Need Some Advice
Find a Conversation
| Fri, 02-02-2007 - 2:16am |
I had been talking to this guy from an online dating site and we decided to meet last weekend. Well, the date seemed to go well. We met for drinks and talked for hours and he wanted to do something after we left the restaurant, but it was late and not much was open. He said that he definitely wanted to go out with me again. When we were leaving the restaurant he was hugging me and holding my hand and told me that I was very pretty. He was acting interested. Well, it has been nearly 6 days now and he hasn't called. I was thinking that maybe I should just call him and tell him that I head a nice time last week, but don't know if I should. I am a little confused right now because when we met he was acting interested and I expected to hear from him by now. Has this happened to anyone else? What should I do? I really thought that this guy had some potential and I am very disappointed right now.
Thanks

Pages
Yes I agree that it is pointless to spend time worrying about *why* a guy isn't calling. It is only useful to take into account other factors than "not than into you" when the guy resurfaces and wants to be excused.
But, I agree with Sheri. What is really important is whether the guy is the right guy for you at this moment. Regardless of a guy's reasons for not being available to you, the fact is that he isn't available.
Elsa
Hjntiy,
Agree with every word of each and every one of your posts. Like your direct, to the point, articulate, logical and unique writing style. I only wish I read a few of your posts some years back when I myself was in a text-book 'hjntiy' situation and failed to see it or accept it.
I can see that you are really into that book. I myself am not as I feel it just gives men an excuse to be inconsiderate jerks...
Like I said I am moving on, and I do agree that there are some men that behave like you say, but not all men behave this way, and I don't think it is simple as you say. You are somehow implying that as if the woman is somehow at fault. "He's just not that into you". If he were into you he would somehow all of the sudden be considerate. Sorry, but in my book that is just an excuse for men to act like jerks to woman.
__________________________
I am really into the book, for a couple of reasons. First, I used to be that guy. I've done nearly all of those things in the book- cheated, not called, blown off dates, all that stuff... when I wasn't into a woman.
But whenever I *AM* into a woman, I don't act like that at all.
And you're very wrong; being into the book does NOT mean it's okay or excusable for men to be inconsiderate jerks. I'm not excusing it; I'm *explaining* it. There's a very big difference.
What I think women are at fault for is not even trying to understand how men are wired. We're telling you (well, I'm telling you) that often we really ARE that simple. We're either into you, or we're not, and if we act like we aren't, then it IS your fault if you continue to suffer along and waste your time with guys who treat you like crap.
Why do women keep putting energy, thought, effort, worry, etc into guys who act like this? And more importantly, if all the women stopped doing that, don't you think the jerk guys would have to find a better/different way to behave really quickly? I do.
Just so we're clear on this. It is not a woman's fault if a guy does these things- talk about making a second date and then not following through, or acting all into her on the first date or two and then ghosting out.
But it IS a woman's fault if she sits and obsesses over it, or schemes to get his attention again, or talks on with her friends for hours trying to psychoanalyze the guy and "figure him out" and what it is that he's trying to say. The woman is making an intentional decision to keep putting up with a guy who isn't acting well.
WHY he's not acting well (whether inconsiderate or HJNTIY) doesn't MATTER. Either way, if she keeps putting up with it and suffering over it, it IS her fault. She should just move on instead.
Guys who have good manners and are considerate of others will not make appointments and not keep them even if they are not really attracted to the person with whom they make an appointment. Guys who are responsible and not narcissists do not lead women on.
_____________
No, you're wrong. Perfectly decent, well-mannered guys do this all the time, because they are confused and emasculated. They think that to flat-out tell a woman "I don't like you and don't want to go out with you" would be horribly rude, so instead they find themselves in situations they don't want to be in, and they act it out.
But even if you're right, it doesn't make any difference; if a guy does it because he's rude, or if a guy does it because he's just not into her, either way a woman shouldn't bother with that guy anymore.
___________
You are explaining the behavior of RUDE men as though it is a normal behavior for ALL men, and in doing so you are misrepresenting men as a group.
_____________
Well, since I'm a man, I figure I know a thing or two about how men think. You're welcome to disagree, and everyone else can make their own call. :)
____________________
I agree that the motivation behind not calling or making any effort to stay in touch is that the guy is "just not that into" the woman.
But what we're really talking about here is why a man would flirt and encourage a woman to feel that he is attracted--sometimes even make an appointment to see her again--when he has no intention of seeing her again because he is not, in fact, attracted.
_________________
You're really wrong. Lots of guys find themselves making dates or flirting just because they think it's expected, and then they later are saying to themselves "man, I shouldn't have done that, I'm supposed to see this chick and I'd rather hang with my buddies and play Halo and drink some beer. Ah well, screw her, the game is on."
You are putting your own beliefs onto these guys, and I'm telling you that many of us- maybe even most- are simply not wired that way. It's not that we're rude; we're perfectly capable of being "polite". It's just that when we're not that into a woman, we don't bother.
And even more shocking is that tons of women PUT UP with that kind of behavior anyway, in the hope/belief that they can change a guy. It's amazing to me that any woman puts up with it for even a second, but they do.
In any case, the motivations WHY a guy puts forth these mixed messages- whether simply HJNTIY, as I believe, or rude/egotistic/narcissistic as you believe- doesn't MATTER.
What matters is that there's too many women who bend themselves into pretzels wondering about it when what they should be doing is ignoring those guys and moving on.
Not only did this guy flirt with and was coming onto me initially, but then he did it again on the phone and made a tentative date with me for the next day and then didn't follow through. He could have easily not made a plan with me or left it open ended. There is no excuse for this behavior to me.
_______________
I'll repeat: It's not an excuse, it's just an explanation. Why did he do this? Because he just wasn't that into you. You believe that because he made a tentative date he WAS into you, and then later changed his mind, or is some kind of games player. I believe you're wrong; he just decided "nah, not that into her."
It's not an excuse for his behavior; it's just an explanation.
_____________
Also, I think that there are guys out there that are only into themselves (women too), who don't want relationships at all.
_____________
I don't want to be mean/rude here, but just because the guy didn't want to see YOU again doesn't mean he wasn't into a relationship.
It just means he wasn't into a relationship WITH YOU. There's tons of guys who say "I'm just looking for fun" and who never mention an LTR, but once they meet that super-right, super-connection girl, bang, it's all over.
They're that into her.
And don't go getting angry at me, because you know perfectly well that there's plenty of women that are the same way- just stringing guys along, not all that into them, and the guys are saying "she doesn't want a relationship" when she certainly DOES want one- just not with him.
Agree with every word of each and every one of your posts. Like your direct, to the point, articulate, logical and unique writing style. I only wish I read a few of your posts some years back when I myself was in a text-book 'hjntiy' situation and failed to see it or accept it.
_______________
Don't worry. Sooner or later I'll say something to really tick you off and you'll think I'm a complete idiot. ;)
I will say, once again, that a guy who lies to a woman (leads her to believe he's interested if he is not) is a player, liar, user or a combination of all. There is no excuse for it, plain and simple..NONE at all. Doesn't matter if he's not that "into you"..that is still a very selfish and juvenile reason for a man to blow a woman off. If the guy can't be ethical about his dating practices, then he's not likely a very good candidate for any woman in the future. Don't make plans for 2nd dates or call a woman every night for weeks if he has no plans to see her again. Makes no sense no matter how you look at it.
I disagree about a man wanting a relationship or not. I believe a perfect 10 of a woman could not entice a guy if he is not at a place where he believes he wants and needs a relationship. I think many men only want a woman "part" of the time. Maybe when they are missing sex or someone to go dancing with, but most of the time, they are happy on their own. Know what? Those are the men who should not put profiles online "claiming" they want a long-term relationship. They need a hooker for a night or two or someone to escort them to a dance but nothing more.
I agree that women need to walk away from a guy who plays games, but it is in our nature to not want to believe the worst about someone, so we give them a pass but if we continue giving passes for bad behavior, then that is on the woman who puts up with it. But it goes back to my original thought here..many guys play games because they think they can and often do get away with it. Many are immature and selfish and will soon show those colors even to a woman "they are into" eventually. Only a matter of time.
<
So--is a guy who gives you this level of attention right for you, regardless of the reason why? That's the question you should be asking yourself, IMO.>>
EXACTLY! When I started dating again after so long, I did buy a lot of relationship books to help me understand how dating had changed in twenty years. I used some of the books to help me figure out what men might be thinking or expecting but others to figure out what I wanted. I had a real problem with some of the "formula" books, particularly those with titles like "Make Any Man Fall In Love With You." I didn't want to manipulate a man into having feelings for me. I wanted the real thing!
I get the impression, in talking to single female friends and from looking at the popular dating books, that a lot of women are less concerned with finding the right person than the are with finding just a warm body who happens to be male. One of the most chilling things a never-married woman in her early forties said to me was that, even though I had a horrible, abusive marriage, at least "someone loved me enough to marry me." Her attitude was that it was better to be in an unhappy, unfulfilling marriage than to be alone. I was appalled. My former husband was an emotionally constipated individual who could not show love to the cat much less to another person and he married me not because he wanted to be with me but because it was the right time in his life to get married. I would much rather be alone than ever put up with that sort of nonsense again. There is nothing lonelier than being married to the wrong person!
Maybe because I'd been in such an unsatisfying marriage, I knew that if I ever got involved again, it would be with someone I really wanted in every way. I wasn't going to settle for just "anyone" and I didn't. My fiance is the man I always dreamed about as a partner and neither of us had to play games or try to manipulate the other into falling in love. Interestingly enough, the last woman he went out with before we started dating was apparently trying to play games with him. From what I gleaned from a mutual friend and from things that my SO said, this woman had an unrealistic expectation that she already had a relationship with him built on a week's worth of emails and a couple of phone calls---even before they'd had their one and only date. He's an amazing man but I think she was likely interested in him because he was there, not because he was special---she didn't even know him. It gives my SO pause to think that this woman thought of him not as a person but as prey---and in looking back at previous relationships, I think he'd met up with similar types in the past. And that's very hurtful and emotionally unfulfilling for a man to realize that a woman is with him simply because he's a man, not because he's THE man.
Relationship books can be amusing and sometimes give us insight into others' behavior but we need to know who we are and what we want before we even attempt to find a lifelong partner.
Moogie
There's a very interesting book entitled "How to Avoid Marrying a Jerk" that discusses people's bad behavior in dating relationships. One of the things it points out is just what you said, Mitsy:
<>
One of the first things the author said in the book was that good-hearted PEOPLE (of both genders) tend to put up with bad behavior because they want to give the other person a second chance or they want to believe the best in others rather than the worst. From my experiences in putting up with bad behavior instead of walking, I concur---and add that for me, it was diminished self-esteem that made me tolerate inexcusable behavior from a rude, obnoxious man.
When I got played in my first post-divorce relationship, it was brutal. I was on emotional highs and lows all the time, depending on whether or not he'd call. He was clearly wrong---he would call me every night for weeks on end and talk for several hours about all sorts of things. And when he finally dumped me he texted me that he had "never been interested in a romantic relationship with me". OUCH! That was simply rude. I don't know why he played me, if it was because he thought he might want a relationship with me, if he wanted to be friends, or if his ego was so gratified by meeting a lot of women online (the kid in the candy store thing.) It was very painful for me and yet, it was a growing experience that made me understand what I would and would not tolerate in a man.
I met a couple of similarly rude men when I started OLD. One guy---his face visibly fell when we met because he realized I wasn't supermodel skinny (I was honest in my profile that I was around a size 12.) He said he'd get back in touch but he never did. His loss. I wasn't going to blame every man for his rudeness or for my ex-husband's nastiness or for the juvenile antics of the text message dumper dude. My fiance is a good man and doesn't play games. I also realize that there aren't a lot of men out there who are like him---but as he points out, there aren't a lot of women out there who are like me.
I agree with you that there are some men who are simply dating to see how much sex they can get or to boost their own egos. (The guy who didn't like me at a size 12 wasn't exactly built like a Calvin Klein underwear model himself!) It's all about objectification---men or women wanting objects---partners to wear on their arms like trophies. If people would be honest with themselves first and know what they wanted, maybe they could be honest and not play games with other people's emotions.
Why aren't they honest? I don't know. But then again, women aren't always honest either. As I said in my other posts, there are plenty of women who are less into a particular man than they are into the IDEA of being with a man, any man. A lot of men play games because they can get away with it. So do a lot of women. I guess the answer is to be the kind of person who doesn't play games, who won't tolerate games and eventually you will find someone who is similarly minded. I hope I am not sounding smug or giving the impression that it's easy to find the right person. I was damned lucky to find my SO. But finding the right person is worth all the angst from the past.
Just my two cents (okay, more like $1.50 today...)
Moogie
Pages