Re-Interpretation of Men's Need to Chase

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Registered: 03-03-2004
Re-Interpretation of Men's Need to Chase
21
Wed, 04-05-2006 - 10:11pm
I've been pondering this subject for awhile, making observations and such. It seems to me that both good and "bad" men appear similar on this subject. I'd been trying to reconcile the seeming contradictions, when it occurred to me that what men really need to do is wait. Some men make it a chase in that they push women to give them what they think they want before either one is really ready, destroying true intimacy. These are the men I define as players, whether they whine and plead or try to create a false sense of connection talking about the future, etc. to get sex. My observations of men is that once they've gotten sex even one time, the chase is over. Then they look over what they've gotten and decide whether they want it or not. Good men recognize this phenomenon in themselves and don't go around trifling with women's affections, breaking hearts. However, for some men, it's the name of the game. To some men, also, physical closeness is intimacy, period, which is a problem if you want a real relationship: emotional closeness, understanding, etc. I really think that we as women need to make sure we've got the man "hooked" before we give-up much beyond casual friendship, and then make sure it's someone worth having: that will be true, have lasting affection, etc. Before I happened upon the concept of their needing to wait, I thought men were capricious and arbitrary. I think this is why it's good not to push a man in a relationship nor let oneself be pushed. Any man who pushes doesn't have his own or the woman's best interests at heart. Just my two cents...
Avatar for memphisstars
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Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 04-06-2006 - 6:16pm

This is all very interesting, and you have got me thinking. I am just wondering if you have ever felt oxytocin yourself? It has always felt like way more than a rush to me; it is more of an attachment, an imprinting to a definite person that has a rather lasting effect.

I know you said it takes all four legs, (no pun intended), including sex, to make a relationship. But you also seem to say that if a man has great sex with you, an unshakable emotional bond ensues. How, then, can you explain that with both my Ex-BF and my Ex-husband of 28 years, that almost literally until the day they walked out on me we had wonderful sex? That part never diminished. It seems more to me that men can separate sex from emotion, and that explains why break-up sex is so prevalent.

Another question: I have had two guys that truly made love to me the first time we got intimate. Why didn't they just have sex to check it out first?

And also, if a guy just has plain old sex with you the first few times, you are saying it is possible that he will make love to you after he decides you are the one? Hmmmmm....have I been bailing out too soon?

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Registered: 03-18-2005
Thu, 04-06-2006 - 6:40pm

Too much chemical talk, LOL


Thanks.

 
 
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Registered: 04-04-2006
Thu, 04-06-2006 - 6:52pm

All interesting questions. I cannot generalize that way. The oxytocin thing is not what you are feeling and it wasn't what caused it. Emotional attachment can be something we are predisposed to because of other reasons as well as hormones. But whether we act on our intuitions and impulses is a human capacity called choice. You seemed to want to feel that way because you really wanted to love these men. Good. You must be very honest with yourself and your lovers. I would jump in front of a car for such a woman.

Yes, most men who are not superficial and who find their ideal physical partner will allow attachments to form so they can initiate intimacy on an emotional issue. The way to know the difference between having good sex and making love is to know what is in each other's heart. You seem to have been well satisfied, but your comments suggest you had never reached the moon and the stars. Just the same, isn't nice to know it can get even better?

Yes, men "compartmentalize" to deal with stress. But your observation is about what has happened in broken relationships. Talk to people who are married for 25 to 40 or more years and they will say that there is always sex because there is love.

Your example about the two guys, just means you can bring out the best in a man. I wish i could know you!!! They were having sex with you unless they both fell in love with you at first sight, but men who do that tend to stick around for years and years. So, again, you see how special and wonderful you are? Can you imagine how good the lovemaking will be if the sex is that good? And sex is only a part of lovemaking. What comes immediately before and long after, the talks, the laughing, the touching of souls, the looking into each others hearts, making a plan and then doing it so the other is not disappointed....

Oh well.... you are the lucky one aren't you!!!

Avatar for northwestwanderer
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Thu, 04-06-2006 - 6:54pm

I have absolutely NO morality issues with casual sex and I'm not using anything as an excuse. I know the difference between making love and having sex. By the way, this is something I *have* explored in counseling, thank you very much...what is actually most challenging is accepting that this is how I *am*, despite my rational and logical side telling me I "should" be different.

You may believe that "women" have casual sex easily but that is simply not true of a majority of women. That's a myth that the media loves to perpetuate. But ask any group of 10 women and at least 7-8 out of 10 of them will admit that they can't do it, no matter how much they may want to. They may *pretend* otherwise to the men in their lives, because it's not "cool" to not be able to have casual sex, but when push comes to shove, they know in their hearts they are kidding themselves.

But that's neither here nor there, because you still have not really answered my original questions. You made it clear in your initial post on this thread that it is your opinion that men are not willing to wait until they are in love to have sex...so according to you, I'm SOL if that's what I need to do. Why would you give me the advice you did, if that's true? It will never work, if what you're saying is true.

And why should the woman be the only one to bear the risk? Why would a man not be willing to meet a woman he liked halfway, and risk spending (gasp!) a whole month or two dating her before having sex with her? That's not enough time to fall in love, but it's enough time for many women to feel they know enough about the guy to take the risk. Actually, I know that there *are* many men who are willing to do this, but I'm just curious what your reasoning is that women should bear the entire risk.

Sheri

Avatar for northwestwanderer
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Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 04-06-2006 - 6:59pm

All the reading I've done on the topic indicates that men do not have the same biological reaction to the release of oxytocin that women do.

Sheri

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Registered: 03-03-2004
Thu, 04-06-2006 - 7:15pm
Your story is touching, fluffy. I'm very happy for you both. My feelings about relationships that start slowly is that they don't have the same jealousies, insecurities, etc. that comes from getting involved with someone a person really doesn't know. I really am happy for you. Relationships can be fun if both respect each other's boundaries. Best.
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Registered: 03-03-2004
Thu, 04-06-2006 - 7:34pm
Since you were blunt with me, I'll be blunt with you. I think your answer is an over-simplification. In addition, it sounded like you were saying a man looks for sex first, then a woman who won't betray him, etc. So basically for you it's o.k. to have loads of sex with people you despise otherwise. That sounds bass ackwards to me. I don't negotiate with my vagina, as you so delicately put it, to get men to have a relationship with me. Usually, I hadn't decided whether I even wanted a relationship with a particular man before he was pushing me into the sack. And for the record, giving in early didn't result in my getting dumped. Rather, my ex-hs. and bf of over a year used it as an excuse to degrade and belittle me. I know they have issues. So my position is, why should I give men sex before I know how they FEEL about me and what kind of man they are. If men have to know what my vagina is like before they decide whether they like me as a person or not and whether they'd consider a relationship with me, then I guess I'll just stay single. IMO, having sex creates a vacuum that can only be filled within the context of a loving, committed relationship where there's give and take. Men THINK they're getting off scott free because traditionally men have had the more powerful position in society. So they think they've duped the woman instead of the other way around, but the truth is, they're both duped. Just my opinion. By the way, I can see the man behind the pen.
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Registered: 03-18-2005
Thu, 04-06-2006 - 7:46pm
You mention the man's ego - another male friend wrote this:
 
 
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Registered: 04-04-2006
Thu, 04-06-2006 - 7:52pm

Sheri Dear,

It is not according to me! It is according to you! You are giving your poor interpretation of wht I said because you are personalizing a generality. Then you are pressing me to justify my statement because it doesn't fit you.

The glass slipper only fits the cinderellas!

You may be able to ask 10 women something and get an agreement. Men cannot. Do a study and you find that your argument fits middle eastern judeo-orthodox-christian morays,
but blind studies have proven that birth control and liberation have universalized women's sexual attitudes in the west. You are interpolating moral beliefs upon what you want to say seven out of ten women will agree to.

Today, even the younger samples of underage teen females shows a willingness and an eagerness to get sexually active in casual circumstances. The media message has been that this is actually self-defeating and emotionally harmful. You didn't even get that right! Well, print media is trash, or we wouldn't be using the internet right now, right?

Yes you do need to work these issues out. I said that men will usually try to score first and then decide whether to become involved. I told you, that because you do not accept that, you should abstain until you are sure your lover to be is really in love with you.

You agree you like good sex, I didn't say you did or didn't. I said you have moral issues, perhaps they are related to "PRE-MARITAL" sex. Oooo, I can't believe I actually said it. Wash my mouth out with soap!!! You read "The Rules", you bought in and now you want us to all take their advice seriously.

Risk?? Are we talking safe sex here or emotional risk. Don't you think we risk anything? When we have sex with you, are we going to be accused of rape if we don't call you again soon? Are we going to get some STD even though we used precautions. Are we going to call back and be shot down. For every one of you there are three who do get called back and they start playing games, so let's be realistic OK?

Men want sex first. You must be a beauty, you seem to get a lot of takers. It is meant to be a compliment. If you are as good a performer as you imply, then it must be a real kick in the head when these men don't unwind and start intimating. OK? Why not? Do you telegraph that now that you have slept with them you expect a commitment. After the first lay???? Give me a break! It ain't gonna happen unless he's got maternal problems. If he does, good luck!

Men want sex first! We don't always get it. But we do find women we want to have sex with again and again. And that is how we find women who we can become intimate with, talk to, share our deepest tthings we don't tell our male friends and would die if they ever knew!!!! That is not sex, that is intimacy. That is trust. That is how we make love! It is jsu that we need to have sex be an integral part of the process.

Why? Because we know your sexuality is an intimacy that you will share. So, you give sex, and get intimacy. A man gets sex that he knows is really your intimacy, and he gives more sex, begins intimacy, risks trust and promises fidelity.

But YOUI!!!! Oh noooooo! You want it all in return for your first few sexual experiences. All I can say is, a thinking dog is a good dog. We don't give our loyalty like canines. You feed them, they love you. Mendogs, you have to be true to us, we have to learn to trust you, and once we do, we don't want to find out the real you is some other character and that it was all about the ring thing, and getting us to commit.

Sheri, don't say this isn't you. Or at least, don't expect anyone to believe you. As nice and beautiful as you are, you are not willing to see that you need to husband a man before he'll commit. Just "giving in and RISKING going all the way" and maybe this one will stick around... Sorry, it isn't the world we live in anymore.

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Registered: 03-03-2004
Thu, 04-06-2006 - 7:56pm
I posted this thread originally because I'd read that the more available a woman is to a man, the less he wants her. I've found this to be true, not just concerning sex, but in general. So I've been trying to determine why this is, because not all men are players. There are some genuinely nice guys out there that while they don't want a woman to play games, they don't necessarily want to know she's theirs for the taking, either. I agree that a lot of men will take sex when it's offered to them, whether they like the woman or not. Some men pursue endlessly then drop. I think those men are just proof that men need to wait. This is the point I was trying to make. Men aren't necessarily looking for a conquest, it just takes time for them to learn to value and appreciate what they might have. We all appreciate things more when we have to wait for them, invest in them, hope for them, etc. This is why I think sex early is a bad idea. If a guy doesn't have to wait for it, it's much easier for him to dismiss it and the woman as of little moment. By the way, I don't think too many first time sexual encounters are earth shaking. I don't think that's what keeps people coming back, generally. It takes time for people to learn each others idiosyncrasies, likes and dislikes, etc., whether in bed or other. I agree that the sexual relationship is just one part of the overall relationship, and it takes time and patience for people to get in sync with each other usually. I just don't understand the way some people seem to think these days. If one has a partner they really love, they do so in sickness and in health, whether the sex is good or bad at that moment. This deep level of commitment and love cannot be determined by jumping into the sack together. What ever happened to loving someone else for who they are, instead of just what they can do for me? Just my two cents, again.