Should the girl ever ask out the guy?

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-28-2005
Should the girl ever ask out the guy?
36
Tue, 08-09-2005 - 3:57pm

Ok ladies, here's a question for ya. I just read some lame MSN.com relationship advice article about how it's a great idea to ask out the guy if he isn't making the first move. Personally, I think it's a bad idea 99% of the time. There are some special situations where the guy is perhaps too shy, introverted, and maybe even nervous around you (probably inexperienced) where you could consider making the first move by asking him out. But again, I stress, those are special, specific, and rare circumstances. Almost everytime I think it's a bad idea for the girl to ask out the guy. I'm not closed minded or old fashioned, as you will find out as you read below. I just don't think it usually works out well, and it makes the woman look a little needy I think, even if she's not.

Let me give you some background first, I am not some dating guru here, I get shut down from time to time like any other guy. I'm not a player either. (I'm 27, single, and really looking forward to marriage... to the right woman. I do have some relatively high expectations, but I think they are realistic. There's nothing wrong with having high standards, and I refuse to settle.) Basically, I'm a typical good guy with plenty to offer the right woman; so I'm no geek, but no serial dater/flirt either. Meaning I get my fair share of interested women, but not any woman I want either.

So maybe this doesn't apply to guys like me. Maybe that's why I don't like this idea. If I were more quiet/shy/intimidated by asking a girl out, maybe her asking me out would be very welcomed relief. But if a guy like me was asked out by a girl, chances are I'm probably not interested. The only time this would work for me is if I hadn't had the chance to ask her out yet myself. See, within my social circles I meet different girls from time to time, but mostly I already know them. (work, church, mutual friends etc.) If I was interested, I got their number and asked them out fairly soon after meeting them (a week or two). If I wasn't interested I would still be friendly and kind (not flirting) but I would not ask them out of course. (What's a guy to do, not be friendly to a woman just because he doesn't see a future with her?)

But then there's always that girl or two that have a little crush on me, and they read into something I did or said one time, as if I was interested, and they try to ask me out. If I wasn't interested enough when I first got to know you, why would that change? If something somehow did change do you think I'm that big of a wimp or not gentleman enough to not ask you out? How hard is it for me to just ask for your number? If you say no, no big deal. One date is just one date. But now if the girl asks me out, now I feel bad for saying no.

Here's why: For whatever reason, traditions, by habit, nature etc... It still is not common practice in our society (for most people), to have the girl ask out the guy the first time. Let's be honest, it just isn't very common... yet. Therefore if a girl goes out of her way to muster up the courage to ask me out, she probably really likes me. (Unless she's made a habit of asking guys out - definately not a good thing IMHO)

So it's twice the rejection than if the guy asked the girl out, because it's obvious to both the guy and the girl that she decided to take the initiative, rather than wait for him to ask her out like normal, which probably means she likes him a little extra. Therefore the risk and possible rejection is greater for her. However, it's less risk when I guy asks the girl out, because it's unsure of how much he likes her. Guys ask out girls all the time, some they like more than others. Maybe he likes her a lot, maybe he likes her a little. Either way if the girl says no, then he can act like he wasn't that heartbroken about it cause he didn't have his heart into it much. But again, if the girl goes out of the way to do it, then it's usually someone special in her mind. Plus girls are more sensitive and emotional (in general, don't hate me for saying that!), so they are risking more, therefore going to hurt more if the guy says no. Plus, I have 3 sisters who I love dearly, and I couldn't imagine making them sad like that, so I have a hard time saying no when I'm asked out by women.

So I wish I could tell those women, "Please don't ask me out! If I like you I will ask you, if I don't, sorry I'm just not into you. It doesn't make you a bad person, I just don't see something happening between you and me. So please lets be friends and leave it at that!"

Am I being too harsh here? Do you think me too narrow minded? Am I too old fashioned? Think what you want, but I don't think I feel this way for any of those reasons. I just don't think it's usually a good idea for the girl to ask out the guy the first few times. Make sure there's mutual interest, (ie; you've gone on about 3 dates) then you can ask him out. Now this doesn't mean you can't invite a guy to a party or something like that, just not on a date. Sorry, ladies please just leave the poor guy alone if he doesn't ask you first. He probably sees you as just a friend and nothing more. Hopefully you don't let him turn a friendship with no possible relstionship potential, into just FWB (unless that's what you are looking for). Because I think that someone usually ends up getting their feelings hurt, because someone thought it could develop into something more. This might sound harsh, but ladies, lets not be so desperate. Let's have some kind of standards.

So please ladies, if you have a hard time getting guys, don't start asking them out. They just aren't interested. That doesn't make you a bad person, it just means there a thing or two you could change about yourself to make yourself more appealing and attractive to that guy (or guys in general), that you may have not noticed before. So either move on and find another guy, or ask yourself a few questions (this goes for guys too). Do you have an abrasive personality? Do you appear to have little motivation or ambition? Are you overweight? (Sorry again it sounds harsh, but this is a popular one, it had to be said!) Or it could be something smaller, maybe you pick your nose, wear too much makeup/dress slutty (both big turn offs!), or have bad teeth. Sorry, but I know a girl right now that I would love to date if she got her teeth fixed and lost 20-30 lbs. Her teeth are really really bad. But she's a sweet heart, and has a wonderful personality, but we've been just friends for 2 years. I would never flirt with her, or give her the impression that I'm interested in more then friends, however if she made a change or two I probably would be interested.

Now I know I'm being labeled as shallow and a jerk right now, but I have to be attracted to my future g/f and wife, and right now this woman is just not attractive. I am sorry that again sounds harsh, but I'm just being honest. I can't tell you how many women I know that have a great personality, but have one or two things they need to work on before I could seriously consider dating them. Unfortunately it's usually something physical. BTW, looks aren't everything, and no it's not even the most important thing in a relationship. However, I do look at it as a prerequisite. Meaning, once I am attracted to a woman, it suddenly takes a back seat in importance to everything else, but until I am attracted to her, how can I want to kiss her let alone be intimate? I am sorry, but it's a fact of life. There are literally thousands of women out there that would find instant boyfriends (and men who would find girlfriends) if they'd just work on one or two things, usually their looks. I know men are the same way, either too lazy and fat, or else too shallow and mean. What can you do?

Which raises another question: How hard is it to stay at least somewhat in shape? All it would take for people (guys and girls) would be 30 minutes every other day, and then laying off the big fatty diet! Yes some people have low metabolism/some disease which prevents them from losing weight, but I bet that's a lot less frequent than people claim. Those people with physical ailments obviously this doesn't apply. But to the rest of our over-weight and out of shape country (we are one of the fattest countries in the world if not the fattest), is it really that hard to work out every other day for 30 minutes, and resist that chocolate cake? I am not blessed with a natural buff and fit physique, so I go to the gym 3 to 5 times a week, and I still have a ways to go. I'm not saying we all have to look like models, but how about getting in shape?

Ok, I've ranted long enough. Maybe I should have divided this into 2 different topics? I know I've probably just upset a lot of women, but I think it all had to be said. Hey, I'm willing to hear your comments. Plus I know that us guys have a lot to work on too. Heck most of what I said applies to guys too. I'm not saying that my opinion is 100% right, just that it seems to be mostly true. Let me know if I'm wrong or heck one or two people might even agree with me. Sorry if I've offended or made enemies, I didn't mean to.

-MFG

Avatar for northwestwanderer
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 08-11-2005 - 1:10pm

I'm scarcely "submissive" (the thought of that adjective being applied to me would send my friends into gales of laughter) but I don't ask men out, at least not anymore (I did when I was younger and not as wise to the ways of the world), because I know that IF a guy is interested, available and emotionally healthy, he WILL ask me out (although merely asking me out does NOT necessarily mean a guy is all 3 of those things).

If he's NOT asking me out, he's not interested, not available and/or not emotionally healthy.

Regardless of how the OP's message was delivered, it's a valid one.

Sheri

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-27-2004
Thu, 08-11-2005 - 1:32pm
I have to agree.
The original poster was being honest.
There is no such thing as a shy and intimidated man to afraid to approach a woman.
He may be shy but trust me, he sees someone he likes, he's gonna go after her. I know from experience. It may take him a while, but he'll eventually muster up enough courage and ask.
I think alot of women don't want to accept that he might not be all that interested in them. Alot of women are making excuses for men and saying, "Oh he's shy and I'm told I'm beautiful so therefore he must be intimidated". I used to think that way to but boy did I learn. Looks aren't everything and regardless if you think you are a goddess, if his interest level isn't there, then it's not there and he's not going to ask you out. He might flirt a little but flirting and asking out AND following through are two different things.
These were all things I learned as early as 12 years old from my mother. I remember sitting in her room and she'd run it down. "Don't seek these boys out. Let them come after you. If they like you enough, they will."
Ladies, if you think he's so shy and scared, all you have to do is give him some encouragement. Smile, flirt, talk, make eye contact with the individual. If you're doing that and he's still not asking, then he's not interested enough. He's not available.
I don't even like the asking him for a cup of coffee thing. Automatically, his first impression is, "Oh she wants me". I asked this guy to have lunch with me and he said yes, IMind you I didn't know he had a girlfriend) and he kept joking around with me opening his coat. I asked him why he was doing that and he says jokingly, "Oh I was flashing you my hot bod".
Ha.
Ladies, let them ask you. If he's not asking, you better look around and forget him because chances are, ya rang his bell when he was busy.
iVillage Member
Registered: 07-08-2005
Thu, 08-11-2005 - 1:46pm

I understand what you're saying. Personally, I don't want to ask guys out on dates, either. I would much prefer the traditional roles.

Again, MFG just rubbed me wrong with his tone. All the false "I'm sorry"s and forced humility made me want to take him down a peg. It's the "Ladies, I'm such a great catch and I *know* that each and every one of you would want to land a guy like me so I'm going to, humbly (ahem) suggest that you stop being desperate, needy, slutty, ugly, overweight nose pickers so that you might have the opportunity to one day warrant my attention" approach to make his point that I didn't react to well.

I was trying to point out to him that people have different motivations for their actions. I could have probably chosen a better way to get my point across. Maybe one with sarcasm but that seems to be my medium in which I work.

How's this: MFG, that's fine if that is your opinion, however, I hope that you realize that not everyone has the same perception on this subject that you do. Obviously, you would not be compatible with a girl that is forward and goes for what she wants and that's ok. I'm ok, you're ok, we're all ok, ok?

Like I said, he rubbed me wrong. I'm a bad person. To keep me from going to Heck, I'm off to the church of Holy Cripes to pray to Gosh for forgiveness. :-) Sorry, the sarcasm just couldn't stay gone for long.

Avatar for northwestwanderer
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 08-11-2005 - 1:54pm

Eh, he's a youngster, I make allowances for that ;-), so his post didn't really bother me.

Sheri

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-08-2005
Thu, 08-11-2005 - 1:55pm
Sometimes I just gotta get "the feisty" out, you know? LOL
iVillage Member
Registered: 07-28-2005
Thu, 08-11-2005 - 2:53pm

Dear Osama Bin, (what does osmama99 stand for anyway)

So you sound like what bothers you most about me is more my tone than what I'm actually saying? Well I don't like your tone either, but so far I've been focusing on what you are saying, not how you say it. We all come off a little abrasive I think, and you need to learn to take people with a grain of salt. I have many problems and issues I am working on everyday, and one of them is being more careful of how I say things. It's very hard for me to do, and I know uptight people such as yourself take me as a jerk. What I say does come off rough and even mean sometimes. I'm just a blunt and candid guy who speaks his mind and doesn't worry so much about being so damn politically correct and polite to everyone all the time. I'd rather be honest and upfront than overly nice and sugar coat everything. To me it seems overly nice people often can have something they are hiding behind their fake exterior, or maybe they have something they are trying to get out of you.

If you don't like my tone, I can only appologize, but from the sounds of it you think my appologies are fake, so what's the point? Do you think you come off so nice and rosey? I wonder, maybe you just don't like confident guys or something? Maybe you like shy introverted guys who are too scared to ask you out? If I were to judge you by your tone (which I don't like to do, but you did to me so this is only fair), I would guess that you are the type of girl who likes to dominate her men, and really hates any guy with any cockiness or confidence. Maybe you like being in control of the relationship, telling your man what to do. Maybe you want your men to be submissive? But I don't know you so I really don't know if any of that is true.

You said that my approach was, "Ladies, I'm such a great catch and I *know* that each and every one of you would want to land a guy like me so I'm going to, humbly (ahem) suggest that you stop being desperate, needy, slutty, ugly, overweight nose pickers so that you might have the opportunity to one day warrant my attention." When did I ever say that? Again, you are misinterpreting what I'm saying. Women don't need to change for me. There's just certain things I look for in a women, and yes if she doesn't have what I'm looking for (inside or out), I move on. If a women decides to make changes on her own to who she is (inside or out) and by doing so becomes more attractive to me (inside or out), then I would reconsider. She certainly doesn't have to make any changes, and I don't expect her to. I know you don't believe me, but I have in the past decided not to pursue certain women for who they were on the inside. Believe it or not, fake shallow women or players and gold diggers make me run. Women who are like that usually are good looking (sometimes very good looking), but I'm not out for some shallow bimbo. I have high standards for both myself and my future wife, but I know neither she nor I are ever going to be perfect. I don't think having high standards (inside and out) is a bad thing.

I know I am not God's gift to women, and I sure as heck aint here to try to pick up any women. This isn't an online dating service. It's a place to share opinions. If you are here to pick up men, you might want to try at least a men's site (askmen.com is decent) or even an online dating service. I'm not here for that though. I don't think I ever said I was either. Matter of fact I'm not a fan of online dating too much. Most women here probably live so far away anyway, and I hate long distance relationships. Plus it seems a little risky and difficult to meet online and then in person. Just a personal preference.

I'm here for the conversation and to learn more about women because clearly I've got a lot to learn about the opposite sex. Women are both complicated and intriguing to me. I want to both learn from all of you, and hopeful give some ideas and advice as well in return. If you don't like what I have to say, you are very welcomed to disagree. Like I said before maybe we'll just have to agree to disagree. I can handle it if somebody else out there disagrees with me.

-MFG

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-28-2005
Thu, 08-11-2005 - 2:59pm

Sheri,

Am I really that young? I know you said you're 46, so to you 27 seems young maybe. Does that make what I'm saying less valid because I have less life experience? I appreciate you taking me with a grain of salt though. I do need to work on the way I say things. You seem really kind anyway, so thank you.

-MFG

Avatar for northwestwanderer
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 08-11-2005 - 3:09pm

Yes, 27 seems really young ;-). In all seriousness, I know how much I changed and grew in my early-mid 30s, and I saw a lot of friends go through the same thing, so I don't think that most people in their 20s are "fully formed adults" yet...and that is NOT meant as an insult in any way, shape or form, it's just what I've observed over the years.

It's not that what you're saying is less valid, it's more that I know you'll learn in time that things are not so black and white, so that's why I make allowances.

Sheri

Avatar for northwestwanderer
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 08-11-2005 - 3:11pm

Woah, youngster or not, the heading to this post is REALLY out of line. I suggest you go back and edit it immediately.

Sheri

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-08-2005
Thu, 08-11-2005 - 3:48pm

I'm a terrorist now, huh? Cute. The name was registerd in '99, FYI.

>>I'm just a blunt and candid guy who speaks his mind and doesn't worry so much about being so damn politically correct and polite to everyone all the time.<<

But you did try and sugar coat with all the "I'm sorry"s. I think if you had just said what you had to say and left out all the pandering it would have gone over better.

I am not controlling nor uptight. I love man that has an opinion and states it but I would prefer a man who does it with respect. I don't want to control or be controlled. I like equality. I also stated: confidence, good; conceit, bad, didn't I?

Now before I begin to feel even more like my mother ( I don't like your tone of voice, young lady ), let me say this. You have valid points, you have a right to express your opinion, just be aware (and it seems as though you might recognize it) that the *way* you say something, sometimes means far more than what you had to say.

I think that if you have read any of my other posts you'll see that I don't attack people. I'm not a nasty person. I also don't shy away from stating my opinion.

Your later posts did lack most of things that bugged me from the first so maybe you just had to get the basic idea down and then refine your approach a bit. Like turning a rough draft into a final? I can appreciate that.

Maybe what you can take from this, if anything, is that you shouldn't apologize for your opinions over and over if you really are not sorry for them. Just say what you mean and mean what you say. I would have been much less bothered by that. And yes, I do know that we're not all here to make O's Mama (!) happy.

How did I become a maneating, online guy picker upper anyway?