Need Some Advice

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-19-2005
Need Some Advice
85
Fri, 02-02-2007 - 2:16am

I had been talking to this guy from an online dating site and we decided to meet last weekend. Well, the date seemed to go well. We met for drinks and talked for hours and he wanted to do something after we left the restaurant, but it was late and not much was open. He said that he definitely wanted to go out with me again. When we were leaving the restaurant he was hugging me and holding my hand and told me that I was very pretty. He was acting interested. Well, it has been nearly 6 days now and he hasn't called. I was thinking that maybe I should just call him and tell him that I head a nice time last week, but don't know if I should. I am a little confused right now because when we met he was acting interested and I expected to hear from him by now. Has this happened to anyone else? What should I do? I really thought that this guy had some potential and I am very disappointed right now.

Thanks

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iVillage Member
Registered: 09-27-2004
Mon, 02-12-2007 - 3:38pm
Great post. I am one of those "too nice" people myself who put up with probably too much BS from guys in the past but I know that now I'm a "reformed doormat" I finally wisened up and left the men who weren't the right ones for me and sought out someone with a similar sort of personality to me. I am VERY lucky myself to have met my great boyfriend who had (and still has a little) tendency to be a doormat in the past too because he always wanted to believe that more people out there were as caring, empathetic and good natured as he is and he would give them way too many chances. It's really sad but true that a lot of people out there are very selfish, not talking about the good selfish in which you take care of yourself and stand up for yourself, but the bad selfish in not treating others with sympathy, caring and how you would want to be treated. The golden rule does not exist in most cases anymore.
iVillage Member
Registered: 07-20-2001
Mon, 02-12-2007 - 4:17pm

It helps me a great deal to read of others' struggles in the dating world and to know that it isn't just me feeling "played" a lot of the time. I think the thing that has upset me the most with this last guy (cop guy from Iowa) was that he continued calling me a LOT until the weekend before last (haven't talked to him since). He had this very narrow set of qualities that he wanted in a woman (which I fit) and he also seemed to have a lot of attraction and interest on our one and only date. Now, if he had quit calling me after date #1, I might not be as irritated about this whole deal, but he called almost daily for nearly 2 months afterwards..only to ghost like so many others. I honestly do not think he was ready for another serious relationship. He had broken up with his ex only a couple months prior to our meeting (which did concern me a lot but he continued to say he was "over" her). I would have thought a lot more of him if he had simply said that "maybe I'm not ready for something long-term yet" and then let me decide if we continued the friendship or not. For a guy who "claimed" to be such a Christian, I now wonder about someone who touts that as a quality he wants in a woman if he can't practice common courtesy by returning a phone call.

I have heard of the book about marrying a jerk. I can't recall if I've read any of it or not. What I seem to encounter over and over again are men who simply like being single and carefree. They don't want to have to call someone regularly or make weekly dates. In short, many are LAZY. That is what I hear about so often and have seen first-hand myself. They waffle about wanting a woman and oftentimes they play the same schtick over and over with other women--it's not just one woman they do this with. I think someone with Brittney Spears body with a great personality and brains could not make a guy act appropriately (as far as dating goes) unless he was ready for a relationship. All too often the woman blames herself for the guy acting like a jerk (I've done it again and again myself.."what could I have done different?" B.S.). If the guy is not ready for a relationship, it doesn't matte who the woman is. It is going to fail regardless. I've come to believe that more and more.

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-30-2006
Mon, 02-12-2007 - 4:54pm
Elsa, thanks for your great post on this discussion regarding the HJNTIY topic that hijacked this thread. Basically people that have no respect for another persons feelings and time are self-centered, shallow, and have no idea the meaning of normal considerate behavior. There are no excuses for standing people up, for presenting a yourself as someone you are not, and their behavior is "manifestations of narcissistic, egocentric behavior that both men and women are capable of" to quote you.
iVillage Member
Registered: 12-19-2005
Mon, 02-12-2007 - 5:31pm

Mitsy,
I couldn't agree with you more. If a guy isn't ready for a relationship, than it doesn't matter who the woman is. I find guys that are inconsiderate and play games don't do it with just one woman, but do the same thing with every woman they date. I often end up blaming myself thinking that it is my fault, when the truth is that it is not. I hate this whole concept "He's Just Not That Into You". It just seems to oversimplify things and when you are dealing with people and relationships things just aren't that simple even though the poster HJNTIY wants to make it seem like they are. I get comfort in knowing that at least I am not alone in what I am going through with men right now. The last guy that I went on a date with was 38 and when he started the game playing with me I really was disappointed because at 38 I expected more mature behavior.

Karalyn

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-28-2006
Wed, 02-21-2007 - 2:20am

I have to admit to some amusement seeing a board made up almost entirely of women decide that when one guy comes along and bluntly says what he thinks about how guys think/operate, he's full of simplistic crap.

You gals are falling into a groupthink feedback loop, where men think and operate like you. To you, if a woman did the things that the JNTIY guys do, she would be all of those bad nasty things that you mention; therefore, if a guy does it, he must be all those bad nasty things too.

Well, I'm telling you, that's just not the case. You can either choose to believe each other, a bunch of ladies, about what guys think, or you can listen to what a GUY is telling you and give it some consideration.

Let's go way, way back, to the OP (original post). The essence of Karalyn's question was this (quoted from her post):

"Well, it has been nearly 6 days now and he hasn't called. I was thinking that maybe I should just call him and tell him that I head a nice time last week, but don't know if I should. I am a little confused right now because when we met he was acting interested and I expected to hear from him by now. Has this happened to anyone else? What should I do?"

This EXACT situation is in the book. Exactly. Page 4. Go find your copy of the book (surely you have one- you wouldn't be spouting opinions about a book you don't have and haven't read, would you?) and re-read his story, then come back here.

The author, Greg Behrendt, had a very simple response to the gal that was asking him the same thing as Karalyn- had a date, he seemed interested, acted interested, then didn't call for any more dates.

Greg's response? "Sounds like he's just not that into you."

It's not that the guy is some horrible, evil, games-playing guy. The simplistic thinking would actually be to believe this, because it removes any/all "fault" or problem from the woman and places it on the guy. Hey, it's not that he's rejecting her, it's that he's a scumbag who likes toying with a woman's emotions, right?

Wrong. He just isn't that into her.

Oh, he might wind up going out with her again; he might even wind up sleeping with her; but if he isn't treating her right, it's because he isn't that into her. Period. End of story.

When a guy really IS into a woman, he treats her right. If he doesn't know how, he tries, and he tries to learn better. That's how it works.

Here's a quote from the book: "And sadly (and most embarrassingly), we would rather lose an arm out a city bus window than tell you simply 'you're not the one.' We are quite sure you will kill us or yourself or both- or even worse, cry and yell at us. We are pathetic. But the fact remains, even though we may not be saying it we are ABSOLUTELY showing you all the time."

Ouch. The book is, quite honestly, harsh on guys. But it's got tons of honesty about GUYS in the book. In fact, as long as I'm posting too long a note, here's another quote from it:

"Imagine right now that I'm leaping up and down and shaking my fist at the sky. I'm on my knees pleading with you. I'm saying this in a loud voice: 'Please, if you can trust one thing I say in this book, let it be this: WHEN IT COMES TO MEN, DEAL WITH US AS WE ARE, NOT HOW YOU'D LIKE US TO BE.'"

HJNTIY's message is very simple- if a guy isn't treating you right, he's not that into you, and you need to quit worrying about it, thinking about it, giving it any time or energy or thought. Maybe he IS a big giant creep, narcissistic or whatever.

The point is that from the WOMAN's point of view, it doesn't matter. Why are you worried about it? It's far more logical to just say "he's not that into me" and MOVE ON.

Don't wonder "should I call him and tell him that I'm going out on Saturday night and see if he asks where or with who" or "I have been emailing this guy for five weeks and he hasn't asked me out yet, should I ask him" or "I went out with this guy a couple of times and he seemed really into me but now he hasn't called in a week and a half, what should I do?"

That's all wasted time. You are smart, bright, funny, attractive women with great brains and cute smiles. (Nearly every woman I know, even the not-really-super-model ones, are WAY cuter and more attractive when they smile.) Why would you waste time or energy on these guys who act like this?

And frankly, y'all can grouse about "hijacking the thread" or being overly simplistic, but here's the last thing that Behrendt wrote in HJNTIY:

"...but at the core the "He's just not that into you" concept can truly have a magical transcendent effect. It's not bad news if it helps free yourself from a relationship that is beneath you. And we both know that only you can free yourself. I don't pretend to know how to fix you. I do know how to help you recognize the problem. I do know that you are worthy of having great relationships and an even better life. I do think you are beautiful and somewhere deep down inside you know it too, otherwise you wouldn't be here. I believe life is a speedy and awesome gift, so don't waste the pretty. If you are reading this, YOU want something better. If you are reading this, I want something better for you too."

Ladies, we all want something better. It's ridiculous to argue whether saying "HJNTIY" is somehow "excusing" a guy's bad behavior or that guys who act in these ways are sleazy, egotistical loser player wankers.

From YOUR perspective, the guy isn't available and doesn't care enough to MAKE himself available to you. HJNTIY. Forget about him and move on until you find a guy who IS that into you.

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-27-2004
Wed, 02-21-2007 - 4:35pm
I agree that thinking along those lines are definately a way of allowing ourselves to leave the men that are not worthy of us regardless of the real reason. It's easier to let go when you think that the guy is just not that into you because it hurts the ego to think that, and heck if I want to hang on to someone that is just not that into me. I can see your reasoning behind this viewpoint.
What is harder for a lot of women in general though is believing that there is someone around the corner who is going to be very into us and treat us a lot better without looking into a crystal ball. It's not that women like to be with a "lukewarm" man. I think it's just fear that we won't run into that person who is better for us out there and so we hang on to a belief that the behavior of this man will turn around because it's easier to do this. I know poor excuse but I can speak for a lot of women on my behalf. I've been through it in the past before I met my current boyfriend and one of my good friends is going through it now. Well, she's having a hard time letting go of a man that she's not that into because she's afraid she won't find someone better and she's afraid of being alone
It's not having the faith that makes it hard for a lot of women. When I was dating I was thinking how can I have faith when there will always be that uncertainty, but then I kept telling myself that at least I can give it a shot and see even if it's not certain that I"ll meet the one.
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-31-2005
Wed, 02-21-2007 - 5:23pm

Though I'm not so adamant about the book as you are, I do see your point and agree with a lot of it. I also agree that as a woman, it's easy to get caught in the trap of using what I know and applying it to a male's rationale when really there is no correlation. Fortunately, I grew up around a lot of guys so had the advantage of getting to know a little about the male psyche.


I'd like to see more of your opinions on the board instead of just quotes from the book though. After all, you are the best resource into how a man thinks! :)


iVillage Member
Registered: 05-28-2006
Wed, 02-21-2007 - 10:02pm

LOL I don't know about that. I like that Mark is here too, and wish there were more guys. I'm not 100% up on what all of us guys think, even though I might like to pretend I am! But I'm pretty dang sure that I know more about how us guys think than the vast majority of women, because I 100% absolutely KNOW that I don't get how women think. Why else would I be reading iVillage? :)

In this caes, I'm quoting the book because it is exactly what I think. I think too many perfectly good women are wasting their time worrying and wondering and thinking about some guy who isn't into them instead of just moving on to the guy who IS going to be into them. And I think that way too often, women want to think that the guy is a creep instead of just admitting to themselves "he's not that into me".

Admitting that is hard, because it seems to imply that there's something wrong with us. We rule- why would someone not be into us, right? If someone isn't, then we must be too skinny/fat/loud/quiet/ugly/intimidating/funny/sad/whatever.

But that's not how the real world works. In the real world, even some really fabulous, funny people aren't married for life, or wind up splitting up because they're just not right for each other.

So the other way to take HJNTIY is as something really empowering. What's this guy's problem? HJNTIY. Oh, okay- time to move on, now you know! Why screw around with someone who isn't asking you out, or treating you right?

Just think of the power that holds- no more moping around, no more wondering "it's been 10 days and he hasn't asked me out again even though we IM daily and talk every other day on the phone, what should I do?" Guy does that to you, it's obvious that HJNTIY, boom, move on and now you're that much closer to the RIGHT guy!

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-28-2006
Wed, 02-21-2007 - 10:10pm

"What is harder for a lot of women in general though is believing that there is someone around the corner who is going to be very into us and treat us a lot better without looking into a crystal ball. It's not that women like to be with a "lukewarm" man. I think it's just fear that we won't run into that person who is better for us out there and so we hang on to a belief that the behavior of this man will turn around because it's easier to do this."
______________________

True confession time- guys do this too. In fact, it's a big part of HJNTIY- a guy might not really be all that into a woman, but he doesn't really want to leave her for whatever reason- and sometimes it's that he's afraid he won't find someone who's a better fit.

Heck, I'm getting to that point with my present gf. She's great- smart, funny, good-looking, sexy, independent. The sex is spectacular- we have awesome chemistry. Unfortunately, we also don't see things the same way, and it's turning out that it's some pretty important things that we disagree on. I'm starting to think that maybe I'm JNTIher; I'm into her, but not THAT into her.

So taking that leap of faith- sitting down and saying "hey, you know what, this isn't working for me. You're awesome, I'm awesome, but we aren't really awesome together" is a hard talk to have, because it shakes my faith. Heck, here's this really great woman, so much on the ball, great sex, but I can't make it work out with her? WTF is wrong with me? Can I find another one like this only a better fit?

But you know what? We gotta move on. Because in the relationships that don't fit, sooner or later the parts that chafe start to really rub us raw, and we become more and more miserable.

I don't know for sure if that's what's up with me and my gf now. It might just be that I'm a committment-phobe and now that I've found someone who is into me (she's WAY into me, and admits it and even worries that she's feeling too strongly) I'm freaking out. I'm working on that. :)

But if not, I know I'm not going to do the HJNTIY stuff. I've been there, done that, got the t-shirt and besides, if I start doing that stuff again, my best female friend (who I dated very briefly and who's now married to a super guy) would totally kick my butt.

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-31-2005
Wed, 02-21-2007 - 10:50pm
Curious and not to sidetrack the OP, but how long have you been with your gf?

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