Re-Interpretation of Men's Need to Chase
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Re-Interpretation of Men's Need to Chase
| Wed, 04-05-2006 - 10:11pm |
I've been pondering this subject for awhile, making observations and such. It seems to me that both good and "bad" men appear similar on this subject. I'd been trying to reconcile the seeming contradictions, when it occurred to me that what men really need to do is wait. Some men make it a chase in that they push women to give them what they think they want before either one is really ready, destroying true intimacy. These are the men I define as players, whether they whine and plead or try to create a false sense of connection talking about the future, etc. to get sex. My observations of men is that once they've gotten sex even one time, the chase is over. Then they look over what they've gotten and decide whether they want it or not. Good men recognize this phenomenon in themselves and don't go around trifling with women's affections, breaking hearts. However, for some men, it's the name of the game. To some men, also, physical closeness is intimacy, period, which is a problem if you want a real relationship: emotional closeness, understanding, etc. I really think that we as women need to make sure we've got the man "hooked" before we give-up much beyond casual friendship, and then make sure it's someone worth having: that will be true, have lasting affection, etc. Before I happened upon the concept of their needing to wait, I thought men were capricious and arbitrary. I think this is why it's good not to push a man in a relationship nor let oneself be pushed. Any man who pushes doesn't have his own or the woman's best interests at heart. Just my two cents...

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Men are looking for the physical qualities first because we want to commit. We just don't want to commit to a woman who isn't sexually compatible. It is the thing that scares us the most. The chase is inspired by what we seek, and women start the chase by hinting it might be a sexual encounter.
We know we can score by the third date, but its the guy who gets his clothes ripped off his body the first night that we all want to be. Yeah, it is ego, but how come women will do that to a guy they "just have to have" and have no other interest because he is too young or has no "qualifications" like education, job, and still lives with mama.
In this age of "no" means "no" once it is spoken, no matter how "yes" it has been up to that moment, men have developed a pattern. They will chase a woman who makes sex an absolutely wonderful sensational thing. If she can't do that, who cares if she is a good heart and beautiful personality. If I do not like the sex with her, I won't get involved. And I won't call back for more bad sex! I am not going to commit so I can find out if the sex will be good, but that seems to be an acceptable arrangment to women.
The way you have couched your "ponder" on the subject, I can only tell you like this, since you don't know men's needs and think it is just about sex. Men are chasing the woman they will commit to. Intimacy to a man is something that doesn't start with sex. Sex is sex. Intimacy is sharing a spiritual connection. Intimacy is trust that she won't perform BJ on all his friends, as in the OJ Simpson case (most people don't know why Nicole was able to easily enrage OJ, it is because she would get even after a fight by giving head to people he knew). To a man, intimacy is letting her know everything she needs to know to humiliate the hell out of him to family and friends, but would never do it, because she is his true soulmate. A man is not being intimate when he is having sex. A man cannot make love to a woman he doesn't trust intimately. Get it?
So, to reach that level, a man wants to know that he goes home each night of his life to a woman who will perhaps tear off his clothes and do him in the foyer. A man does not want to spend his life wondering if he will get lucky tonight with a stranger he has been with for years. A woman whose genitalia are physically matched to his own.
Most men don't begin making love to a woman until they have decided they want to marry her, I bet you didn't even know that. I said "making" love. They might be in love, but until they trust her to be in love with him, he will just have a lot of good sex. It's when he starts making love to her that he starts finding a way to pop the question, and has started sharing his deep inner feelings by then.
Male sex is about gratification until we find a sexually compatible woman with whom we can be spiritually intimate. Women think that their sharing of their sex is being "intimate". Men often discover that you share intimacy with your GFs instead! That is why the divorce reveals two people who don't really know each other at all. That is why the GFs know her better than he does. That is why you have the wrong idea about sex. Sex and making love are parts of intimacy, and as the successful bond adds to its years, intimacy grows, love making becomes a high art of mutual satisfaction, and less often!!!
Most women really do not share intimacy (as a man defines it) with their men. Women do share that form of intimacy with their friends though,which begins the alienation process. Sharing your sex life is not "intimacy" it is a part of the intimate relationship. American women typically have sex with their men and share intimacy with their girlfriends. How sad!
A man develops a sex "life" with a woman. When he feels he has found the right one, he then becomes intimate. Chasing is just something we do on cue. A man will chase if that is the game. What you think he is chasing is what makes it a game. You are negotiating a visit with your vagina for a commitment. He is chasing the dream that your vagina is the only one he wants to visit exclusively for the rest of his life. What women don't know about men is that when we find it, we manage to fall in love with a woman no matter what she looks like, how she talks, how she cooks, or who her family is. I bet that answers some questions for a few of you! If she can communicate and be trusted, she's gold, especially if she is a good mother when the moment comes!!!!!
So, if he scores on the first date, and doesn't call back, his and/or your genitalia were not adequate, or if they were, you couldn't get into synch, or he just didn't think you were what he thought you would be. None of these are bad things unless you waited until the third date for it to happen. Women get hurt by it because they shop for a man's gene's and think that is OK, but when he shops for (chases) the sexual partner he will decide to give his life to, you get hurt if it isn't you.
And you don't even know him!!!! So why are you hurt? You can never really know a man until you have slept with him many times, a fact women choose to ignore. Why? Because you usually reject him once you know him! There are few men out there who are right for you because you have unrealistic goals. It creates a problem: you won't sleep with that many men to find him. We are not all debonaire, educated, financially secure, handsome ( well I am, but we all are not), but most American men are fantastic and wonderful husbands and dads, even to children of other men. And their sons are out there looking for YOU!
If you are going to have hurt feelings, feel hurt that after you gave it your best shot, but the man refuses to become intimate and was just using you, then you have won "the chase". He lost. You get another chance.
Bottom line? You are looking for the real man, right? A real man won't use you for sex until you discover he has no intentions. But he will want to have sex with you enough to decide if you are who he will start being intimate with. Then it is your "chase" to win or lose. Begin to nurture him at this point, don't repeat things to GFs and family. Teach him he can trust you, his chasing days with you will never end.
I completely agree and I have learned this only recently which is a shame since I am 46. I have a co-worker who I have had a crush on for 5 years who found out about my crush from a mutual co-worker. He is 51 and has been divorced for 5 years. The divorce has cruelly damaged him and the thought of having a relationship with someone literally terrifies him. We started "talking" in December (the Friday before Christmas) and we continue to get closer very slowly with time. You can practically see him take that difficult baby step forward...wobble around.....leaning toward the back wanting to play it safe....but takes the next baby step. This has taught me so much. I was always the type of woman who tried to lock-em in if you will. Well it hasn't worked well for me up to now so I was real open to being quite patient. I also see this man as someone that is worth the wait. Now what is happening is (he works on the other side of the floor) when he comes over to my side he smiles big. You know that smile like we have a secret. He use to work in the area I do now and has a few friends still here that he visits. Sometimes he comes and says hi and other times he doesn't. Sometimes he takes his whole break and just visits me. He is growing a beard that he hates and I think it is quite hot. He knows that I like it and keeps it for me. (Yes he has told me) I love watching things progress knowing that I am making good choices for not only me but for him and hopefully what might be "us" one day. In the meantime I am open to meeting other men and dating others.
Men are quite complicated creatures but I have found if you don't push them they will come around if it's meant to be. It's when its not meant to be is when women have a tendency to blame the men for their disinterest.
F
I really enjoyed your post - thought provoking to say the least.
So how is a woman supposed to balance all this with the biological fact that (most) women get emotionally attached pretty much from the first time they have sex with a man due to the effect of the hormone oxytocin?
*That* is (one reason at least) why a woman gets hurt if she is rejected after sleeping with a man.
In any event, I am thankful that there ARE men out there who are willing to take the chance of waiting a while to see if our genitals are compatible (thanks for the coffee-spew line of the day, btw!).
Sheri
The hormonal response due to oxytocin is no different than any other adrenalin rush.
It is no more than a rush. Let's review our premordial roots, shall we? Sex was not easy to accomplish in our species development phase. It took a lot of time and calories. It was not necessary for day to day survival. Once "mating" was accomplished, this hormonal response in homonids was designed to let the female feel secure and have a mood of being protected. Usually, this made them available for more sex, eventually leading to pregnancy and building a family unit.
Oxytocin reactions in modern humans is something akin to our "reptillian brain" that governs hunger, and deep breathing, rapid heartbeat, and everything else that would stop during a trauma like running for one's life. In other words, it isn't something we choose to experience, it just helps that we can.
Are we slaves to it now? No, clearly, we can decide to have casual sex, and women do not really decide then and there that they are now married (mated) for life.
Perhaps the point was lost in the length of my blog. We should look for a good healthy sex life and accept it as a part of life. In doing that, we will eventually bond with our soulmate. But if we barter our sexual favors for relationships, those relationships most often will fail, especially if there is no mutuality to both gratification and satidfaction.
Men know this. They prefer the bachelor phase of their lives because they will eventually discover both good sex and intimacy with a loving woman. Unfortunately, western women today continue to use sex as a lure, may not really have a good sex life but continue to invest in relationships that provide lifestyle instead. So, opportunistic men will continue to be players because it means more sexual gratification.
From our standpoint it is OK. We know we will eventually find a woman we love and trust. We understand we don't want to fall in love with a woman who isn't a compatible sex partner.
What I said about compatible genitals was just a colorful way to express the joy and sensation. Men and women both know that sexual acts have to meet certain pleasurable criteria so there won't be a "sex" problem in their relationship. Today, men try to make sure they have the right sex partner before they decide to develop an intimate relationship.
It explains a lot of our behaviors if you think about it. If a man keeps coming back, and is properly nurtured, emotionally supported, and desires to have a family, everything works. It all works if the woman agrees to accept him permanently in her life.
Now, both partners have to work on intimacy. Intimacy takes place every moment of the relationship, it is a constant emotional exchange between two monogamous lovers.
You could say that love is a car with four tires. All the tires need to be good ones. Sex is just one tire, and it needs to be as good as the rest, because no four wheel car can run on just three tires.
Oxytocin?? Hey, it helps, but the modern brain has a more highly developed cortex, and choice plays a much bigger part in life than biochemistry. If not, guys would have bottles of the stuff and we would have found a way to get it into the birth control pill by now. Don't you think so?
Hey, anyone got an extra oxytocin? Shakira just took a seat at the bar!!!
Thanks Pea
And just stop thinking about relationship building that way. Try building a stronger
pattern of sexual behavior that gives you good sex, great dates, and hopefully you
will get some of these men to accept invitations from you for movies, a pot roast,
and sports. As they get to know you, you will get to know them. Stay in control of when you have sex. That is fine. Do it because you want to, not because it might keep him coming back. If he wants more than sex, he will come back. Otherwise, he will move on, and don't take it personal. If the relationship was good, and enjoyable, while the sex was safe and gratifying, you both win! And you'll both find someone, just not each other.
You both will have contributed to each other's joy of living, isn't that beautiful enough?
Wow...so, you know better than all the studies and research on the effects of oxytocin??? Impressive! You should publish then!
Most men can have casual sex without emotional attachment...most women cannot. The hormonal effects are different on women than on men. Some women don't have/emit as high levels of oxytocin that others do...these women are more able to have casual sex than those who have high levels.
I have to say, it's pretty funny that you expect women to just accept how you say men "are", but you won't accept that (many) women have different needs. According to you, we just need to go along with what men want and ignore our own biology and needs.
Edited 4/6/2006 4:56 pm ET by northwestwanderer
And the studies reflect that. The growing debate over nature and nurture is only complicated more by gender difference. But you are clinically mistaken that women "can't" overcome the oxytocin rush.
Here is why you are wrong. The immediate biochemical reaction is ephemeral. One
is not permanently affected by it. Second, it evokes an emotioanl response which is a behavioral response. We can control that with choices. We can control and change our behaviors if we are mentally healthy.
Oxytocin is not what you think. Crack acts that way, oxytocin is a hormone and does not. The emotional response gives us an alert, an awareness of what is happening. We either recognize it or we don't. But usually, the mind controls who we chose to live with. And women usually chose whose children they want to have.
As I said, it's a nice rush, but it is not anything more than a passing biochemical reaction, it cannot control behavior, merely predispose us to making certain choices.
The science and psychobiology are all solid on this point.
Your position is a common one women have been quoting for a very long time. Usually, when women want to argue to delay sexual activitiy until they receive a commitment, they try to convince men that they will undergo this metamorphosis. It will cause stress and heartbreak if they start having sex and he leaves them. Women claim that oxytocin will forever imprint them with this guy and they will never be able to find true love with anyone else.
Your studies all show the emotional reaction is nothing more than elevated mood and a sense of well being. Scientists attribute this to the body breaking down the oxytocin (metabolizing the molecule into others) and causing an elevated level of endorphins and dopamines in the brain.
Endorphins account for the rush, while dopamines elevate the libido. That is the science of psychochemistry.
If you were correct, every Parkinson's patient taking l-dopa would imprint on every potential sex partner they see immediately upon medication. They would become emotionally attached because the sight of that person excites their libido. The emotional atttachment does not, in fact, take place. The imprinting does not take place. These patients report they are more interested in sex, more often. That is all.
If oxytocin remained in the body and built up over time, never metabolized, who knows what it would do. But what it does is quickly break down into other things. And it is these things that cause the reactions you speak of.
I've done a lot of reading on this and what you are saying is not at all consistent with what I've read. So for the moment, I'll go with the experts.
In any event, what's all this about "us"? You're not a woman and from what I've read, it's quite well documented that the effects of the hormone are different on men and women, so there's no "us" in this matter.
Personally, I am glad to know there is a biochemical reason for something that has puzzled and frustrated me (and other women) for years. Don't you think that if it were truly easy and possible for women to have casual sex without attachment, we would??? I mean seriously, that would make our lives SO much easier!!!
I cannot have sex without becoming emotionally attached. That's the bottom line. And more women are like me than not. I don't WANT to be that way, but I am. So back to my original question: given that fact, and how you say most men are, what's an appropriate compromise? Or is it your position that women just have to give in, have sex, and get hurt if things don't work out?
And DO NOT try to tell me that I don't really get attached...you do not know how I have struggled with this. Until you have lived in my head and body, you have no grounds to tell me what happens to me.
Sheri
Hi Sheri
My use of collective pronouns generally referred to OUR minds and OUR emotions and the way WE choose to behave.
The metabolism by men and women differs in the way hormones cause us to react, that is true.
I will not say you are not really attached. I did say you are blaming it on oxytocin in more than a few words. That's a cop out that allows you to continue your emotional crises and blame it on men who have sex with you but do not commit.
Yes, women can and do have casual sex, they do it all the time. They do it and usually they manage the attachment issues quite well. Suffice to say, you do not have casual sex. You make love. There is a difference. But you make love to men who have yet to love you. That is why you need to talk with a therapist, sooner would be better.
Don't think I am being unkind, please. You won't find answers in a chat room that will address your form of neurosis. To deal with your problem you need a medically trained therapist, not a psychologist. I see one!
You are troubled by what you have been taught to feel and you have morality issues about having sex. Women do have casual sex quite a lot and they do not suffer mental stress from it because they know they are not making love to a person with whom they have some metaphysical or emotional bond.
Other women, and lots of them are just like you, realize they are risking emotional stress and are willing to if it means a chance at finding a soulmate. And often, they enjoy the sexual relationship without feeling they are giving something that requires a bonding of the hearts. Later, they exchange intimacy as well as make love. It is different.
In your particular context, you need a love to be your lover. That is OK! Hurray for you! Stop having sex with anyone, including yourself, until you meet him. And stop making love to anyone including you, until you meet the lover you know is in love with you.
I know I said you won't find your answers here, but you will find them in the heart of a man. And I just told you something very much from the heart. Meanwhile get help, it is obviously a big issue for you and why not have a good therapist.
I do!!!
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