Valentines Gift? What to do?????

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-20-2005
Valentines Gift? What to do?????
35
Sat, 02-11-2006 - 7:57am

Anyone else out there wondering what to do about Valentines Day and a gift for somebody they are dating?

I made my guy a gift basket of different snacks, candies, a coffee mug, a special made Tshirt with his name on it. The theme of if is crabbing. He loves to crab and tells me hes the master crabber. I have cookies with crabs on them, and even foil covered chocolate crabs!! We are both waiting for the spring/summer as he has promised me a day out on his boat crabbing together. I even put a water proof disposable camera in there for pics of our day together.

Heres the thing, I dont think hes much on the romance/valentines day thing. As I posted before hes a bit gun shy on the word "love" ! LOL

Now that I have the gift, Im feeling anxious about giving it him. I kept it simple and its something about us, because I thought simple would be best. We've been dating about 7 months now.

What if I give it to him, and he has nothing for me? I dont want to make him feel uncomfortable or bad. Im not giving to him with the need for something back in return, I did it because I love him and I wanted to do something fun and special for him.

What should I do? I know this seems silly but I havent bought another man a vday gift for over 21 years, its an odd feeling, but a good feeling. As you all know he can be a bit of a committment phobic (getting better lately, but he still keeps that small wall up in place).

I put alot of time and thought into this gift, and now Im wondering what to do with it? Help me out girls and guys. Tell me what you think. Any guys out there ever have a girl give them a vday gift and found themselves empty handed? How did it make you feel?

OH PIANO GUY I KNOW YOU A THOUGHT OR TWO TO HELP ME OUT HERE!! SO LETS HAVE IT!! LOL

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-20-2005
Thu, 02-16-2006 - 4:53pm

I dont think you quite understood when I said it was his day with his kids. Meaning that he has 50% shared custody of his children. He just came off 5 days of night work and hadnt seen his children for 5 days. When his shift is finished, wether hes off 2, 3, 4 or 7 days he is responsible to have his children on those days. It seems to me from conversations with him, that the ex wife is not interested in ever offering to make any "swaps" or changes in the schedule. I dont fault her and I never would fault him for the time he spends with his kids. Some fathers have their children one night a week and every other weekend. He fought tooth and nail 4 years ago for this arrangement, and I ADMIRE him and RESPECT him for the father he is.

As far as the other woman goes, I only have his word to go on, and the fact that he spends alot of time talking with me, or chatting online with me when hes home and when he's at work. Thats all I can go with here!! Dont think it didnt cross my mind, because beleive me it did. But then he called me while he was cooking dinner on Vday about 700. We talked for a half hour, while his dinner was cooking. So what do I do? I either beleive and trust him on this, as he has told me shes gone from his life, or I dont beleive him. I cant beat it out of him, I only have his word.

I enjoyed Erins post, and the Kermit/Miss Piggy analogy, I do think she made some good points about me, and I plan to reread it many times, and really think about it. But I also want to say that I honestly didnt want anything just because I had a gift for him. I really thought it would make a bad situation at the time, and we would both end up uncomfortable. After he left and I slept on it, I realized it was silly and I just should have gave it to him. Thats why I told him about the gift.

The last thing I want now is any gift from him. The day is over and done now, if he wanted to do something for me the chance is gone for Vday. The point here now is that Im not so sure that Im happy with the way I get treated by him. Excuse for saying this, but I think I deserve a bit better. Problem is I love this man, and as much as I say walk away, its not worth the trouble, I just cant do it.

Its not a matter of being alone either. Ive been alone before, and theres another guy in the wings asking me out, its a matter of loving and believing that one day the relationship can be what we both want it to be. Do I love him more than he loves me??? Id say a great big YES!! Maybe thats the biggest problem of all.

Thanks!

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-28-2005
Thu, 02-16-2006 - 5:17pm

Excuse for saying this, but I think I deserve a bit better

Let's help you out with this element.

If your priorities, definitions, and standards are ever shifting about what you want/need/expect - you're in a position to constantly rotate partners as the phases of life transition thru into another phase.

when you say "I deserve a bit better"....precisely what do you mean? That you "deserve" someone who's more considerate and attentive to events in general - this one included?

Or that you deserve someone of a higher caliber and character than he displays with his actions?

Which it is - is good for you to know.

I remember being 22 - being married to someone 42. At 20 and 40 - I thought he was the kitty's meow. He was everything I wanted and need in life he was a solid and positive reflection on everything I aspired to be at the time.

Two years later......he was the living embodiment of everything I thought I "deserved" to have - stability, reliability, dependability, quality of character......but he did or said nothing that I wanted to "interact with".

I wanted to see myself as hot, vivacious, desirable, exciting...and this guy and his lifestyle, priorities, and pursuits were none of that. So my shift in priorities and standards - negated an entire marriage and world for him and a child...that it negated a shift in my world was MY choice and desire...those other two just got upended and disturbed in me getting what I wanted and thought I "deserved".

and part of whati tought I deserved was someone more outgoing, more social, more glamorous, more active, more handsome, hunky and romantic...I had romance defined the way you see it in the Fredericks' catalog and ads! I twas simply a "lovers event" and had nothing to do with any other aspect of love other than "seduction/romance/allure/desire".

And I found him........unfortunately........he was "romantic" with everybody. I don't mean he strayed sexually - he didn't. He didn't plot or seduce. But he was simply "a lover of women" - he could find something attractive to compliment every woman on - from 5 to 195! (age or weight!)

He opened doors for all the ladies, he looked them all in the eye when they conversed, He offered a mint to every hostess in every restaurant, oh, the list is endless (today I'd say it is charming but I woldn't take it personally on the positive/negative side - back then I could do nothing but that whatsoever in light of what in my perception I "deserved" - aka - entitled) everything that I took away from our initial involvements as him "romancing me" as I saw it - a huge part of the draw........was really him being who he was - all the time, with all people. In the course of our relationship that caused me some upset...and in our marriage that totally ended THAT relationship. I had the old 'aisle/altar/hymn = I'll alter him" mentality - depiste this being in the 3rd marriage in less than 7 years!

So, are you wanting someone with more "romance" in thier soul....someone that isn't goin to prioritize you in terms of consideration, charm, and wit - but that does it everywhere? Are you prepared NOT too take that personally - realizing seduction and sex are reserved for you if that's his standard...but his charm, wit, and flirtatious manner are his alone to share with the world at large?

Or have you read a few too many harlequin romances? Where bookish, nerdy, pocket-protector Boyd......upon seeing magnificent, sexy, alluring, intelligent, and successful Misty.........follows after her in silent adoration while transforming himself into a more desirable and alluring man according to what she appears to prefer by watching her with other men - perfecting her tastes in his repetroire and reparte". So that upon actually meeting where she takes notice of him....he's "the perfect man" in her opinion because he tailor made his priorities, standards, interests, and lifestyle into what would appeal to "just her" - based on his adoration from afar, and his following along in her wake, being on the fringes of her glamorous and exciting world, and now is at her feet in rapt adoration and worship as a result of being let into the inner sanctuary of her arms and legs. Because THAT is not realistic.....nor reality based...nor is it going to happen!

Erin
quickblade14@hotmail.com

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-20-2005
Thu, 02-16-2006 - 5:59pm

Erin,

First off I want to start by thanking you for your constant support and help. It very heart warming when I sit and think of the time you put into responding to my posts.

When I say I deserve better, maybe what I should have said was I want better. I want something more, not something in a silly romance novel. More than anything, all I want is someone to be honest, someone to respect me, and someone who takes my feelings into consideration. This is may sound silly but its the little things that someone says or does that mean the most to me. For example, he calls I pickup the phone. He text messages me I respond. Yet there are days when I call or text and he doesnt respond. Its as if everything is based on his priorities, his needs, and his desires. And whos fault is that??? Id say its mine!! I let it get this way, by always being there for him, yet I dont feel like he's always there for me. Theres always excuses and to the non response.

Put aside all this deep thought and analogy for a minute Erin, and look at the bottom line. I may love him, but Im not as happy as I would like to be in the relationship I have with him. When we get close he pushes me away, and Im always there when he decides he doesnt want the space between us. I am responsible for this, because I allowed this to happen. The only way to fix it is to settle for this happy/unhappy moments, or to walk away and find the level of respect, consideration, and the honesty Im looking for with someone else. I use the word LEVEL because though he does show me these things they are not on the level that I feel comfortable with or want from someone. My level isnt that high to obtain, Im really quite a simple person, and dont ask for much. I guess facing the truth is hard sometimes, and Im starting to see the light. He told me once along time ago, that he didnt think he can ever give me what I want or deserve in life, and maybe he was right.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 02-16-2006 - 7:33pm

Generally speaking a woman has 3 basic and fundamental needs while the man is held accountable and obligated to deliver them.

1 - Prioritization
2 - Validation
3 - Security

The issue becomes - how much change must a man do to his life, responsibilities, priorities and obligations for these needs to be delivered within a woman's expectations. If a man doesn't do enough or change enough to meet these needs, then he is wrong, a commitment-phobe and the woman is left disappointed.

At a realistic level, goals, priorities, obligations and expectations need to be clearly defined and understood by both people involved. For your current relationship the simple fact may be that he is unable to change enough of these things to meet your needs. Neither one of you are right or wrong here - you're just different. It may be due to his child obligations. It may be due to his career and work requirements. It may be due to the fact that he is not emotionally ready for a committed relationship or some combination of these things.

I'd suggest to you that you have a good conversation regarding life priorities and obligations. You both need solid knowledge of these things before any action plan has any realistic hope of working.

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-21-2004
Thu, 02-16-2006 - 11:30pm

<< Generally speaking a woman has 3 basic and fundamental needs while the man is held accountable and obligated to deliver them.

1 - Prioritization
2 - Validation
3 - Security >>

I'll take the "generally speaking" into account, as there are no absolutes on what every woman needs ... there's what "this woman" or "that woman" needs. Personally, mine would be 1) prioritization, 2) respect, 3) appreciation (in no particular order).

On the subject of prioritization, do I need to be #1 PRIORITY. Of course not. It's not realistic. I'm not going to make a man my #1 priority; thus, I wouldn't expect that from him.

Regarding respect, consideration falls into that category. That's where I think Flick is at, in regard to returning phone calls, making time for her, etc. It's respectful to return a phone call, it shows consideration. As well as respecting my time and space, and I'll respect yours. Where things get "out of whack" is when we (ladies) allow the guy's time and space to take PRIORITY over our time and space; thus, we are become responsible for disrespecting ourselves. If it's mutual and reciprocal, great! If it's all (or mostly) on his time and terms, then ... who's disrespecting who? (the woman is disrespecting herself, right?)

Lastly, appreciation ... there's nothing that warms my heart more than simply being appreciated for what I offer and who I am ... not just for the little things I do ... but, for being accepted for who I am.

Validation ... I can give myself that (ie, self-esteem). Security ... I can DEFINITELY give myself that (and have). If a woman is needing security from a man, she's barking up the wrong tree. If she isn't willing or able to give herself the security she needs, to stand on her own two feet, what's going to happen if she suddenly finds herself without the guy. She's going to find herself in "survival mode" rather than being able to live it on her own. We have to be secure within ourselves and secure within what we're able to offer to ourselves ...with or without a man.

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-20-2005
Fri, 02-17-2006 - 6:29am

Starbuck,

Thanks for the response you sent to spiceman. I feel like you do, maybe some of those things a woman wants, but not necessarily in that order!! You also seem to be the one person here who truly understands what Im feeling and what Im looking for, more than the others. No offense to the other posters here, but your getting it:

"Regarding respect, consideration falls into that category. That's where I think Flick is at, in regard to returning phone calls, making time for her, etc. It's respectful to return a phone call, it shows consideration"

The above quote from you says it all!! Consideration and respect is a two way street in any relationship.

"Validation ... I can give myself that (ie, self-esteem). Security ... I can DEFINITELY give myself that (and have). If a woman is needing security from a man, she's barking up the wrong tree."

Dont need this one either, I give myself that. I have learned in the past 18 months how to stand on my own two feet and take care of myself, my children and my home. I have read books on home repair ! LOL Ive learned to do all the things my ex husband did, because it became a matter of survival, and Im a survivor!! I survived the death 13 years ago of my 5 year old son, and Im now surviving the end of my 21 year marriage. Both were never easy but I DID IT!! I stood up and faced it on my own, and I did it!!

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-28-2005
Fri, 02-17-2006 - 10:54am

Putting all the deep stuff aside - let's try it from this perspective:

What you want is someone who's there "forever". He only wants what is there "right now" in this moment in time....he's not as set on his destinations, paths, etc.

I honestly think he's looking at this as two of my buddies are....both men, both are extremely "confusing" to women....as well as they tend to think women are a bit "overthought" as a result of what has transpired.

Here's two good looking, fit, athletic, financially sound men....both with children. Ironically, both men have full custody. One has one daughter, the other has two. both men stated when the tragedy (one being divorce, one being death - both said both were tragedies) transpired that made them single parents........"nobody will raise my children but me". So from the outset here's the two MOST desirable two of men - established, secure, mature, fit, good looking, athletic, and financially sound 44 and 46 year old men...whoo will NOT BE SEEKING A PARTNER IN LIFE AT THIS TIME.

That's left them both free to date women of every variety - because nobody's getting around their children but them - they won't permit it. And they're not looking at the women from the aspect of "do we share values and interests and goals" - because they're not seeking harmony- but diversion, distraction, adult conversation and interaction.

The one who's a widower (still seems so weird to call one of my best friends a widower at 44) has been everything from perplexed to hilariously entertained by the women he encounters. The first 6 months - he was a pariah. Many women upon hearing about the unexpected death said to him "oh you're not ready to date"..and he said he finally gotthe picture -- they meant "you're not ready to find another mate, so I don't want to waste my time". A year after her death.........all the women he asks out assume he's "over it completely", they figure he's wanting female assistance in raising two adolescent daughters, and they love his "presentation" package and are clamboring down the door to "get in".....they date for a few months - they want around his kids - he won't have any part of it, he's intentionally dating people very 'different' from him becuase he appreciates diversity, isn't seeking partnership, and therefore has no clash to anticipate or overcome at any point as a result of the differences, and he ends it when they attempt to intertwine and involve in his "lifestyle" vs. in shared moments of adult entertainment.

The other is divorced........he encountered none of the "you're not ready to date = you're not ready to find a mate" reality - even during separation. Women assumed a man having joint but primary custody of a teenage daughter was looking for somoene to "take up the task of motherhood" - without realizing if he had had his ideal life - he'd have stayed home and raised her himself and let the woman have the career. They do the same as with the buddy above....and when they can't get access to his lifestyle.........and most importantly when they realize he's got a full lifestyle of interests and involvements and he's NOT in any way typical or conventional in terms of how he perceives "he should conduct himself" (more laid back European approach to life than the typical American style).........they're out to tame or fix or ashe puts it "neuter" him.....and he ends it abruptly.

So, I think that's where you're at.

What you want involves "the future"...that's why those little gestures and moments mean so much. They portend and indicate something that is to come to you. HAve you ever discussed or stated to him "it means so much when you said...or whne you did"...and why that is? I'm curious because when I was where you are at one point in my life (wanting what I didn't have, having it defined in just one way).........I had a person in my life that made many statements and did what i perceived was many actions that were done "specifically for me"...that really did change my world.

Two years later, still friends, I thanked them for specific events or shared moments or statements....and they couldn't recall them at all. It was just them being them...and it was me seeking so much change in life, and looking for tools and answers everywhere - that I found it in thier words and actions.

So I think that's where you are.....you're doing alot of projecting and assuming into what he does........as to what it means in regard to the future.

Whereas in his case, he's lot like my widower buddy.....he's involving with you only enjoying what exists, when he talks about his future or his goals and plans - he's talking in generalities, he's not necessarily including YOU in the mix because he doesn't want that in his life at this point.

Whereas in your case, you're hearing and interpreting everything based in "what it means for the future" - which is why you're in a constant state of flux about your perception of his "rubberband" behavior.

when you can interpret his actions and words per your previous experiences, current expectations and needs ot mean he "cares" or he wants a future - you're delighted beyond measure. You then up the expecttations of what'll come as a result of this "step forward" in the relationship.

On his side - there's been no step forward or back...he's enjoying what is, he's not trying to make it into anything regarding the future, when he talks about the future it's in generalities and we're all going tohave one - he's discussing HIS........

But you're spending alot more time and thought mentally and emotoionally "with him and in the relationship" than he is at all. There's not a way to do it......at least not without some 3rd party assistance in terms of counseling.

But I"m willing to bet if you had this information this is how it'd look. If asked how much time you spend thinking about, prioritizing, considering, reliving moments, or daydreaming about him and the future you engage in each day - it'd be at LEAST an hour. More likely 2-3.

If he were asked the same question about a "per day" about you specifically in any way it'd be MAYBE 15 minutes.

That's why you're SO Significantly invested in this going somewhre -and he's very able and enjoying living in the present.

So here's my suggestion...I did this - it works miracles, literally. Do document every moment you spend thinking about, considering, writing about on this board your relationship and him. Seriously, just jot down a particular allotment of minutes that you spend daily in the activity of pondering him, questioning his intentions and motivations, analyzing his actions or words, etc. tec. etc.

At 5pm.......add up the minutes (important to od this at 5pm or possibly earlier!).......because at the ocnclusion of your day as a parent.....you're now going to go out and do something that benefits only you, that is determined by you, that only you are involved in for that SAME PERIOD OF TIME EACH DAY...to invest in you.

Be it running around your neighborhood to get in shape, or be it studying the stars because that interests you, or whatever it is...but osmething that involves only you, benefits only you, is determined by you, is dictated by you, and you hold you accountable for.

Literally - in 3 months - you'd be amazed at the difference it'll make. You won't have shortchange him or the relationship whatsoever...but you'll have invested in you significantly and that is wha tyour life is needing so that you stop thinking a relationship is a "goal" or safety net.

Erin
quickblade14@hotmail.com

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-20-2005
Fri, 02-17-2006 - 1:43pm

Erin,

You have made your point quite well, on the other posts to me. I dont totally agree with u or disagree with you. Maybe I am looking for something that I cant have with him, that is why Ive made the decision today to move on with my life. I need to find what Im looking for somewhere else. So off I go, as soon as I get the chance to speak to him, into the sunset and make a fresh start again. It hurts so much I cant stand to think about nor talk about it anymore. You were right, I spend too much time thinking of him, and he spends only part of it thinking of me, at least Im starting to beleive that.

I guess I could stick around for just the "moment" and the "fun" but thats not being true to myself. Unless I can find a way to put the relationship in that light, but Im not sure at this point I can. I think Im way in over my head, as far as my heart goes. Its tough to love someone that doesnt love you back or not as much as you love them.

So wish me luck!! Somehow Ill get by, I always do! Im a survivor!!!

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-28-2005
Fri, 02-17-2006 - 2:18pm

What you might do - is ask yourself this question?

where do I see myself in 5 years - personally, professionally, locationally, financially, familially, spiritually, physically, and mentally and emotionally?

And answer it.

Those answers are the desires of your heart....it's now up to your head to be in charge of making those things happen by factual assessment, realistic expectation, intelligent involvement and responsible actions.

While no dating scenario in the beginning has "potential for a relationship of commjitment" - if you know that is what you're after, you can easily determine by learning to assess lifestyle, communicate honestly, not emotionally attach inappropriately so that you're objective and factually discerning - if this person wants a relationship at all in thier life. and how they define it. What it'll bring to them, and require of them....

That's much easier to do in regard to someone else if you've come to terms with yourself first. What are you doing to make your dreams your reality? Becuase nobody else is going to do that for you.

If after 6-9 months of dating someone - letting infatuation wear off whiel enjoying it....you find that you don't respect their character, or you two don't share a desire for a relationship by similar definition - you can break it off without all this angst.

You haven't spent hours, weeks, days, or months assuming and projecting into thier actions, decisions, and words what your future will be like "with them".

A relationship is going to require much more of you in terms of compromise, communication, and sacrifice than it will ever "bring" you - except in existential element.

A relationship of discord isnot a relationship. It's what 'survivors" have and I call it a "situation".

A relationship is an entity of harmony because of a deep base level of self-knowledge...that this other person has of themselves, and can share that with you honestly and vice versa. In those types of relationships - romantic or otherwise - what you want doesn't determine what the other person believes they're worth, or will have in the future. Key element to not "hearing what you want to hear' - when they're saying what THEY want to say.

Erin
quickblade14@hotmail.com

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-20-2005
Fri, 02-17-2006 - 6:19pm

Erin,

In all honesty I think I need to do 3 things here:

1. Slow down and relax about things with him.
2. Take your advice from early and track the amount of time I spend thinking about this and do something for me instead with that time.
3. Sit back and seriously figure out, as you also suggested, where I see myself in 5 years.

I do keep a journal, and maybe thats a good place to try and write down my thoughts about where I see myself in 5 years, and find some peace within myself. I think thats whats really missing here, inner peace.

A few times the last couple of days, I kept going back to a statement my mother made to me when my marriage was falling apart. She said I wasnt responsible for my husbands happiness, that each of us needs to be responsible for own happiness in this lifetime.

So in turn my guy is not responsible for my happiness, nor is it his job to make my life feel fulfilled, or unlonely. I think I need to step back a little in time, maybe a year ago, when I was finding my way in this new life, and work on me again. I need to remind myself of what I want in life, what my goals are, my needs etc. At that time I was more self reliant and my level of self esteem was much higher.

I dont want to say good bye to him right now. I do enjoy his company, our talks, his friendship. Even though I have feelings for him, and he says he has feelings for me, maybe its just something left alone and enjoyed for now. The truth is Erin, my feelings for him scare me so very much, that I think Im looking for excuses to walk away from him, for fear of being deserted and hurt again. I dont think Im ready for a serious relationship myself, because I have too many issues of my own to work through from the past. That doesnt mean him and I cant continue to "date" and have fun!! I just need to seperate it from thinking its anything more right now.

When I look at him and think of him, I see the best friend I have made in so many years. Hes not perfect, and neither am I (LOL), but when things are tough in life, I know I can always call him and he'll listen and offer me advice. Be it problems with my divorce, the kids, how to fix a broken door, or how to refinish my woodwork. Hes always been there to lend a hand and guide me with care and tenderness. Maybe Im confusing love with reliance upon him.

So instead of walking away, Im gonna go work on me for awhile. Im actually thinking that when I have off next weekend, I may pack a bag and get a room down the beach for a night. Just to get away from the outside forces, walk the beach, take in nature, and do some serious thinking about my goals in life. Just me and my journal. I think it may do me some good!! A break from all this, my children (who I love more than life), housework etc.

Ill be sure to let you know how it turns out!! Thanks for everything. Oh and one last thing. In one of your posts you stated about him not caring for my values if hes sleeping here, having sex here and eating breakfast here with me and my kids. Just so you know, thats not ever happened. My children met him once or twice in passing when we were coming in or going out on a date. Im very very insistent that my children will not be exposed to a life like that. They know of him, they know I date him, but thats it, nothing more. They are curious lately and ask alot of questions about themselves spending time with him, but I dont think Im ready for that, hes ready for that, but most important they arent ready for that.

Take care!!