Should the girl ever ask out the guy?
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| Tue, 08-09-2005 - 3:57pm |
Ok ladies, here's a question for ya. I just read some lame MSN.com relationship advice article about how it's a great idea to ask out the guy if he isn't making the first move. Personally, I think it's a bad idea 99% of the time. There are some special situations where the guy is perhaps too shy, introverted, and maybe even nervous around you (probably inexperienced) where you could consider making the first move by asking him out. But again, I stress, those are special, specific, and rare circumstances. Almost everytime I think it's a bad idea for the girl to ask out the guy. I'm not closed minded or old fashioned, as you will find out as you read below. I just don't think it usually works out well, and it makes the woman look a little needy I think, even if she's not.
Let me give you some background first, I am not some dating guru here, I get shut down from time to time like any other guy. I'm not a player either. (I'm 27, single, and really looking forward to marriage... to the right woman. I do have some relatively high expectations, but I think they are realistic. There's nothing wrong with having high standards, and I refuse to settle.) Basically, I'm a typical good guy with plenty to offer the right woman; so I'm no geek, but no serial dater/flirt either. Meaning I get my fair share of interested women, but not any woman I want either.
So maybe this doesn't apply to guys like me. Maybe that's why I don't like this idea. If I were more quiet/shy/intimidated by asking a girl out, maybe her asking me out would be very welcomed relief. But if a guy like me was asked out by a girl, chances are I'm probably not interested. The only time this would work for me is if I hadn't had the chance to ask her out yet myself. See, within my social circles I meet different girls from time to time, but mostly I already know them. (work, church, mutual friends etc.) If I was interested, I got their number and asked them out fairly soon after meeting them (a week or two). If I wasn't interested I would still be friendly and kind (not flirting) but I would not ask them out of course. (What's a guy to do, not be friendly to a woman just because he doesn't see a future with her?)
But then there's always that girl or two that have a little crush on me, and they read into something I did or said one time, as if I was interested, and they try to ask me out. If I wasn't interested enough when I first got to know you, why would that change? If something somehow did change do you think I'm that big of a wimp or not gentleman enough to not ask you out? How hard is it for me to just ask for your number? If you say no, no big deal. One date is just one date. But now if the girl asks me out, now I feel bad for saying no.
Here's why: For whatever reason, traditions, by habit, nature etc... It still is not common practice in our society (for most people), to have the girl ask out the guy the first time. Let's be honest, it just isn't very common... yet. Therefore if a girl goes out of her way to muster up the courage to ask me out, she probably really likes me. (Unless she's made a habit of asking guys out - definately not a good thing IMHO)
So it's twice the rejection than if the guy asked the girl out, because it's obvious to both the guy and the girl that she decided to take the initiative, rather than wait for him to ask her out like normal, which probably means she likes him a little extra. Therefore the risk and possible rejection is greater for her. However, it's less risk when I guy asks the girl out, because it's unsure of how much he likes her. Guys ask out girls all the time, some they like more than others. Maybe he likes her a lot, maybe he likes her a little. Either way if the girl says no, then he can act like he wasn't that heartbroken about it cause he didn't have his heart into it much. But again, if the girl goes out of the way to do it, then it's usually someone special in her mind. Plus girls are more sensitive and emotional (in general, don't hate me for saying that!), so they are risking more, therefore going to hurt more if the guy says no. Plus, I have 3 sisters who I love dearly, and I couldn't imagine making them sad like that, so I have a hard time saying no when I'm asked out by women.
So I wish I could tell those women, "Please don't ask me out! If I like you I will ask you, if I don't, sorry I'm just not into you. It doesn't make you a bad person, I just don't see something happening between you and me. So please lets be friends and leave it at that!"
Am I being too harsh here? Do you think me too narrow minded? Am I too old fashioned? Think what you want, but I don't think I feel this way for any of those reasons. I just don't think it's usually a good idea for the girl to ask out the guy the first few times. Make sure there's mutual interest, (ie; you've gone on about 3 dates) then you can ask him out. Now this doesn't mean you can't invite a guy to a party or something like that, just not on a date. Sorry, ladies please just leave the poor guy alone if he doesn't ask you first. He probably sees you as just a friend and nothing more. Hopefully you don't let him turn a friendship with no possible relstionship potential, into just FWB (unless that's what you are looking for). Because I think that someone usually ends up getting their feelings hurt, because someone thought it could develop into something more. This might sound harsh, but ladies, lets not be so desperate. Let's have some kind of standards.
So please ladies, if you have a hard time getting guys, don't start asking them out. They just aren't interested. That doesn't make you a bad person, it just means there a thing or two you could change about yourself to make yourself more appealing and attractive to that guy (or guys in general), that you may have not noticed before. So either move on and find another guy, or ask yourself a few questions (this goes for guys too). Do you have an abrasive personality? Do you appear to have little motivation or ambition? Are you overweight? (Sorry again it sounds harsh, but this is a popular one, it had to be said!) Or it could be something smaller, maybe you pick your nose, wear too much makeup/dress slutty (both big turn offs!), or have bad teeth. Sorry, but I know a girl right now that I would love to date if she got her teeth fixed and lost 20-30 lbs. Her teeth are really really bad. But she's a sweet heart, and has a wonderful personality, but we've been just friends for 2 years. I would never flirt with her, or give her the impression that I'm interested in more then friends, however if she made a change or two I probably would be interested.
Now I know I'm being labeled as shallow and a jerk right now, but I have to be attracted to my future g/f and wife, and right now this woman is just not attractive. I am sorry that again sounds harsh, but I'm just being honest. I can't tell you how many women I know that have a great personality, but have one or two things they need to work on before I could seriously consider dating them. Unfortunately it's usually something physical. BTW, looks aren't everything, and no it's not even the most important thing in a relationship. However, I do look at it as a prerequisite. Meaning, once I am attracted to a woman, it suddenly takes a back seat in importance to everything else, but until I am attracted to her, how can I want to kiss her let alone be intimate? I am sorry, but it's a fact of life. There are literally thousands of women out there that would find instant boyfriends (and men who would find girlfriends) if they'd just work on one or two things, usually their looks. I know men are the same way, either too lazy and fat, or else too shallow and mean. What can you do?
Which raises another question: How hard is it to stay at least somewhat in shape? All it would take for people (guys and girls) would be 30 minutes every other day, and then laying off the big fatty diet! Yes some people have low metabolism/some disease which prevents them from losing weight, but I bet that's a lot less frequent than people claim. Those people with physical ailments obviously this doesn't apply. But to the rest of our over-weight and out of shape country (we are one of the fattest countries in the world if not the fattest), is it really that hard to work out every other day for 30 minutes, and resist that chocolate cake? I am not blessed with a natural buff and fit physique, so I go to the gym 3 to 5 times a week, and I still have a ways to go. I'm not saying we all have to look like models, but how about getting in shape?
Ok, I've ranted long enough. Maybe I should have divided this into 2 different topics? I know I've probably just upset a lot of women, but I think it all had to be said. Hey, I'm willing to hear your comments. Plus I know that us guys have a lot to work on too. Heck most of what I said applies to guys too. I'm not saying that my opinion is 100% right, just that it seems to be mostly true. Let me know if I'm wrong or heck one or two people might even agree with me. Sorry if I've offended or made enemies, I didn't mean to.
-MFG

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The entire concept of Dating has changed from how it used to be when our parents were younger ! Back then,a girl never asked a guy out. However, please keep the following in mind, with the onset of technology and online dating services as a means of meeting people, Women are encouraged to Initiate Contact if they see a man that is of interest to them. What I'm trying to say, is that the dynamics of dating have changed completely. So the values and approaches regarding dating that were once used have been replaced with new societal values.
If it weren't acceptable for women to pursue or contact a man they were attracted to, online dating would have been history a long time ago !
The reality is, online dating has become a very big booming business that millions (underscore) of single people participate in, male and female.
I don't really think that's the case. I might "wink" at a guy first on a dating site, but I still let him make the rest of the first moves. A wink online to me is no different than smiling and being friendly to a guy in person, thus indicating that I'm receptive to his interest.
Contacting is very different from pursuing.
Sheri
I agree with you.
I've been saying it all along and it's good to read a man agrees.
I've always been taught by my mother and my brother to let the guy come after you.
Let him work for you.
If he's not asking you out, chances are, you're more into him than he is into you.
I see it all on the boards about a woman asking a guy out. No. No. NO!
Don't do it. Just because he says yes, there is still no guaranty he's interested.
Men are natural hunters. The shyest of the shy men know how to come after someone they want. It's happened to me and many other women. Shyness is no excuse.
I still keep thinking about my college days with this guy, Steve. Can you say QUIET? Can you even say SHY about this guy? He was all of that. We were in accounting together and he says to me, "We should exchange numbers in case one of us is out, we can call each other up and get the assignment". OKAY. I bit. Seemed harmless enough.
I was never out and neither was he, yet he'd call me every night. Every single night he was calling me to talk. I got freaked out and asked my roommate to tell him I wasn't home and he soon got the message.
But this is what I mean. Women often make excuses. Oh he seems shy and we have chemistry together but he's not asking me out. Well did it ever occur to you that he's not that interested?
I faced this situation where I liked this guy for years but he never asked me out. Turns out, he wasn't available.
So, if he aint asking, something's wrong.
Yes,
I agree. I remember this guy I was in school with. He was so shy, he wouldn't look at me. I liked him for some reason my so-called friends were telling me he wasn't interested. I never said anything, or pursued him. I remember on the last day of school, he came up to me & asked can I sign your yearbook. I said yes, and he wrote his phone number on it, and told me to call him in the summer. I didn't know him, just knew of him, we didn't talk, we weren't friends or anything. Over the summer before we went to college, we got together a couple of times, with friends that were in our circle, still nothing. We danced together one time we were out, but still nothing. Came the fall and he went to college upstate, I stayed in the city. I didn't really here from him, we weren't talking everyday. And when he was around, there wasn't much conversation ( he was deathly shy). Anywy, I met my future husband during this time, we started hanging out, and he pursued me. About a month after we moved in together, I get a call from this guy that I'd been crushing on for 2 years. Guess what. He called me and told me that he had feelings for me. The same person who couldn't even look me in the eye. He asked me why had I moved in with this guy. I told him that I cared for him, and he said what about us? I told him, what about us, I didn't even know that he liked me. He said that all of his friends were telling him that I didn't like him. So, to make a long story short, he totally confessed his heart to me. Although it didn't change my mind, he was too late. I still think about him, but I was proud that even in his severe shyness, he still got the nerve to call me & tell me this. So, I have this experience and the lessons that no matter how shy a guy is, and this guy was young and inexperienced, you're never gonna' tell me that a shy grown man can't ask a girl out. Please, give me a break! If they like you, they will ask you out, if they want to call you and you're on their mind, they will call. If they want to be with you, they will just do that. That's why I posed my question to MFG. Maybe he'll tell me that this guy that I like now is nuts!
Mysterious32
To everyone,
I clearly have absolutely no ability to phrase things the right way, because I am getting misunderstood. However, I will try one final time.
1.) Let's define the word generalization. Straight from dictionary.com it says, " A principle, a statement, or an idea having general application."
Let's translate: A generalization = something that applies to many people, but not all. So yes, what I said does NOT apply to ALL. It applies to the majority. I think I said that about 10 times in my post. You are still allowed to disagree and I will respect your opinion. However, go take a poll of guys from across the country, and I am positive that most guys care about their gf/wife's physical appearance. Some grade it more or less important than others, however my point still stands... for the majority.
2.) Taking my first point lets apply it to what I've said. First, not all men care that much about a women's looks. There are some who are capable of looking past the exterior completely. I wish I were able to do that. Unfortunately I am just not built that way, and I think it's a fair statement to say that most men aren't either. Not all, most men. This doesn't mean the outside is the only thing either. I promise you most men (including me, contrary to popular opinion) care MORE about the inside, but also care secondly about the outside. If you took two women, one with only good looks and no inside qualities, and the other without good looks but with a bunch of great inside qualities, most men would take the second girl, because men know that good looks only take you so far. It's literally only skin deep. However, we are now caught in a catch 22.
Both men and women want the complete package, but how can we demand perfection when we ourselves aren't perfect? Of course it's stupid to expect anyone to be perfect, but we can hope to be the best we can be and hope to find somebody who strives for that in themselves too.
Unfortunately MOST (not all) men have a hard time being attracted to ONLY what is inside. Most (not all) men have a need to be physically attracted to their gf/wife, regardless of how they define physically attractive. (That can mean that yes, some men prefer plus sized women or one who is short, tall, black, white, purple, blue, etc...) To each his (or her) own! Which brings me to my next point.
3.) I agree that what is beautiful to one man is not beautiful to another. Every guy has different tastes. Some guys like short women, some like tall women, some light, dark, thinner, rounder, blonde, brunet, red head, etc... This is obvious. I don't think it's a stretch however to say that most men would rather have a woman that at least attempts to be somewhat in shape. If for no other reason than for health reasons. You live longer and are less prone to health problems (especially later on in life) if you watch not only your weight, but your blood pressure, your cholestorol, amount of sleep each night, manage stress levels properly, etc... I don't think it's a bad thing to at least try to be healthy if nothing else. Yes the occassional excersize wouldn't hurt, but it's not required. Again, some guys don't care about this at all. I just think that most men do, at least to some extent.
4.) I think if anyone has questions about if a guy (or girl) is interested or not they should please read, "He's Just Not That Into You". I have read some of it, and it's a wonderful book. It has helped out a lot of female friends of mine, and they are so much happier feeling they now understand some more about the opposite sex. I think we could all (including me) use some help understanding each other better. Which brings me to my next point.
5.) I think there is way too much hurt that goes on in this world that could be prevented if we were all a little bit more realistic about those we are pursuing, or would like to date. I believe in aiming high and having high expectations too, but not delusional ones. I have been hurt in the past too (women can be just as cruel as men believe me), and I think it was in part because I wasn't seeing things clearly. There are signs that both men and women give off to tell you whether they are interested or not. Both men and women should just keep their eyes open to the possiblity that maybe he or she is just not that into you. It's a little harsh again, I know, but that doesn't make it false. Truth can hurt, but it's still truth whether we believe it or not.
-MFG
I have one question then for you............
At what point would you dump/divorce your gf/w because you're not happy with her appearance (regardless the reason of why she "got that way")?
~pineapple_girl
Well, golly gee and hecky poo, sorry, but even if you wanted me to ask you out, you can be certain I wouldn't. Sorry. I mean, I might be wrong about you but you seem pretty shallow. I don't think I'm wrong but if you think so go ahead and tell me just so I can turn around and prove to you how I'm not wrong. Especially since everything that came out of your mouth (or fingertips) was shallow. Sorry. Heck.
Good luck finding Ms. Perfectly Submissive.
Dear Osmama99 and Pineapple,
Sorry you both feel that way. Question: Have either of you ever been physically attracted to a man before? If so how did it feel? Was it something desirable or not? Would you like your man to be physically attractive to you? If not, I'm sorry but I just don't believe you. I can't believe you want a guy you aren't attracted to. I just don't believe you. So then why are you pointing all those fingers at me? Saying you don't care what your man looks like is a lie unless you are a blind person. You are right, it's not most important, and to some it isn't even very important. But people by nature would rather like to look at something pleasant than at something that isn't. That's a fact.
Would you rather eat a pile of dirt or a sweet strawberry? Would you rather smell a dirty diaper or a rose? Would you rather sit in a hard metal chair or a soft sofa? Would you rather touch something sharp and prickly or something smooth and soft? I think those answers are obvious. So then would you rather look at something you like or something you don't like? I just think you are being hypocritical in acting like you don't care about looks at all. Everybody cares, at least a little. So is everybody shallow?
For the one-millionth time, physcial looks are not the most important thing, but it is something I look for in a potential mate. If you think I'm so shallow then go out tonight to a bar or club and ask a single man in his 20's or even 30's if he thinks physical appearance is important to him with respect to his gf/wife? How important is it to him that he is attracted to her? Is it most important (then he IS shallow), or is it behind a few other things, or near the end of the list? And don't only ask the poor guy at the end of the bar either, go ask a guy you think is attractive yourself and probably gets his fair share of women. I can all but guarantee that a guy like that thinks it's definately important to be physically attracted to his woman. Maybe not the most important, but definately up there. Ask him if he would like to marry a woman that he thought had a nice personality, but wasn't attractive on the outside to him. We all already know his answer, and it's no different from mine.
That doesn't mean that a girl like that doesn't deserve a man or can't find one. Matter of fact, like I've already said in previous posts, everybody has their own taste in the opposite sex. What one person might find unattractive, another might find very attractive. If I or any other guy saw a girl and decided to just be friends because we weren't attracted to her, doesn't mean I am a bad person. It means that guys have hormones that we were born with and we were meant to pursue women we found physically attractive. It's in our genes. Sorry you find that offensive and shallow. I hope we can just agree to disagree ont this if nothing else.
And if you had read my previous posts on this topic you would already know that I expect my wife (and women in general) to probably gain weight and get out of shape as they get older, and especially once they have kids. I am very aware of what child-bearing does to a female's body. Of course I would love her no matter what. I fell in love with who she is, not what she looks like. We all age, that's just a fact of life. If you've been reading anything I've said, looks are important, but not the main thing.
No I don't expect my wife to bear 4 children (guessing) and still stay in shape at age 48! (for example) It would be nice, but I sure as heck wouldn't expect it let alone say anything about it. I would love her and try to demonstrate that to her any way I could. She's the mother of my children for crying out loud!
Are we even reading the same message post here? Divorce her?!?! I am sorry but are you purposely trying to NOT understand anything I'm saying here? Where in my post did I even hint at ever divorcing my wife? Where in my post did I say looks were the most important thing, or that if my wife doesn't look perfect than I'm leaving her? Where did I even say that I'm looking for "Ms. Perfectly Submissive"? (where did that come from?) What does finding a woman I'm attracted to and finding a submissive woman have to do with each other?!? I think you are reading into this way too much. Get your facts straight before you start accusing people. Or at least try to understand what there are saying before you start throwing stones.
I got an idea, calm down, breathe, go take a long walk to blow off some steam, then come back and re-read what I wrote and at least make a small effort to understand what I am saying. If that is not possible, then I am truly sorry you feel that way still. I still think looks matter to most guys (again not the most important thing but still up there in importance), and if nothing else I would hope to at least marry someone who is healthy. I don't think anybody wants to marry somebody who isn't at least healthy. Do you want to marry some beer-belly obese slob that justs likes to park his butt in front of the TV all day? Or would you like to marry a guy who gets out and is at least somewhat active. Maybe a guy who likes to play tennis, golf, or go bicycling, or even just take a walk through the park with you? I surely don't think out of shape people are bad people, I don't differentiate like that, you seem to think I do. I'm just saying it's important to be attracted to my future wife, and I'm not ashamed to say so. Sorry you feel so differently.
Just because a person cares about physical appearance does NOT make them a shallow person.
-MFG
MFG or anyone else who's interested:
I am kind of new here, but found your original post and the subsequent discussion interesting. I just finished reading them in sequential order.
There are obviously two types of people in this world: ladies and guys. I happen to be a guy (single and in my late twenties). These two types of people are so different that it seems to take a lifetime of experiences with a member of the opposite sex to figure them out, and even then I hear that more time wouldn't hurt.
A year ago, I would have argued (and I still might) that you are wrong about not giving your friend with the extra 20-30 lbs a chance, because I just got done with a 13 month relationship with a girl that I never would have asked out by going on just her looks.
Now, what I think you are trying to say (and I think men in general would agree with me) is that if a guy where walking down a street and he saw a girl that was not attractive to him, he would not ask her out: heck, no offense ladies, but he wouldn't even think about it. On the other hand, if he was attracted to her, he would at least seriously think about talking to her a bit to make sure she isn't completely different than she appears and if she seems to 'fit' with what he is looking for, he'll ask her for her number. My point is that the physical attraction gets his attention because, for the most part, that is all he has to go on.
A year ago in June, a few of my guy friends and I started hanging out with a small group of ladies just for fun. I thought I wouldn't get involved because none of them where "attractive" to me... And at first it was only for fun, but as we got to know these ladies one of the females began to become more and more attractive to me. Now I don't want to offend the ladies, but to make a point I need to be honest about two things: first, she was easily 20 lbs overweight, and, second, she had a large nose. But after two months or so, she and I were dating exclusively. Unfortunately, I felt as though I was settling and ended up breaking it off a year later. I don't regret most of the time I spent with her, and I learned more then I ever dreamed possible. We are still very good friends, and I still love her and respect her. But we are not meant to be.
My point is that her nose became attractive to me (I have still never seen anybody flare their nostrils so big) and the weight became less noticeable, mostly because she lost 15-18 lbs of it (I never made her feel overweight - she told me so – just in case you are wondering), but my opinion of her physical appearance changed (and again partially because she changed, but mostly because her personality and who she is was so beautiful to me). In past conversations about appearance, she mentioned that she wanted a nose job. In the beginning of the relationship I would have said okay, but even a few months into it and even now I would have her no other way. It defines her. And if I love her, then I love that part of her.
Sorry, I have said a lot without meaning to, and I hope I didn't offend anybody. The thing to remember is that relationships are never the same. You can't categorize them or define a particular one without being in it. So what may work for me may not work for you.
nimetero
PS In my experience when a female has asked me out, it only ended up making things really weird and uncomfortable between the two. But if I do the asking out, then I can force myself to act normal around the girl after she rejected me, and it works out a lot better for us both.
Ok, first of all, my issue is not with you wanting to find a girl that you find attractive. I would totally be a hypocrite if I said that. I want to be with a man that makes my knees weak and my heart start beating faster (and other physical reactions that are too delicate to mention here ;-}) when I look at him. I have no interest in being one of those couples that started as great friends without a physical attraction then one day *boom!* it hits me and the attraction is there. Nope, not me, I want it from the start. And it's all relative. For example, I thought my xh was beautiful (still do but have a harder time saying it for he's not beautiful on this inside) yet my friend just can't see it. She physically cringes and screws up her face in a "eeewww" way at the thought of him. Different strokes and all that.
What rubbed me wrong in your post is that you seem incredibly full of yourself. And you assume way to much and expect everyone else to be on exactly the same page as you.
"But then there's always that girl or two that have a little crush on me, and they read into something I did or said one time, as if I was interested, and they try to ask me out. If I wasn't interested enough when I first got to know you, why would that change? If something somehow did change do you think I'm that big of a wimp or not gentleman enough to not ask you out? How hard is it for me to just ask for your number?"
How is she supposed to know you are not one of those shy/intimidated types? Do you meet someone and start out saying "Hi, I'm MFG. Just so you know, I judge girls that ask guys out. I read it as needy and desperate so don't do it even if you think I'm cute and would maybe just like to catch a movie or go bowling with me. I am man enough to ask you out if interested so, please hold for further interest. Thanks, nice to meet you." I'm sure you don't.
Yet, a girl is just supposed to know that about you right? Just like you know that if she asks you out she "likes you a little extra"? Maybe she's just an extrovert. Maybe she just asks out guys she likes a lot and some she likes a little because she's not old fashioned or close minded or feels the need to play the "fair maiden" role. Maybe she's into creating her own social life rather than waiting around for numbers to be taken and phones to ring. DO NOT assume that if she asks you out she's got her china patterns picked out and is doodling her name with your last name. Maybe she's just hungry and thinks you'd be a cool guy to do to dinner with.
"...because it's obvious to both the guy and the girl...she likes him a little extra." Obvious to whom?!
You said "Am I being too harsh here? Do you think me too narrow minded? Am I too old fashioned? Think what you want, but I don't think I feel this way for any of those reasons."
Why even ask if you already feel like you are none of those things. You obviously don't really care to hear others opinions, you just want to state yours.
"lets not be so desperate. Let's have some kind of standards." That goes both ways, my friend.
"So please ladies, if you have a hard time getting guys, don't start asking them out. They just aren't interested. That doesn't make you a bad person, it just means there a thing or two you could change about yourself to make yourself more appealing and attractive to that guy (or guys in general), that you may have not noticed before."
How condescending is that?! Your whole post just stinks of arrogance, which I find completely unattractive. Confidence, good; conceit, bad.
And as for my submissive comment:
Submissive: characterized by tendencies to yield to the will or authority of others.
'"Please don't ask me out! If I like you I will ask you, if I don't, sorry I'm just not into you. It doesn't make you a bad person, I just don't see something happening between you and me. So please lets be friends and leave it at that!"'
"Sorry, ladies please just leave the poor guy alone if he doesn't ask you first."
"So please ladies, if you have a hard time getting guys, don't start asking them out. They just aren't interested. That doesn't make you a bad person, it just means there a thing or two you could change about yourself to make yourself more appealing and attractive to that guy (or guys in general), that you may have not noticed before."
"Sorry, but I know a girl right now that I would love to date if she got her teeth fixed and lost 20-30 lbs."
"..., however if she made a change or two I probably would be interested."
"I can't tell you how many women I know that have a great personality, but have one or two things they need to work on before I could seriously consider dating them."
Where did I ever get the crazy notion you'd like a submissive girl?
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