Are There More Quality Women Then Men?

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-15-2006
Are There More Quality Women Then Men?
47
Wed, 01-17-2007 - 11:33am
I’m just wondering if anyone else feels this way, or is it just the point of view of a slightly jaded, single, 32 year old woman (me) who has yet to find a good catch. Does it seem like, in general, there are a lot more quality women out there than men, or is this a misconception? It’s just that I seem to know so many wonderful women, who have a good head on their shoulders, enjoy life, smart, beautiful, funny, great senses of humor, independent…..and all alone. Also, I always thought the close friends I had for most of my young adult life, would never in a million years settle for less than what they want in a man, yet a lot of them have. Not only that….as soon as a man came into the picture, they just basically disappeared out of my life. Hardly ever do I get a phone call or any attempt to make plans from them anymore, ever since they got into these relationships. I can’t help but be a little offended, because they had a great friend in me….I’m a cool, chic! I’m lots of fun, and love to do things, enjoy life. Yet these friends have chosen to be with drunks, unemployed or underemployed men, emotionally abusive, and in one case, and ex-con with baby mama drama, instead of just having fun and staying single, cause it seems to them that any man is better than none at all. I guess I just don’t get it! Any thoughts on this, or similar experiences? Do you think there is a shortage of quality men? Do you think there are a lot of women out there who think it’s much better to have just any man and say they are in a relationship, rather than to wait for a quality one, who may or may not ever appear?
iVillage Member
Registered: 08-30-1999
Thu, 01-18-2007 - 11:00pm

“I hope you were saying this tongue in cheek b/c there's nothing wrong with wanting qualities other than pure biological ones.”

What? How did I imply that “there's nothing wrong with wanting qualities other than pure biological ones.” ? That’s the opposite of what I said. I think most people are somewhat desirable; it’s the original poster who has high standards that most men, apparently, can’t reach.

I realize that in many ways it is harder to pair up these days compared to the past. But my question remains: has the “quality” of people (or men) declined? I doubt you make a case that quality has declined by any objective measure. It’s pickiness that become epidemic.

Avatar for cl_shywon
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Registered: 03-20-2003
Thu, 01-18-2007 - 11:11pm

Most guys aren’t very handsome or sharp dressers. Most aren’t cool, popular or socially fluent. Most guys don’t make a ton of money. Most guys have a hard time being charming and confident around women. Most guys don’t know the right words to say or the right time to say them or the right tone of voice to say them. Most don’t have that bad-boy edge to them.


So WHY should we date you if you're not going to make the effort?

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-01-2004
Fri, 01-19-2007 - 12:45am

I agree with some of your points, but I think there are both men and women who have standards that are too high and somewhat shallow. You can't just label women as looking for this perfect guy, I have NEVER dated a perfect man and a lot of the things you mentioned women expecting in a man are not characteristics of the guys I've dated or have been interested in and are things I don't care about.

I have many wonderful guy friends but as I posted in another thread, I always find myself being on that other end, the girl that would be GREAT for them if given the chance to be seen beyond a friend. BUT, a lot of them tend to be drawn to the "challenging" women and for the most part, the drama queens and basketcases. Then they will complain to me and tell me how they want a normal girl and my presence beyond being a friend seems to elude them still. So, both women and men do that. They are still my friends and I love them but their choices in women leave me scratching my head a lot of times. I am also attractive, successful, mentally stable, funny etc. and I still have difficulty (along with many of my girlfriends) so it's not as easy for women as you might think. Plus, just because you are a hot woman and get some guy's attention doesn't mean he wants to date you, he may just want sex.

I rarely go for the "hot" guy. Usually when I like someone he is rather average looking by most standards but there is just that something that sparks my interest. My latest crush is someone I am trying to get to know after admiring from afar and as far as I can tell he is not socially fluent, I have no idea how much money he makes and he actually isn't that great of a dresser (haha) and he's actually a little bit dorky in some ways ;-). What I do know about him is that he is cute and has a good personality and I'm trying to get to know more about him. I also approached him initially but I'm not going to keep approaching him, a man needs to pursue a little bit, otherwise as another poster said, the woman wonders how into her the guy really is if he can't make the effort. He has approached me a little bit but I'm not sure what level of interest he has, so like you said if it's because a guy is shy etc. that he hasn't asked the woman out, she might have given him the chance but she just assumes he isn't interested romantically if he isn't making it known. Women can't read minds and we can't be expected to pursue a guy if he doesn't reciprocate on at least an even level.

I think there are quality men out there and quality women, there are also people who will just keep making the same bad decisions in relationships but that doesn't mean that is what most women or men think.

Avatar for floridagirl52
iVillage Member
Registered: 10-16-2006
Fri, 01-19-2007 - 6:55am

Hi Sky,

Very good question and one I have pondered. I hate to say it, but I have to agree with you. It really DOES seem like there are more quality women than men. I have often wondered if this were just a skewed perception or really true.

As the old lady on this board (I'm 52), finding available men after age 35 became WAY harder. And you are so right about your hooked up friends dumping you. This has happened to me over and over again. It's like, "What am I? Chopped liver?" Don't they miss me? :)

I've long held a theory that men who are desirable as partners (emotionally healthy) hooked up with a great woman in their 20s. They're still married to that woman. I feel that woman are far more inclined to seek therapy and actually change...sorry, but I think it's true. So, men my age who are undesirable and not emotionally healthy were always that way and have no inclination to change...and this is probably why they are single. And I doubt they care either.

I also don't think there is the pressure on men to marry, especially because there's no biological limitation on them to have children.

And frankly, men are raised to believe that the world is their oyster. Even in 2007, I still think women are not as supported by our society, and I am speaking as a successful, intelligent woman...I'm not grinding my ax here.

And yes, I have watched in horror as some friends have made abyssmal choices in men. I attribute that to low self esteem on their part.

I for one would much rather be alone than with a jerk. I say, keep your heart open to a good relationship. Staying in a bad relationship keeps your heart unavailable, and that includes pining for an unnecessarily long time about a lost love.

So, what to do? Like another poster, I prefer to believe that there are plenty of desirable men out there...maybe not as many as I'd like, but I know they are out there and I think one day our paths will cross.

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-02-2006
Fri, 01-19-2007 - 9:49am

<>


I don't think that the quality of people in general has declined, what has declined is a woman's NEED to get married for financial stability and to have children.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 07-30-2004
Fri, 01-19-2007 - 11:25am

>How misanthropic - the attitude that most people are inferior or aren't quality enough for mating/dating. In an earlier era, almost everyone married. How did this happen? Were people more quality back then?<

>People aren't as bad as you apparently feel. That includes women and men.<

Misanthropic or not, from the perspective of someone with many disireable traits ("quality"), most people are not equally disireable. It's called a "league". If a person has certain standards that they themselves meet, than it is not unreasonable for them to look for those qualities in a life partner. The term "quality" obviously offends you. Although it is a fair reflection of the way most people act and feel about this issue, maybe you should ask posters to use an alternate term such as "sexually and socially disireable from the perspective of a potential romantic partner".

>In an earlier era, almost everyone married. How did this happen? Were people more quality back then?<

People married because the social structure and ecological limitations demanded it for those who wanted children (most people). I doubt that they were happier or more fulfilled. A lot of people settled for a life of misery and abuse. Lets all go back to those times.

Edited to add: I am not claiming as my own the perspective of someone with many disireable traits.




Edited 1/19/2007 11:39 am ET by phatgenes
iVillage Member
Registered: 07-30-2004
Fri, 01-19-2007 - 11:37am

>there's nothing wrong with wanting qualities other than pure biological ones. That's what disntinguish human fr animals. I just thought of an interesting analogy between men and animals b/c men don't tend to look for the whole package as much as women. Good looks and youth are at the top of the list b/c those are the only important factors in the perpetuation of the spieces. You want the best looking, most healthy, vigorous appearing individual to increase the chance of having strong offsprings. Big boobs and nice hair are not only good to look at and touch but also means more milk and nutrition and warmth.<

It is a misconception that only "physical" characteristics are biological. Inteligence and personality traits are highly heritable. When women select men on the basis of personality traits they are just as biologically driven as the man looking at your boobs. A "good personality" generally indicates a man who will be faithful, a good father, productive and able to provide, and will be able to pass on good social abilities to the offspring through genes and through social learning. When women want these characteristics it is because they have been selected to do so because it maximizes their own reproductive success. Also, humans are animals.

As an aside, larger breasts do not indicate increased ablilty to produce milk except as one of many indicators of body fat reserves that are important for fertility and lactation. Some biologists believe that women's breasts are enlarged and filled out even when not lactating as a sexual signal. Some believe that this evolved in order to present similar signals as the buttocks after humans began to walk upright.

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-30-1999
Fri, 01-19-2007 - 2:17pm

phatgenes suggest the concept of "leagues". Maybe that's a good idea. Sometime in late adolescence, each person can be assigned a league. This is where they fall in terms of "quality". Each person is made to understand that he or she dates within his or her league. Don't waste your time pursing someone outside your league, and you won't be bothered by the riff-raff from lower leagues. Online services like Match.com would segregate people by league. If you start making a lot more money or somehow become more interesting or attractive, you can more to a higher league. Others will move to a lower league to make room for you.

Doesn't this all sound ridiculous? But that seems to be a concept that people here would go for.

BTW, the median income for males is higher than it is for females in the United States, and a higher percentage of men have bachelor's degrees, per Census data (http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/education/001863.html) This isn't just because of sexism in times past. Among people in their 20s today, more men than women have degrees. By this measure, anyway, men are higher "quality" than women.

Avatar for cfk_3
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-14-1999
Fri, 01-19-2007 - 3:58pm

I have a girlfriend who mourned this coke-head who thankfully dumped her for another chick. I think she still secretly pines for him. I never got the attraction. She talked about having babies with this loser. He's shacked up with a girl now who has two kids from two previous relationships which, I have no qualms with except, I do not think that he is contributing to the household. Essentially, I think he's an opportunist. I don't know it for a fact, but if he's not contributing, then he's clearly taking advantage of this woman. He's just a bum. Yeah, he was quasi decent looking and had wit, charm, but the trade off? No thank you!

There ARE desperate women out there and it's a shame. I have been "dumped" by so many female friends as a result of them finding a man, it's ridiculous. Some of them stick around until the kids start popping out, then it just seems we don't have much left in common. I don't get that though because my sister is married and has two children and we get along famously? Anyway, I wish there were more single thirty-somethings out there. I'm sure they exist, it's just rare that I get an opportunity to befriend any of them ; )




Edited 1/19/2007 4:30 pm ET by cfk_3
Avatar for cfk_3
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-14-1999
Fri, 01-19-2007 - 4:09pm

"Men hold their standards lower than women do? Sorry, I couldn't help but laugh out loud at this. In my experience at least, even men who are complete and total losers, who have nothing to bring to the table, still sometimes expect to have a beautiful, young supermodel on their arms."

- - I agree!