Do nice guys finish last? [article]

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-18-2003
Do nice guys finish last? [article]
6
Fri, 03-18-2005 - 11:20am

Do Nice Guys Finish Last? By Ambrose Diaz


Nice guys finish last. We've all heard the phrase a thousand times. I've even offered it as an explanation for some unsuccessful relationships. I wonder though, is it just an excuse for other shortcomings?


Are we just trying to make ourselves feel better when, in fact, the problem may lie with us and not with the women who prefer guys who apparently, are not nice?

Do men honestly think that being nice is a drawback when it comes to women? I think that we need to take a good look at ourselves if we've ever uttered this phrase as an excuse.


Nice Guy Syndrome has become a pervasive way of thinking for a certain type of man. I stumbled on this quote posted on the Counseling Center For Human Development Web site at The University of South Florida:


"The nice guy is the person who you trust and feel comfortable with, but don't see as 'fun' or 'challenging' or really all that 'interesting', other than as a friend, of course."


I think that quote is the classic Nice Guy Syndrome mind-set. It sounds pretty reasonable at first blush, but if we look deeper at how the "Nice Guys" behave, we'll see some similarities in their thinking and actions.


Some of the symptoms of Nice Guy Syndrome:


Avoiding Conflicts
A so-called Nice Guy will go out of his way to avoid an argument even if he strongly believes he's right. That kind of passivity doesn't mean that you're nice. It means that you're a pushover. It's not the challenge that women really want, it's someone who has his own set of opinions and is willing to back them up.


Having a spine is a good thing… and conflicts are how we learn about each other. Deferring to the woman all the time leads to a stagnation in the relationship and can make a woman feel quite alone because when she looks to you for an opinion, all she'll get back is her own.


Placing Women On Pedestals
This is a really big problem with Nice Guys and it's a sure-fire path to failure.


When you put a woman on a pedestal, you thrust upon her the idea that she is perfect, beyond-reproach, angelic, and unable to make mistakes. Who in the world can live up to that kind of billing?


When a woman who has been placed on a pedestal inevitably falters or takes a misstep, she comes crashing down hard. The man who placed her there can't believe that the woman he placed all his faith in could suddenly become so… well… human.


Holding anyone up to unrealistic expectations is unhealthy for both parties. Nice Guys have to realize that they are involved with women who have faults. Stop foisting what you wish were their traits on them – and take them for the wonderfully, flawed individuals that they are.


Passive Neediness
Oooh… this is one of the most irritating things in the world to witness. It also falls under the unrealistic expectations category. You want something from your mate (fair enough), but you don't ask for it (not fair at all), then you feel hurt when you don't get it (incredibly unfair).


Basically, if you want something, you have to ask for it. Then, and only then, if you don't get it you can make an issue of it by verbalizing your feelings. Expecting a woman to read your mind is rather unfair, don't you think?


Nice Guys, who you may have figured out by now, aren't always nice, have a tendency to be passive aggressive in these situations. The trouble is, Nice Guys think that asking for something makes them selfish, but they have to wake up to the fact that we all want and need things, it's what makes us human. Ask, and maybe, ye shall receive.


Living For Someone Else
Another classic trait of Nice Guy Syndrome entails the idea of self-sacrifice. That's not always a bad thing, but if a relationship only has one person making sacrifices, we run into trouble. The end result of this is that the Nice Guy feels used and unappreciated.


Nice Guys often lose themselves in their partner and do everything to try and make them happy. But, in the process, they lose their individuality, the very individuality that probably made them attractive to their mate in the first place.


Nice Guys are so very eager to please that they end up denying themselves happiness along the way. Does that sound like a healthy way to live?


No More Mr. Nice Guy
As you can see, Nice Guy Syndrome is a pretty damaging condition. So the next time you utter the phrase, "nice guys finish last", think about what you're saying and take a moment to see if you really are as "nice" as you believe.

 

 

 

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-20-2005
Fri, 03-18-2005 - 11:55am

Thanks for an interesting article.

However, that's not what comes to mind when I think "nice guy". I think the author described doormat. To me, "nice guy" is a happy balance between incorrigible rebel and doormat.

Maybe I'm defending them just because I find myself drawn to them. I think they are more interesting. The bad-boy type is often too predictable. But when I meet a guy who seems genuine and is a little reserved - not to the point of petrification, but maybe just a bit - anyway, what I think of as a nice guy and I have this urge to find out what happens when you ruffle them up a little bit. Sometimes I discover a doormat who was disguised as a nice guy, but sometimes ... it's worth the effort.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-18-2005
Fri, 03-18-2005 - 11:56am

I think it’s a balance.

 
 
iVillage Member
Registered: 07-21-2004
Fri, 03-18-2005 - 12:54pm

Some guys I've known had complained about "finishing last." They aren't pushovers or anything, but they're ARROGANT.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 09-18-2004
Fri, 03-18-2005 - 1:29pm

YOU can also change this to NICE GIRLS FINISH LAST.... AND SEE YOURSELF.. it works that way as well..

just wherever it says guy in the article change it to Girl... works the same way.

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-07-2005
Fri, 03-18-2005 - 2:05pm

Good article jh! I believe there are "Nice Girls" who could fall in to that category also! But I do feel there are many shades of "nice".

CGUN,

Your list of nice guy characteristics pretty much sums up the guy I am seeing now as you listed:

Polite to others (i.e., waitstaff, store clerks, my family, his own family)
Friendly
Loves his family
Is good to children and animals
Somewhat soft-spoken (doesn't go around being loud, obnoxious, and sarcastic all the time)
Is a gentleman (holds doors, helps his lady in any way he can, pays for her once in a while)
Knows how to assert himself without coming across as a jerk
Isn't stuck on himself

But he is also more proper than most of the guys I've dated and I find myself doing things and saying things to rile him up a little. I love to see his reaction - which I think is not so sure at first, yet I can see that he likes it that I'm not boring and predictable - which sometimes can be ok also. It's just the mischievous side to me!

I know there are nice guys out there that are pushovers and their niceness is really not "nice" and I was concerned abut that with this guy in the beginning, but he has opinions and does stand up for himself, and I like that. He is a little more predictable than what I am used to, but it is actually growing on me...

Sunshine

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-10-2004
Fri, 03-18-2005 - 3:17pm

>>A so-called Nice Guy will go out of his way to avoid an argument even if he strongly believes he's right.<<

Apparently I need a new nickname. :)

Seriously, I think that what the author is talking about is someone who THINKS he's a Nice Guy, but who is really just a spineless doormat. Then he can complain about how the jerks and creeps get all the babes.

(Well, actually, it still frustrates anyone other than the jerks and creeps, because there ARE a lot of jerks and creeps with women.)

But the guy described in the article isn't really a Nice Guy. You can be "nice" and still be willing to contradict or disagree with a woman- I lived with one for 5 years and we disagreed all the time.

A True Nice Guy (TNG) will be able to find a way to disagree with her and find a compromise or a way of working out whatever they are disagreeing on. And she will continue to know, the entire time, that he loves her and cares for her- even if they vehemently disagree on whatever it is they're talking about.

I happen to believe that TNGs eventually wind up finishing first, with a lovely TNGirl by their side, happy and content in their relationship and their world.