Rules or NO RULES?

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-21-2003
Rules or NO RULES?
11
Tue, 05-31-2005 - 8:34pm

Hi... I am 34 and sooooo new to the dating scene. I've been dating recently and none of them sparked my interest until my most recent date... one of the first people I'd actually like to get to know better.... and I feel as if I completely blew it and have written it off.

I understand the basics... the common sense piece... a date is just a date and to live in the moment with no future expectations.

I've read books on dating ( Even dating for dummies), listened to friends in the same boat, and even read many posts and I am confused more than ever!!! I know in the future, I'll meet someone again I am actually smitten about... and I'm afraid with all the confusion I have if there are rules. I function great in the business world... but when it comes to personal relationships... that's another story.

Officially are there any real dating rules to follow? Are people having better luck following "rules" or completely going by how they feel? I was always one for good old fashion roles and proper etiquette. But in today's world... that doesn't seem to work? HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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iVillage Member
Registered: 10-21-2004
Tue, 05-31-2005 - 11:04pm

I know this is a bit off topic to your question, but ... curiously, why at 34 are you new to the dating scene? Were you married before or in a long-term relationship? I guess I ask because how you approach dating again can depend on what your experience has been in the past and how long you've been 'single' again?

What happened on your last date that led you to think that you 'blew it'?

Anyhoo, I'm not a fan of rules. Reading all those books, et al ... no wonder you're confused! I'd say, sure ... use it as a guideline, but not the gospel. Friends are a great source to talk to about it, because they know YOU ... the authors of these books, etc. don't.

My guideline is go with the flow ... trust the flow of the experience ... keep expectations in check (less is more on the expectations front) ... and trust your instincts.

The only 'rule' I follow is that ... if the ball is in the guy's court, leave it in his court. If you leave him a message, let him call back. Too many women come across as needy or potentially clingy if, let's say ... you leave a message, and he doesn't call back the next day, so ... a lot of gals will call again ... "oh but wait, maybe he didn't get the message, it sounded like the call dropped ... I'll send an email instead" ... I think that kind of stuff drives most guys nuts. Trust that he'll call back if the ball's in his court ... because, even if he didn't get the message, if he likes you, he'll call you ... and if he doesn't, then ... do you want to be with someone who doesn't know how to pick up a phone and dial it?! (ha!)

Just have fun ... I know what it's like to be in your mid-30s and single ... I'm 35 (met my bf last year ... so, 34 too!) ... you really start thinking about the potential of each person you met as a 'prospect' because, after all, "I'm 34! I'm not gettin' any younger!" (ha!)

When I met my bf, it was completely unexpected ... wasn't looking ... he gave me his number ... I didn't give him mine b/c you know, when you exchange numbers ... each person is left wondering "who's gonna call first?" (hate that feeling! ha!) ... so, that's another thing that worked for me when dating ... if you can get HIS number instead of giving him yours ... and you're ok with making the first call ... I think a lot of guys are into a woman who can take initiative and aren't afraid to say "I'll call you." (personally, I like to have my privacy and not just give my number out that freely). From there, just keep the communication level and matched, and it's all good!

Avatar for northwestwanderer
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 06-01-2005 - 2:18am

I don't believe it "rules" per se, but I have determined a couple of dating *guidelines*, if you will, that work for me. I think everyone has to determine what works best for them, however, through trial and error.

My guidelines are generally as follows:

1. A guy who's really interested will not give you any reason to doubt his interest. So, if he's not calling or whatever, he's not all that interested (the whole "He's Just Not that Into You" thing).

2. It works best for me to wait until I've been dating a guy steadily for about 2 months before we sleep together. This is because I get emotionally attached too soon if I'm sleeping with a guy, and tend to suspend my good judgment and this has gotten me into trouble in the past. So I like to wait until I know him reasonably well and can make at least an initial determination as to his character and integrity.

3. Never assume exclusivity or monogamy; always discuss it and reach a specific agreement on these issues (including the subject of online profiles). I am not comfortable sleeping with someone unless we've agreed to be monogamous and exclusive, so I discuss these topics before we have sex.

4. Find out upfront what type of relationship a guy is interested in to see if you're on the same page. I am looking for a serious LTR leading to marriage so I don't want to waste my time with someone who's just looking for a casual dating relationship. I usually ask this question on the first or second date, so it's clear I'm talking in general, not what he's looking for with me (which wouldn't be an appropriate question until a few months down the road, IMO).

Sheri

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-21-2003
Wed, 06-01-2005 - 7:33am

My background is I married my highschool sweetheart and divorced when we were 29/30. I never dated in highschool. I have had one serious relationship... but the guy turned out to be a BIG cheater. So for the past few years... I haven't been looking but dated if someone sparked my interest. I get asked out a lot and the few times I actually felt like there was a connection I've dated... but wasn't into it. I'm perfectly content alone, I have so many great things going on.

Story of my last date: the guy totally pursued me (asked for my number, called all the time, set up a date). We met and were both to busy to get together for a few weeks. We talked on the phone and got to know each other and went on a date which lasted for 26 hours. We both thought the date went great. He seemed so into me that we made plans for the following weekend which I had to cancel. A few times he mentioned his ex fiancee from a few years ago so I think he may not have been over her. After that... he called a few times and I never heard from him again. It was like all of a sudden he completely wasn't into me with no explaination. A week later I saw him out and he said hi and went off with his friends. I was ok with that. Another week went by and no call so I left a VERY nice and sincere message "Hi... doesn't seem like we'll be dating... wanted you to know you are a great guy, and wanted to thank you for opening my eyes to all the things I've been missing. I'm sure I'll see you around this summer. Have fun and be good."

This past weekend I saw him out a week after I left that message. His best friend called him over all he could say was hey I got your message. I'd been meaning to call you... I've been working 60-70 hours a week and this is my one night out. I was very nice and understanding. After that he made an excuse and went off and was dancing with someone. His best friend kept calling him over... he obviously didn't want too so I nicely said ... ahhh leave the guy alone.... and I kept laughing with my friends like none of it phased me - I'd never show it. My friends were so mordified he was like that.

I was very disappointed though because I wanted to get to know him better. But with a blow off like that... I've completely written him off. A part of me wishes he'd call and I'd be very nice. But I know I don't want him in my life because he disrespected me.

This is where all the rules/guidelines come in. I don't feel he did anything wrong. We weren't exclusive. I don't know if it's normal to go out and may be not go out again for a few weeks? I went in with no expectations... but after being intimate I felt if he wasn't interested just say so I'd be good with that or at least call within two weeks and say hi. Like you say... who wants to be with someone who can't pick up the phone and call.

Funny hearing your story... most of my friends are our same ages... and looking to get married and have kids. I've already been married, had my kids (would have more if it meant that much to the guy), and own my own house. Most guys seem afraid I'm so self-sufficient. I think I'm to far the other way now with showing almost no need at all:(

I'm going to go with the flow. This guy did open my eyes and I know a bit better what I want... and have even a better idea of what I don't want!!!

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-06-2004
Wed, 06-01-2005 - 7:44am

I think the other ladies have already given you great advice.

The only things I would are these two things, don't play by rules unless you're playing a game. Guidelines are greta as long as they are YOUR guidelines and as long as you are okay stepping outside those boudaries once in a while.

Second, DON'T make excuses for guys and TRY not to overanalyze things. It's tough I know, it still takes a lot of effort for me not to, but I'm slowly getting there. Usually, overanalyzing leads to making excuses which is why it's sooooo bad. You analyze the situation and start saying well he wouldn't have X if I hadn't Y'd and if his ex hadn't U'd and his Mom hadn't R'd.

Sure psychoanalysis is a great tool and empathy is a great thing, but they don't all together excuse bad behavior especailly when the person behaving badly isn't interested in why they behaved that way.

The bottom line is build a happy fulfilling life for yourself one you can sustain WITHOUT someone in your life. Be happy on your own. If you AREN't desparate you wont SEEM desparate. Date because you HAVE a fabulous life and you'd like to find someone to sahre it with not becasue you need soemone in your life FOR it to be fabulous.

I found the love of my life just when I was loving my life and I had learned to really enjoy dating. I loved being single!!!! But when he came along I didn't mind giving up being single at all. I was nervous and scared and had some relationship baggage to get through but we did and things are great, but I don't think I would have found him if my life hadn't been GREAT without him.

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-21-2003
Wed, 06-01-2005 - 7:48am

THANKS SHERI!!! Funny on the one with waiting two months before you are intimate... I totally know better than that and always felt must have a commitment first before doing that. I've only been intimate with a few people. For some reason... I trusted what he said to much about that... "it makes things less ackward later". I went with my gutt that this was a good and caring guy and compromised my morales on that. We did talk about that the next day and he said don't be so hard on yourself. We made plans for the following weekend and he kept calling... all of a sudden it's like a light switch went off on his side... nothing to do with me. Now to me he is a spineless player:) I don't want to make that mistake again!!!!

For guideline
#1... do you ever call the guy? Or make it all in his court in the beginning?

#2 ... do guys wait a while in between calling? Is that normal or a sign he's not into you?

Are there guidelines about what to and not to discuss in the beginning? Is it ok to let someone know you really like them in the beginning... or keep gaurded until you feel comfortable? I think I may have gone to far in the other direction... I'm always nice and pleasant... but am pretty guarded.

Avatar for northwestwanderer
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 06-01-2005 - 9:31am

Re 1, no, I usually don't call the guy early in the dating process, I let him call me. I want to know that he's really interested as opposed to just being polite when I call.

Re 2, no, I've never found that a guy who's really interested in me waits a long time between calls.

As for telling someone you really like him, I generally would not do that, not because it's the "wrong" thing to do, but because I prefer to take things slowly and take my time getting to know someone, always keeping in mind that yes, he *seems* great, but it's early yet and time will tell. I am not aloof or anything, I show my enthusiasm and enjoyment when we're out on dates, but I don't usually say anything at the beginning.

Sheri

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-21-2003
Wed, 06-01-2005 - 11:11am

Hey Nick91171 - What great advice (and everyone else too). I'm so trying to take the good out of this... I did step outside my guidelines in this situation (in a few different ways) based on my feelings. I really liked this guy and acted on feelings and tried not to be so protected. I'm so over analyzing this. Most of me is proud for really trying... and part of me is mad because I did let my guard down. I'm one to really tell it like it is, but I am just letting this one go.

You made me laugh... I'm trying to over analyze and put into perspective a situation where I know NOTHING about the other side. It's a waste of time. I'm so used to everything being a business situation... and if this were a business situation I'd totally do a post morteum on what went wrong in a nice positive way.

That's the other piece that gets me into trouble... empathy. I truly truly care about people for them... and not just for my own interest.

I have built a happy fulfilling life for myself. I did have a lot of baggage I keep saying to myself why did I even let someone in ... I was perfectly happy alone with my life and close friends.

Sounds like it is normal to have baggage and be afraid. Glad to see you have a positive outlook and found your way!!!!

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-06-2004
Wed, 06-01-2005 - 12:44pm

"I have built a happy fulfilling life for myself. I did have a lot of baggage I keep saying to myself why did I even let someone in ... I was perfectly happy alone with my life and close friends."

You let someone in because part of life is taking chances. And in life, just as in business, the things most worth having often require the most risk.

If you were perfectly happy alone you will be again, this is just a bump, it's nothing to lose sleep over. If you want to share your life with someone it's going to happen. You're going to try and in spite of you being a nice girl and him being a nice guy it's just not going to work and sometimes you'll never really understand why. Sometimes it just isn't "meant to be".

If you can accept that and just roll with it until the right guy does come along, you'll always be happy, you may feel a little sad from time to time, but overall you'll be happy.

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-04-2005
Wed, 06-01-2005 - 12:49pm

I'm curious, you said "I went in with no expectations... but after being intimate...."

How were you intimate?

~pineapple_girl

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-21-2004
Wed, 06-01-2005 - 12:52pm

Hi freshstart,
From what you've described, I don't think you blew it at all. In fact, I think what you said in your phone message was really nice. So, you had something planned and you had to cancel. Life happens. Sounds like maybe someone else caught his interest, dunno. If so, you chalk it up to his loss (ha!) ... you know, timing is everything.

Anyhoo, I'll chime in on these questions, too:

<< For guideline
#1... do you ever call the guy? Or make it all in his court in the beginning?>>

I like to make the FIRST call. From there, it's in his court. I want to be asked out, so ... if I call, and he doesn't ask me out right away ... no biggie ... a little phone conversation doesn't hurt ... I'm not going to assume 'no interest' ... when I met my bf, we only spoke twice after our first meeting ... the first time I called (after the weekend that we met) ... he mentioned that he was going to be at a certain place that week and did the 'if you want to stop by' thing ... I didn't ... and I wrestled with whether or not to stop by ... but, decided that I'd rather be 'asked out' ... so, a whole month went by before we saw each other again and did go out. It would have been easy for me to assume that he wasn't interested, since it took a MONTH ... but, I just went on with my life, doing my thing and not sweating it. I REALLY liked him, but I didn't want to seem anxious.

Anyway, point is ... it's easy to assume, but ... if you just let go of the outcome, and let it flow ... you just never know! All things considered, that month was well worth being patient.

<<#2 ... do guys wait a while in between calling? Is that normal or a sign he's not into you?>>

Some do, some don't. I've dated guys in the past that called A LOT ... that felt a bit smothering to me in the beginning. Personally, I don't need to be called everyday. I think finding someone who can matches your level of communication is key. Even now, my bf and I don't talk on the phone everyday.

So, I don't mind if someone waits between calling. It's nice to be called after a date ... the 'I had a nice time' type of thing ... for me, if someone calls too much, sure ... it's a sign that he's 'into you' ... but, does he have a life? ha! Why would someone who just met me need to call me everyday? That kind of turns me off ...but, maybe that's just me! I'd rather see that the guy has a life of his own and respects that I have a life of my own ... I'd rather talk on an 'as need' basis or to make plans ... in the beginning, that is.

Once you've been on a few dates and things seem to be going well ... just keep the communication level and matched ... that's when, to me, it becomes more comfortable to do the 'how was your day?' types of conversations/calls. If he calls, you call back ... keep it level.

<>

Whatever feels comfortable. Talk about your interests. Find out if there are things you have in common. I'm not too into someone who focuses too much on past relationships ... sign that he's not over it. Though, it's of course nice to find out if someone's been married, has kids, that type of thing (at our age, that's not uncommon, so I'd want to know). But, what I don't need to know on a first or second date is all the details of the divorce, who got what, etc.

Talk about your career, your goals, stuff like that is good. You can get to know a lot about a person by talking about what you want from your life!

<>

Well, I wouldn't come out and say "I really like you!" ... you can let someone know that you like them by showing them ... making eye contact ... that's something I look for ... if someone is actually looking at me when I'm speaking ... and vice-versa. It shows interest. Body language is a useful gauge.

And, I'm with Sheri 100% on the 'sleeping together' guideline. Sex too soon moves things too fast. You're not going to know if he likes you for YOU ... or for getting laid. ha! I didn't have sex w/ my bf for almost 3 months ... and must say, that was a first ... in terms of someone I was really interested in. It wasn't easy to wait, but it was worth it. We kissed a lot, did other stuff ... but, someone who's into you won't mind taking it slow and waiting for the time to be right.

Have fun! ! !

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