OLD rules for women & for men

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-18-2003
OLD rules for women & for men
9
Mon, 04-11-2005 - 10:48pm

Suzanne's 8 Simple Internet Dating Rules For Women


It's not that the following tips don't apply to men — for the most part, they do. It's just that there are certain mistakes women are more prone to making.


#1: Seek out potential matches rather than wait for them to e-mail you.


Men can be lazy. They'll often e-mail practically any woman with two eyes, a nose and a mouth without bothering to ask themselves, "Hmmm, does she have anything in common with me?" It's no mystery why the couples from The Bachelor have split up (Aaron and Helene? Hello?) while the two couples from The Bachelorette have stayed together: When women do the choosing, the odds improve.


#2: Don't lie about anything. Ever.


If you're 40, don't say you're 39. If you're separated from your husband, don't imply you're divorced. Eventually the truth will surface, and the guy is going to be mighty annoyed with your fudging. Wouldn't you be? By the way, this advice goes for pictures, too. Choose a current photo that accurately reflects your appearance, not some babe shot of you from 10 years and 20 pounds ago. (Not that you're not babe-like right now, but you know what I mean.) Just like your mom said, honesty is the best policy.


#3: Don't have more than five e-mail exchanges before either making a date or cutting the guy loose.


Online chemistry does NOT guarantee in-person chemistry, and you might find yourself entangled in a sticky situation that could have easily been avoided. You might also set yourself up for a crushing blow. So don't pour your heart out to someone you've never met, okay? Within about five e-mails, you should have enough information to determine whether there's the slightest bit of potential. At that point, fish or cut bait.


#4: Don't talk on the phone before meeting.


Pre-date phone calls are a big fat waste of time! Even the most amazing conversation — one that goes on for hours without any uncomfortable pauses — doesn't guarantee an in-person spark. By the same token, a lousy phone conversation tells you nothing, since it's just plain awkward talking on the telephone with a stranger. You may inadvertently end up eliminating a good match. Go straight from e-mail to a date.


#5: Meet for coffee first — no dinners!


If sparks fly, you can always plan a bonafide date. If the meeting is a bust, you'll have only cost yourself 30 minutes and the price of a Frappuccino — and you'll have avoided the agony of making small talk for two hours with a guy who has the personality of a toolbox. I view these coffee dates "pre-dates" sort of like the process of getting pre-approved for a loan: You cover a short list of questions, and you know whether it's thumbs up or down before having to go through the whole rigaramole. Besides, with virtually nothing at stake, you'll be a lot less nervous than you might on a real date, and you won't come away disappointed.


#6: Arrive early, buy your own drink, bring a newspaper and have an exit line.


The dynamics of a coffee pre-date can be strange. You wonder: Will you recognize each other? Who should pay? How do you politely extricate yourself if it's a disaster? You can minimize the weirdness by being prepared. Show up five minutes early, buy your latte, then sit down with some reading material in a spot where you're easily visible. This way you can relax as you wait for your date rather than stand around feeling silly and conspicuous. When he arrives, you'll shake hands, then he'll go off to buy his drink. This scenario buys you some time to process your initial impressions and formulate your first questions.


In case your date turns out to be an obvious mismatch, have a good escape line you can whip out of your back pocket after about 30 minutes. Make it something plausible and concrete, like, "Well, it was great to meet you! I've got to go buy a baby shower gift for my girlfriend before Baby Gap closes."


#7: Change your search criteria every few weeks.


Whether it's the age range, geographical location, eductional status or height of your potential match, loosen your requirements every so often. Even if you think you'd NEVER date a guy who's 5' 7" or didn't graduate from college, you just never know when someone worthy of making an exception might surface. In general, I think it's important to set boundaries; otherwise, you'll spend an excessive amount of time online. But shake things up every so often.


Case in point: me. I stopped e-mailing guys younger than me because I virtually never got responses (men in their early thirties seem to fear that women in their mid-thirties will want to get pregnant on the first date). But one day, just for the heck of it, I dropped my age criteria by one year and found a cute guy who actually e-mailed back. He's now my husband.


#8: Keep your expectations low.


The best thing about Internet dating is that it fills you with hope. You log on and see there are hundreds upon thousands of singles your age. It's even more thrilling when you discover a profile that seems so perfect it's just uncanny. Maybe the two of you grew up in the same town and have the same favorite movie and both love yoga and artichokes and Billie Holliday. Great, but don't read too much into it. You may have to go on dozens of dates before you find a spark, and it can be a big energy drain to repeatedly experience disappointment. If you moderate your expectations low, the worst that happens is you shrug your shoulders. And you might just end up pleasantly surprised.



Suzanne's 9 Simple Internet Dating Rules For Men


#1 Don't send generic e-mails.


You're not hawking low mortgage rates, okay? Do not spam 50 women with the same one-size-fits-all message, like "You seem really great and it looks like we have a lot in common." Don't e-mail a woman unless you can articulate SPECIFIC REASONS why you are interested. For example: "Hey, I loved what you said about hiking the Sierra. I'm a big hiker, too." Also, it's important to include questions in your e-mail to keep the conversation going. For instance: "So do you have any backpacking trips planned? What types of vacations do you like to take?"


#2 Don't brag.


Don't say things like, "I recently paid off my new five-bedroom home and am well on my way to being a millionaire," or "I'm often asked if I'm a model or an actor, but I'm more the writer/intellectual type." Egotism is not attractive!


#3 Reveal something interesting about yourself in your profile.


You're not writing a police report! You've got to offer something more enticing than, "I am a single white male, 5'11'', 165 pounds, brown hair, hazel eyes. I have a home in Gardena and work for a small company in Cerritos. I'm an electrical engineer that designs electrical systems. I grew up in Iowa and moved to Nebraska for college. Well, I guess that's about all for now." What activities do you do for fun? What qualities are important to you in a woman? You get the idea.


#4 Don't say you're looking for a woman who "likes to laugh" or "likes to have fun."


Who doesn't like to laugh? Who hates having fun? You might as well write, "Looking for a woman who breathes air." While you're at it, you can delete all references to "romantic walks on the beach" and your desire to find a woman who is "equally comfortable riding in a limo wearing a slinky cocktail dress as she is watching TV in jeans and a T-shirt."


By the way, what's with this "equally comfortable" business? Why demand equal comfort levels with events that normally take place with radically unequal frequency? What kind of people ride in limos as often as they watch TV? Guys: Keep your profiles more on the level of reality than fantasy.


#5 Don't specify a hair color or — God forbid — a weight limit or breast size that you're looking for in a woman.


You're not shopping for a new stereo, so forget the long list of required features. Try for one minute to focus on a woman's PERSONALITY and INTERESTS rather than her cup size.


#6 Do your homework before a date.


Before each meeting, take a few minutes to glance at the profile of the woman you're going to meet and commit a few details to memory. "So how long have you been practicing law?" is going to go over a lot better than, "So, like, wait — you're a doctor? No, wait, I remember . . . a lawyer!"


#7 Ask questions.


Nothing is more attractive to a woman than inquisitiveness. Instead of blabbing incessantly about yourself, try this: Pretend you're a TV reporter and your job is to unearth enough information about your date to file a segment on the nightly news. Of course, revealing something of yourself is a good idea, but don't dominate the date, okay?


#8 Don't talk about your other Internet dates while on an Internet date.


It's tempting to spend your date talking about how weird this whole Internet dating thing is and recounting your strange dating experiences. Resist the temptation! The focus should be on you and the woman who's sitting in front of you (see #5 and #6).


#9 Don't say "I'll call you" if you don't intend to.


In the Internet dating world, there are code words for "I'm not interested" — like "Well, nice to meet you!" or "See you online!" Use these exit lines if you've decided you don't want to see a woman again. Don't give a gal false hope, alright? If you're interested in a second date and she has not offered her phone number, e-mail her the next day and ask for it. Don't ask for her number right then and there; she may feel compelled to give it to you out of a sense of politeness even though she's not interested.



By Suzanne Schlosberg,

 

 

 

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-02-2004
Mon, 04-11-2005 - 11:01pm

I agreed with everything except #4 as well. It would be too weird to go meet someone you've never spoken to.

The rules for men are very good, but do you think men will even read that??? HA!!!

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-16-2004
Tue, 04-12-2005 - 5:41am

When I read this I thought " at last someone else who thinks that the phone is a complete waste of time "....

Then I read the other responses and both think the phone is a must.

To me it's been another time waster -- gettting into prolonged conversations before meeting has created a false sense of knowing the person. In the few instances where I've had the phone calls, I've never been able to gather enough red flags to convince myself not to meet.

I think the recommendations for women are great and right on the money.

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-19-2004
Tue, 04-12-2005 - 9:26am
I actually agree with #4 as well. I've had the best experiences when we haven't talked on the phone first. The phone conversations, especially when they drag on, are major time wasters, IMO, and worse, can definitely lead to unrealistic expectations, just like interminable emailing.
iVillage Member
Registered: 07-03-2004
Tue, 04-12-2005 - 9:29am
For me, phone calls are only to firm up plans at the beginning. If I'm seeing someone regularly, calls are only to -- say hi, bye and see ya soon!
iVillage Member
Registered: 11-18-2003
Tue, 04-12-2005 - 9:43am
Oh - that's the main use for the phone that I have too. The last guy I talked with kept me on the phone line for 45 min. He even said at one point, "What should we talk about now?" I thought, "How about you suggest that we meet and hang up the darn phone so I can go to bed?" . I didn't know how to politely get out the conversation b/c up until that point I had never talked to

 

 

 

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-03-2004
Tue, 04-12-2005 - 10:00am

Oh, jh, I feel your pain! 45 minutes, OMG! Did your ears bleed?

You've got to learn some phone skills. Remember, I work for a lawyer and get clients on the phone all the time who really really want to chat about their situations. So I've learned to take control of the phone conversation immediately.

When I've arranged to call/get called by a new guy, I've told him it was strictly to firm up plans -- and as soon as we do, I say, "great, I'm looking forward to meeting you. Bye now."

Thank God for call display -- I don't answer his calls until we've met. If he's calling to cancel he can leave a message. Once we've met and things are going well, I waste no time letting him know I am NOT a phone person!

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-19-2003
Tue, 04-12-2005 - 8:24pm

Generic Rules for Women

#1: Seek out potential matches rather than wait for them to e-mail you.

AMEN!!! I'm sooo so tired of hearing people say "You're looking too hard, if you just sit back, love will find you..."

Well just think, if EVERYONE used this advice, NO ONE would ever find anyone because no one would ever be looking??? right??? A man and woman pass right by each other in the bookstore, too busy staring at their own feet waiting for someone to "find" them...

To find love, someone has to be looking right? I figure I would always rather take a pro-active approach instead of an in-active approach at finding someone.

#2: Don't lie about anything. Ever.

I agree here whole-heartedly. Say what you mean, but mean what you say!! If you honestly can't date anyone, for whatever reason, that is under 6 foot tall, get that right out front. If you don't like a smoker, say it.

Plus the second you start lying, it is hard to remember where the truth is when it all starts to turn around and unravel. And it will... guaranteed.

Honesty is always the best policy.

#3: Don't have more than five e-mail exchanges before either making a date or cutting the guy loose.

I would sort of agree with this, but don't leave it all up to the man to make the date option come up. I'd say if he doesn't bring it up, you bring it up and if he seems skittish about it, that might be a red flag for you that something is up.

I would love nothing more than for the woman to come up with a meeting idea that I could go along with, it shouldn't always be up to the man? She has just as much to gain from finding a compatible partner as he does right?

#4: Don't talk on the phone before meeting.

I agree and disagree... I would say don't have a protracted 4 hour conversation on the phone with someone. BUT, I do think a short phone conversation is very good to reading more into the compatibility aspect. You can tell their mannerisms a bit for one thing which I know is a turn-off for some people in some cases.

Since intelligence for me is such a key factor, I can generally tell how intelligent someone is by talking to them live on the phone. When someone emails you or chats with you, it is hard sometimes to hear their "intelligence" coming through.

#5: Meet for coffee first — no dinners!

I agree... or meeting at the mall to get an Orange Julius and walk around, bookstore cafe... all kinds of things. Excellent advice.

#6: Arrive early, buy your own drink, bring a newspaper and have an exit line.

Excellent advice. Just hope you BOTH don't use this advice, that would be even more funny though?? Both of you showing up early and waiting in line to buy coffee... might actually be kind of a good ice-breaker??

#7: Change your search criteria every few weeks.

I agree. So many people seem to get so set in their ways about what they want, sometimes they ignore or avoid someone perfect for them that is just standing two feet to the right of center... It isn't "settling" as many people refer to it, but no one should ever expect to get 100% or even probably 90% of everything they were looking for in someone else. Some of that percentage has to be found and cultivated I think or at least be "bargainable" in some way.

I always figure that I have a set of "must haves" which is a pretty short list, the "core aspects" that have to be there at least 80-90% and then the "bonus items" extra things they may have in common with me or something, but would not be deal-breakers if they didn't. So if someone meets my must have criteria, 80-90% of my core wants/desires and a couple of the bonus items. They would probably be a good match for me.

#8: Keep your expectations low.

I wouldn't say "keep them low"... but I would say just don't get them up too high. That is a problem that happens sometimes when too much "getting to know you" time is spent on emails or the phone or chat... you get an image in your mind of what this person is like and when you actually meet, it is not possible for them to match your dream image... there is a possibility you will be let down somewhat in that regard.

Suzanne's 9 Simple Internet Dating Rules For Men

#1 Don't send generic e-mails.

I agree a bit with this. What I do is make a good solid foundation letter describing myself... and then I add another section that specifically relates to the person I'm responding too.

Problem for most guys is, we can send out 200 messages to women and only get 5-10 responses back... how are we supposed to know the exact 5-10% of the women we should have written to in the first place??

I mean, according to almost every profile I read, I'm a perfect match for them and there is no reason they should not want to communicate back with me. Then why is it that only a small small portion of the ladies ever do respond... and even with those, some of them are just scam artists trying to get you to "marry a Russian woman" or "visit my hot webcam babe site"...

Of course they could just be looking at my photo and making a snap judgement right there that they aren't attracted to me. That is always a possibility. But I'm always willing to give women the benefit of the doubt that they might be more attractive in person than in 1 static photo I have seen. (and usually that IS the case)

#2 Don't brag.

I agree with this as well. This only works for women that are specifically after whatever you are bragging about. Generally this is not the type of woman I'm interested in anyway if they are materialistic or something.

#3 Reveal something interesting about yourself in your profile.

I try to do this, but sometimes what I consider interesting, the average woman may consider boring possibly?? It all depends. And there can be a fine line between saying something interesting about yourself and bragging as listed above. It all depends on who is reading the profile on the other end.

#4 Don't say you're looking for a woman who "likes to laugh" or "likes to have fun."

Actually, I include this because you'd be surprised at the amount of women I've met that DON'T have a sense of humor at all. I don't think that this phrase is a definate "turn off" to women and I only include it to further show that I'm a likeable guy that likes to laugh and can tell jokes and stuff.

And if we aren't supposed to say these specific things, what else can we say to convey the same meaning??

#5 Don't specify a hair color or — God forbid — a weight limit or breast size that you're looking for in a woman.

Only specify that if that is all that you are looking for... but it immediately places you in the "wants sex only" category more than likely. Most women would definately steer clear unless this is what they wanted as well.

#6 Do your homework before a date.

It is always good to have a few facts noted about them, give you some conversation pieces to talk about. Relate it to something similar about yourself too.

#7 Ask questions.

More important than just asking questions... LISTEN TO THE ANSWERS!!! How many guys just seem to rattle off the questions like you are taking a test and not really listening to what you say in return???

Yes it is important to ask questions, be interested in her, genuinely interested. But remember, you have 1 mouth and 2 ears, you should listen twice as hard as you speak...

#8 Don't talk about your other Internet dates while on an Internet date.

Yeah, don't bring up ex'es either... taboo subject.

#9 Don't say "I'll call you" if you don't intend to.

And I'd also say that if a guy asks for your phone number, or email... don't give him some bogus number or email just to dump him. Just politely tell him the truth, that you don't think it is working out or something... just be honest.

The most upset I had ever been after a date was when I thought things went fairly well and had asked for and received her phone number only to find out it was a bogus number. Honest rejection is one thing... being lied too while being rejected... that just plain sucks!

Bryan

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-31-2004
Tue, 04-12-2005 - 8:36pm
I agree. I don't like to talk on the phone either. It is a waste of time. The only way to see is to meet someone in person in a safe public place.
iVillage Member
Registered: 06-19-2003
Tue, 04-12-2005 - 9:27pm

Oh, I thought of one to add...

If you have any kind of connection with the person you are with...

DO NOT ANSWER YOUR CELLPHONE during the date unless it is a total total (kids at home or something) emergency!!!

That is like THE rudest thing ever! Usually women seem to use that as their "bail move" sometimes...

"oh, somethings come up and I've got to go"...

And even if it is not, it is still very very rude to do that (take an unimporant call).

You know they even sell cellphones now that have a call timer that you can set for like 15-30 minutes that will automatically ring. That way in the middle of a date, your phone will go off, you can look at it (as though you are studying who is calling) and then choose to answer it and fake an excuse to bail out, or ignore it, hang up and continue your date.

A variation on the old "having your girlfriend call you at 8:30 to bail out" routine... :)

Bryan