New relationship, already talking future
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| Thu, 12-01-2005 - 3:39pm |
I met M on 11/12/2005 at a mutual friend's party. We hit it off right away and have seen each other nearly every day since then. We talk at least once a day, usually more. So far he seems perfect for me (but don't they all in the begining?) and we're both on the same page and want the same things. We've talked about all the big basics - kids, marriage, money, etc. - and he's been the one to bring them all up! We're both 30 and complaining of our biological clocks ticking. LOL
So I guess what I want to know is this - in your experience (guys and girls), how often is a guy this forward and open about wanting to settle down and start a family? Is it rare and he's probably just caught up in the "begining bliss" or is he probably serious? How soon is too soon to know that someone is The One? He's already asked what type of ring I like, said that he'd ask my father for his blessing before proposing, told me that if we're still together in a year he wants to start a family together, etc. I've told him ,"one thing at a time". To me, this means (in this order or really close to it):
1. Become an officially exclusive couple.
2. Say, "I love you".
3. Move in together.
4. Get engaged.
5. Get married.
6. Start a family.
Now I don't have a particular timeline in mind as every relationship is different, but I'd like to do things in a certain order, you know? I'm definitely falling in love with him though. :-)

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Marie
Susananne,
Read this thread and all of its posts:
http://messageboards.ivillage.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=iv-rlanswerman&msg=14760.1
Personally, if I guy I knew for less than a month was asking me what type of ring I'd like ... I'd run ... not walk ... because, there's no way in heck that after a few weeks, that he has ANY basis of being able to even talk about anything in terms of future WITH you. Future, in general, sure ... that's reasonable ... that's great to know that someone wants those things. But, if he's putting or seeing you in that equation, at this point, well ... that's just either a) neurotic or b) cruel.
I'm sure it feels very exciting, etc. But, at this point it's all about "feelings, feelings, feelings" ... and feelings are not reality. Reality is, he knows very little about you and you about him ... if you want to keep getting to know him, than you've got to get "real" about the pace of this, and slow it down. Put the kabash on any "future talks" that have anything to do with you and him TOGETHER ... at a month, you should be DATING ... not talking about rings.
If this is "romantic" to you, please take a long, hard look at reality. IMO, it's creepy. You know what they say about whirlwind romances, right? They usually crash and burn pretty quick because one or the other realizes "whoa, I'm in over my head and I don't really even know this person!" (think of all those 4 or 5 month Hollywood marriages, and you'll get the pic ... and yes, those folks are pretty neurotic, because they're used to all the public adoration, that when they get that adoration in private, that's their reality ... it's all about "oh, I so adore you" .... and, heck, I don't really know you, but I know I like it!)
And, I'm not a cynic about love ... it's just that, I believe that you can't in all good conscious starting talking about a future with someone whom you've known for a month. That's a person who's either so desperate to get married that he's lost his mind and is willing to rush into it ... or a guy who is very smooth at telling a girl what he thinks she wants to hear, and if she "bites," he keeps putting more bait on the hook.
There are plenty of things two people can be feeling after a month of dating. Like? Yes. Lust? Yes. Infatuation? Yes. Enjoyment? Yes.
But, love ... that takes time. And, who in the world would start talking in the context of "future" (and putting you in it) with someone they don't love!?
To love someone, you have to know what the other person values, their character (which is only demonstrated over time and observation), their goals (as evidenced by their lifestyle and plans). As for falling in love with him, no ... sorry, you're not. You're falling in "deep like" ... you like the adoration, the feelings, the chemistry, the connection ... but, people just can't be IN LOVE with someone practically overnight. And, just because you've spent practically everyday together does not mean you REALLY know him. What feels like "love" ... perhaps you'll look back on and realize you were head over heals in "infatuation" ... but, that's not love. Not by a long shot.
Of course, if you're someone who believes in the romantic notions of "love at first sight" etc ... then, there probably isn't much anyone here can say that will encourage you to see it differently. All I can say is that, anything worth having is worth earning and working toward ... and that includes love. It doesn't happen overnight, and when two people believe it does, once the "magic" wears off or one or the other person's head comes out of the clouds, it crashes pretty darn fast. Because you've been so swept away "in love" neither of you have realized that you really don't even know this person!
Slow things down, and proceed with caution.
You three make good points. Believe me, I've been burned enough in the past to know to look out for that. I just don't want the bad behavior of others to ruin this "begining bliss" time for me, you know? ;-)
I guess I also forgot to mention that we *have* talked about being exclusive, we just *aren't* yet. Basically we've said that we're not interested in anyone else and we'd feel a little jealous if the other person was. We got together again last night and talked about that a little more and he told me that he wants to have *the conversation* tonight.
Also, when we talk about "the future" it's just fun talk. We agreed to actually *take* the relationship at a "reasonable" pace. For instance, we both live with our parents - me because I can't afford to live by myself and none of my friends can afford 1/2 the cost of living; him because he's saving for a house or condo which he plans to buy in 6 months to a year. Depending on the state of our relationship, I may move in with him then or I may wait until later. Then I think a couple live together at LEAST 6 months (preferably a year) before getting engaged to make sure they're compatable living together. (Anytime I've ever lived with a guy we've known within FOUR months whether it was going to work or not!) Then, once engaged, the couple should pick a date (no less than 6 months in the future except in extenuating curcumstances) together based on the details that they want in their wedding - venue availability, season they want, special days, etc.
Oh, and about not falling in love yet... I think that the things you mentioned - deep like, for example - are all *stages* of falling in love. Sometimes we never make it past those early stages; sometimes we do and it turns into full-blown love. Before you can love someone you have to be able to trust them, and that's something that comes with time. I always give a person some trust up-front and it's up to them whether they abuse that and lose my trust, or behave well and earn more trust and, therefore, my love. He's doing great so far... he takes me out on dates where we get to interact and get to know each other better, he's always on time, he calls when he says he will, he doesn't have any of my deal-breaker qualities (in fact we have the same deal-breakers), he's considerate, gentlemanly, polite, can talk with my parents, etc... all of those begining-of-the-relationship things that we look for. :-)
So not to fear... LOL Although I'm having a blast being smitten and liking him a little more each time we're together and I discover something new that I like about him, I'm also keeping my head on my shoulders and doing reality checks to make sure that I don't move too quickly. Things are going so well and I don't want to ruin them by rushing. :-)
<< Also, when we talk about "the future" it's just fun talk. We agreed to actually *take* the relationship at a "reasonable" pace. >>
Well, that's good to hear! Just be careful of these "future talks" at this stage. Even if they're in a joking manner ... because, even when we're joking around and having fun, there's some some grains of TRUTH in there. And, you guys may be doing it in a fun manner, but ... there's still some putting the cart before the horse here, even if it's in a fun way, when talking about your "future" together when you've only known each other a month.
I guess what I'm saying is, what's the point in even saying those things? Why not just go with the flow, enjoy it for what it is, keep getting to know each other, re-evaluate, etc along the way ... and when it's serious, exclusive ... perhaps 6 months - a year down the road ... when you actually have an accurate view of each other's values, priorities, goals (individual and common), character, etc ... THEN, start having these talks.
You know that you're on the "same page" ... that both of you see marriage, etc. down the line. You know that about each other as individuals. At this point, ENOUGH SAID. You know that much ... so, what's the point of putting yourselves on that page TOGETHER, at this point? It just seems like a set-up for disappointment, if things don't work out. Not that I'm saying it won't work out ... but hey, there ARE no guarantees!
These are the things that we hear here on iV where the girl is so upset that, after 6 months, they've broken up and she says .... "but, he said x,y,z" ... all that means is that one or both of those people got "ahead of themselves" ... and planted seeds in each other's minds that they really had no basis for doing so at that point in the relationship.
<< For instance, we both live with our parents - me because I can't afford to live by myself and none of my friends can afford 1/2 the cost of living; >>
Please, I urge you to NOT live with a man if you cannot afford to live on your own. You put yourself in a position of having to a) possibly depend on him, b) a high likelihood of an inequality-based relationship forming. That doesnt mean that you both have to have equal incomes, but ... it's a much more ideal situation if you KNOW that you are there NOT because you wouldn't be able to afford it otherwise. He'll know that he's in a "higher up" position if he knows that you wouldn't be able to afford it without him. That's when possible power struggles can come into play (I've been there, from the position of being the one who owns the house).
If you wouldn't be able to afford it on your own or with a friend, then ... how is moving in with him going to put you in an "equal" position?
<< Then I think a couple live together at LEAST 6 months (preferably a year) before getting engaged to make sure they're compatable living together. >>
Read the following links:
http://members.aol.com/cohabiting/
http://love.ivillage.com/snd/sndcouplehood/0,,mhrq,00.html
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5025_qa.html
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5025b_qa.html
There are some vital statistics and research that shows exactly why most cohabitating relationships don't make it to the altar and actually have higher divorce rates if they do end up in marriage.
I've been a huge advocate against living together prior to committment here on these boards (search out my posts, if you'd like). Exclusivity is not the same as committment. Nor, is living together a "trial run" prior to marriage. I'm a FIRM believer that two people should not live together UNTIL there is committment, and if people would take heed to this stuff, they'd spare themselve A LOT of heartache and turmoil.
That said, I'd agree with the 6 months part of it ... but, only AFTER getting engaged. Then, a committment has been made. You can test the compatibility parts of it by staying over at each other's homes ( but, since you live with your folks, so that may not be possible).
Which is another reason why you really should live on your own before living with a guy. Sounds like you have, in the past, but currently, you're both with your parents. (I might have missed how old you guys are in a previous post)
<< Depending on the state of our relationship, I may move in with him then or I may wait until later. >>
At BEST, if he sticks with his plan and buys a place, then ... start spending time at his place ... test the waters of compatibility under the same roof whereby you BOTH have your own places ... and THEN, decide if it's is in the cards. Seriously. Two people who are compatible outside of living together will very likely be compatible living together ... if you spend time at his place or vice-versa, you're going to be able to see if he's sloppy and you're neat ... if he leaves his socks all over the place or the dishes in the sink for days. Those things are negotiable and fixable, but compatiblity really has nothing to do with it. If you're compatible in values, goals, lifestyle, his "habits" and yours will be workable.
But, at this point, neither one of you is in a position to be thinking this far ahead, anyway. The logistics aren't even in place for this to be a consideration yet. When either one of you has your own places, then ... it's something to start considering.
<< (Anytime I've ever lived with a guy we've known within FOUR months whether it was going to work or not!) >>
Ok, so ... you've lived with guys in the past ... and, you've only been able to figure it "if it's gonna work" based upon living together. And, when you discover that it's not going to work, you have to "up and out" ... find another place to live, all the logistics ... all for the "trial run" of it? That's exactly what I mean in saying that couples mistake living together as being a "trial run" of compatibility ... when, that's not really the point. Unless you really enjoy moving!? ;-) People who do it "smart" already know whether or not they're compatible ... there's no need to move in together to figure it out.
Anyhoo, take it with a grain of salt or take it as legit advice. :)
<< I totally agree with you about not a believer in living with someone before marriage. Those types of relationships the majority of the time don't make it to the altar or create a mentality that marriage is only good while it is fun and easy >>
Yep, pretty much. I'm for living together before marriage only if there's a) an engagement and b) a plan for getting married (ie, a date and it's being planned)
The other exception is that both people are committed and have agreed that marriage isn't in the cards for them, but they want to be together and have made that committment. After all, not EVERYONE is into getting married. Some people simply don't see it as the "goal" or don't believe in the institution of marriage. And, that's fine too. Basically, they're partners in life but without the marriage license. There are many couples that are very happy together without tying the knot. Goldie Hawn & Kurt Russell are a good "Hollywood" example. My ex-BFs mom and her partner have been together for 20 years, own properties together, a business, etc ... but, aren't married and aren't going to get married ... and they have an exemplary, totally committed relationship.
Anyhoo ... on a related, but slightly off topic, topic ... don't even get me started on 'long engagements' (ha!)
Just a couple of questions...
With the amount of money make (or even *could* make) vs. the cost of living on the South Shore of MA I could never afford to life *all* by myself but I could manage it with a roommate. So according to what you were saying, I could never move in with him because "you cannot afford to live on your own." Or is being able to make it with a roommate okay?
Are you saying that, of my "steps", you'd switch Moving in and getting engaged so that they were as follows?
1. Become an officially exclusive couple.
2. Say, "I love you".
3. Get engaged.
4. Move in together.
5. Get married.
6. Start a family.
And lastly, a comment. ;-) I never had to do the moving out... It was my apartment that the guys had moved into and then, therefore, had to move back out of when we broke up. Hee hee hee...
~Susan
>>Anyhoo ... on a related, but slightly off topic, topic ... don't even get me started on 'long engagements' (ha!)
What do you consider to be a "long engagement". I'm totally not into them - I think that as soon as a couple gets engaged that they should set a date 6-12 months into the future with the only things "allowed" to "hold up" the wedding being:
1. church/reception venue availability,
2. month/season in which the couple wants to get married,
3. amount of time needed to get the gown, but I think this one is a stretch
What are your thoughts?
<< So according to what you were saying, I could never move in with him because "you cannot afford to live on your own." Or is being able to make it with a roommate okay? >>
Roommate is the same as on our own. By "on your own" ... that doesn't necessarily mean living ALONE ... the difference is, with a roommate it, it doesn't hold the same expectation or obligation as with a BF. The expectation is to split the costs, the rent, whatever ... but, you're not hoping for a future with your roommate, right? Changes the dynamics completely.
So, unless you could afford to live on your own ... NEVER, ever move into a guy's place ... because, if it doesn't work out ... you can end up feeling stuck and dependent on him.
If you can do it on your own, then ... if it doesn't work out ... you don't have to worry about financially being ok. You have the ability and resources to get on out and get another place. See the diff?
<< Are you saying that, of my "steps", you'd switch Moving in and getting engaged so that they were as follows? >>
Yes. In other words, don't use living together as a trial run. It's not. If you move in together, and then hope to get engaged, statistically ... you're reducing that chance by up to 80% that engagement will actually happen (wow, huh!)
Switch it around, and move in together AFTER you get engaged ... that way, you've got the committment. The stats in those articles I posted before go out the window if you do it the RIGHT way. Of course, nothing in life is guaranteed ... there are plenty of people who get engaged and don't make it to the altar. That's why I said, "don't get me started on long engagements" (ha) ... that's another topic.
<< I never had to do the moving out... It was my apartment that the guys had moved into and then, therefore, had to move back out of when we broke up. Hee hee hee...>>>
Well, there would be no "hee hee hee" about it if you moved into his place. It would be his place and you'd be the one uprooting and moving out. It's your future. Choose it wisely. :)
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