18-2004
Wed, 07-07-2004 - 11:43pm
This is not just a response to Erin, but to all the interesting posts before. I'll first say that I am generally in Erin's and Spice Man's camp, although to be honest I am not sure whether the disagreements among the posts are real or semantic.

To Surfergirl77 (with apologies if I am taking quotes out of context):

"How can you ever share a relationship - committed - with someone who has everything on their own? There is nothing there for the other person to offer. Nothing."

To offer happiness for their joy and sadness for their unhappiness; to give them a different perspective of the world; to give them your trust and faith and love; to give them yourself with no strings attached. This ain't "nothing." Do you offer your love to a person only if he or she "needs" it?

"But I think the problem here is that you all do not believe in soulmates. I believe in many soulmates, but one that you are meant to share a romantic relationship with and there is only one that completes you."

I really have a lot of trouble with the idea of a single soulmate that completes you. It seems that this would invariably involve judging the person you are in a relationship with against some standard. (Are you the _one_ person I am supposed to be with?) It just seems to me that how much you love one person shouldn't be compared against how much you love another, much less against some absolute standard. There is one quote about love in a book I really like, and it goes something like, "Love is not like water in a bucket that is full or poured out. It's a stream. When it find one path blocked it will seek to flow in another direction, to find another person to love. I would not love you less because I loved her first. I could not." It expresses my feelings on the topic pretty well.

To Erin:

It's not unrealistic to put marriage/committment a priority. It just means that you need to make it a priority to see people you care about, even if, for instance, you are behind schedule on a huge project at work. (I should know, since I am at work right now.) It means that you should take the time to get to know people. It even means making some sacrifices and compromises, not because you are scared of losing the other person but because you care about him/her.

Also I am not sure unaccomplished goals make me feel like a failure in any way. Actually, a lot of times they get me up in the morning and make me excited about my day....

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 07-08-2004 - 11:25am
I totally agree that a committed relatinship with someone that shares your interests, values, goals, and definitions of a great life and how to achieve it can be a priority. It certainly can't be a reality if it's not a priority!

And while yet-unaccomplished goals are the thing that gets you up in the morning and motivated to continue.....unobtainable goals (meaning it is outside of your ability to get it with cooperation/assistance/timing/luck/whatever else you throw in the mix) are going to demotivate and depress you.

Just having been there and done that, I'm familiar with it. Becoming the best you that you can be - for the sake of that alone...works. Becoming the best you that you can be so that you can get a partner in life.....if/when that doesn't materialize is going to leave you devastated and if you're really self-aware - shocked. Because at that point you'll realize how much of your life is "not about you, for you, and structured around meeting your own needs' - and you'll have fooled yourself...that's scary.

That "i don't trust me based on how unaware of me I am" - that puts people over the edge....into 12-step programs, into therapists offices, on depression medication, etc.

Erin

quickblade14@hotmail.com