a piece of suggestion

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-29-2004
a piece of suggestion
35
Mon, 03-21-2005 - 11:28pm

Hi there,

I've noticed that here we're talking a lot about "red flags", such as "you should be careful with guys who are so and so" etc. There are things people can change (such as hygiene, selection of clothings etc.), or cannot change. Commenting about something people can't change in this public forum as a red flag sounds plain brutal and thoughtless to me. Examples I can think about are talking about people who are:
- being short
- being certain ethnicity
- being single and have never married before
- having some health problem
- having non-attractive physical features

Are we super models or perfect people? I think everyone needs a little break and we shouldn't be harsh on something we can't change.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 02-07-2005
Tue, 03-22-2005 - 12:36am

Hi Tonka,

I believe some things are referred to as personal preferences and not necessarily meant as red flags with physical characteristics or body style. I am a very short person, at only 5'1", but if a guy is not interested in me because I am petite, then I am not hurt because of it - it is his loss! I take no offense to guys who like and are attracted to taller ladies, because that is their personal preference and they aren't cutting down short people unless they explicitly say I do not like short people because of these reasons....

I believe when we say be careful of guys that are so and so, that comes from personal experience and we just want to help people to possibly not experience something negative we went through with that type of person. But in the long run, if a person is attratced to that type of person, they will usually go by their own feelings and pursue it and not go by the warnings from others.

As far as being single and having never been married before that you listed - yes I do question that aspect some about guys because some people do have commitment issues, or they may be too selfish in their life patterns to change and to incorporate a partner. I am actually seeing a guy now who is single at 37, never been married or had children, but I am still seeing him (over 2 months now) and got past those issues because he is a genuinely nice guy. He told me that he just never met the right girl and I know that is entirely possible as I have a sister close to that age who would have loved to have been married and have had children by now, but she "never met the right guy" - well yet anyway.

But I can understand what you are saying about things we might see as "red flags" seeming harsh at times. We come from a society that puts so much emphasis on physical beauty that we question ourselves from a young age and onward. Are we all women supposed to look as waifer thin as the super models, etc., as the magazines depict? I think not. Not many young ladies understand that these models and celebrities are air brushed in their pics, and in real life have blemishes, wider thighs and buttocks, etc. than they look to be in their pics, just like normal people do. They don't look as nice without their makeup either!

I mean, we also have the shows like "Extreme Makeover" that radically change a person within an hour (what we see anyway!)and serve to make people crave these changes within themselves. I feel that marketing in the beauty areas basically serves to make us want what we don't have and to crave to always be better and to get better things. There is no such thing as contentment there...

I have met people who are not as physically attractive, yet who shine from within with lovely personalities that glow from the outside also. Then I have met very attractive people who have crappy personalities and are so fakey and hollow within. To me it all boils down to believing in yourself and having a positive attitude about life and how you live your life that makes you a more attractive person to others and to yourself.

I may not be a super model, but my 5'1" body is full of energy and of a zest for living life!

Sunshine

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-17-2002
Tue, 03-22-2005 - 9:20am
tonka, I think you are confusing red flags with personal preference. IMO, red flags are things like: not divorced yet, only talks about himself, talks about sex in the first couple emails, things like that. Personal preferences are the things you talk about in your post (with the exception of the never been married - many might consider that a red flag or at least a pink one). But for me, YES, I prefer to date a man that is taller than me, is Caucasian, is healthy, active and someone I find attractive. These are not "red flags" if they don't have them but rather just what I look for. I am willing to compromise on preferences but red flags are things that are pretty much deal breakers for me.

131.gif image by y_baros th5K.gif image by jade_simo

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-29-2004
Tue, 03-22-2005 - 2:15pm

o.k. as long as this is just our own preference, would it be o.k. to bring up and talk ANYTHING that could possibly harm some others' feelings? Thank god, I'm 5'2" and don't have much pressure as guys, but if I were a guy, what would I feel that many women talking, "I wouldn't date with shorter guys." etc. even if I'm pretty strong, cool, and o.k. with such discouraging comments? You can just post your preference in your own profile, you don't need to bring it up or criticize others just because they don't fit your preference in a public forum, and "opps, I didn't mean all people, it's just someone I know." doesn't justify your comment. Have you thought about what these people would feel when they see these messages? I suppose if we're one of them, we can really feel how cruel that is, as we have to constantly fight with social labeling and stereotypes already. Keeping sound self-esteem sometimes requires extra work for them, and we don't have to stab those people's backs just for our "preferences." Most people are cool and strong, but still, I don't think it's nice to post.

Talking about people who never got married before, I've seen an absurd post that someone talking about people over certain age and still single are basically outsiders. As you pointed out, there're many reasons why there're people who are still single, and it's not always the case that they have avoided commitments. If you say you are just talking about your preference, you should talk about "commitment phobias", not "over xx y.o. and still single" etc. You may be the lucky one who once married before reaching the age, but would it justify that you generalize the idea of marriage expectancy age and pointing a finger on the classification of "over xx y.o. and still single" group and posting it in the public forum? It's plain rude to many, and frankly, it shows the person's thoughtlessness and ignorance.

There's a fine line between insults as others perceive and innocent and harmless talk posters intend about other people. I wonder if some of those comments about others need to be there. We all have somewhat preferences about others, but you don't have to talk everything loud. As you pointed out, this is a good support forum for those who have OWN problems and want to seek advices, as I've seen many good postings, but when we talk about own preferences and comment on others' features, we need to be careful so that we won't hurt others' feelings.

Thanks for reading!

Tonka

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-29-2003
Tue, 03-22-2005 - 2:42pm

Women get it all the time about their weight. Men can be ruthless about womens' bodies. They just typically don't post about it on message boards.

This is a public message board and one that allows people to spout their opinions, no matter how pc or not. You don't have to read the posts that offend you.

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-17-2002
Tue, 03-22-2005 - 2:46pm

Well, I hope you never felt offended at any of the conversations that occurred. I am quite sure that wasn't anyone's intent. But IMO, this board is a forum for just that kind of talk. Did you see the way that some of the discussions have at the very least given those that were once adamantly AGAINST a particular thing something to think about(e.g. the roommates discussion or the never been married discussion)? I think that we may all come in here with preconceived notions and at times we might just want validation that we are normal for thinking that way or at least not totally wacko (even though we might be).

For instance, I also feel uncomfortable that people might judge me because I am 34 and never been married. But I know people do judge me for that and if we can't talk about it out here with some level of anonymity, where can we talk about it? And I am sure that in the many of the cases that we are talking about, that it isn't something that the person/group in question hasn't already wondered. For instance, I am sure that shorter men already know they might have problems dating women that tower over them or us 30 something Singletons might even wonder about ourselves "what the heck is wrong with me that I can't find someone?"

The thing I like about this board is that I can feel free to express my opinion but also be challenged on that opinion (and in some cases jumped on for my opinion but I don't like that part!) in a way that makes me rethink my position. We should all be able to make observations, don't you think? I have learned so much from people voicing their viewpoints on issues that I thought I was so adamant about. And I hope that at times I have contributed things that make others think about what they have said. But if they didn't feel comfortable making that observation in the first place, how can they ever learn to change it? Ignorance is not necessarily thoughtlessness as it is IGNORANCE or the lack of knowing any better/different. It would be better to educate these people out of their ignorance than to let it continue.

131.gif image by y_baros th5K.gif image by jade_simo

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-29-2004
Tue, 03-22-2005 - 2:48pm
Others do it, so it's o.k. that we do it, is that your point?
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-29-2003
Tue, 03-22-2005 - 2:56pm
I try not to judge what other people do on a public board. Nor do I take offense at what a stranger has written about me or anyone else really. It doesn't impact me in the slightest because I have enough confidence in myself to not let a stranger's judgment hurt my feelings. I don't particularly care for the PC police either. You can change the channel, read a book, find something else to do if you're offended but I don't think most people here would stick around as long as they have if they were indeed offended. That's MY opinion, not others, but you asked.
Avatar for northwestwanderer
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Tue, 03-22-2005 - 3:10pm

I'm confused...how is being short a red flag?? I think you might be reading too much into posts where people express a preference.

Sheri

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-21-2004
Tue, 03-22-2005 - 4:04pm
You wanna see ruthless, cruel

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Avatar for northwestwanderer
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Tue, 03-22-2005 - 4:05pm

I didn't read the whole thread before I posted my original response...

I personally don't care if someone posts about their preferences being something that I'm not. If someone prefers to date thinner women (I'm a bit overweight), that's their choice! It's no skin off my nose, and it's not "stabbing my back". It's just expressing a preference. Now, if they also express a negative opinion about me *solely* because of my weight...that's a different story, but not wanting to date me? Big deal!

I also disagree that it's "rude" to talk about whether being unmarried and a certain age is a red flag. There are reasons it may be a red flag, and there are reasons it may not be. What's the harm in discussing those?

Sheri

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