Come On...It's the 21st Century!!!

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Come On...It's the 21st Century!!!
89
Thu, 10-30-2003 - 6:37pm
So OK...I haven't been posting here for long...but a recient off the topic debate sparked my interest...some woment here seem convinced that it is completely improper for a woman to ask a man out. That if a man truly is intrested he will be a true gentleman and make all the moves and under no circumstance should you accept a last minute date. COME ON...LADIES!!!! If we all waited in our towers until our knight rode up on his trusty steed colors flying ready to rescue us...we would all die stranded in those very small tourets. I'm not saying that we need to take away a man's masculinity, but asking for phone numbers, asking men out, initiating sex...these are all emotionally healthy practices and common place here in America in the 21st century. If a woman is equal to a man in the workplace, in the voting booth, and in every aspect of life, why not in the realm of relationships and dating? It makes no sense to me why some women feel that the man should be responsible for all aspects of persuing a relationship. In a way it seems quite hipocritical. Is it that these women are afraid if rejection, or are too lazy to do the persuing, or do they enjoying playing the damsel in distress. Now I am a Southern woman and my Momma always told me to go after what I wanted. So if there is a Man I wan I tell him...I don't sit on the side line hoping he notices me, then hoping that he askes me out. I think that stratigy leaves you sitting at home on a Saturday night. So...ladies, what do you think? Should we all just be sitting at home waiting for the phone to ring or should we be out with friends having a good time and if a cute guy catches our eye should we strike up a conversation and see where it goes??? Let me know!

Heather

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iVillage Member
Registered: 08-07-2003
Thu, 10-30-2003 - 7:33pm
Hi Heather,

I can't speak for others, but here's my interpretation of the posts in the earlier thread - I didn't see anyone suggest that it is *improper* for a woman to ask a man out - I think a few women just said that they had had very little success in establishing a relationship when they pursued men. In other words, I don't think anyone said it's *wrong* to pursue a man, just that they haven't had success in doing so.

I personally have never asked a man out, and I get plenty of dates and currently have a bf. It works for me, and my bf loves being the one to do most of the pursuing - even after three months, he still calls me a lot more than I call him. My advice is to go with what works for you. If you have had success asking men out - then do it, by all means!

ginger

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 10-30-2003 - 9:20pm
Well, there's a slight difference from seeing a hottie in a bar, or at church, or in the mall and "striking up a conversation in hopes of him asking for your number or a date."

And you walking up and saying "I'd love to get to know you better, are you free on Friday evening to go to dinner and to the museum exhibit." And you being prepared to pick him up, pay for it....and perhaps hear "Thanks, but no thanks."

I have no problem asking men out..if I didn't, I'd NEVER get a date...but I'm also am realistic enough to realize that a "no, I'm not interested" is not him saying "you're uninteresting, unattractive, undesirable, unappealing, unintelligent, or lacking in charm"..it's him saying he is not interested in getting to find out if I am any of those things.

Erin

quickblade14@hotmail.com

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 10-30-2003 - 9:24pm
I think it is fine to ask a man out if you are looking just to date around or have a fling. I never think it is improper to ask a man out or pursue a man - it's not about propriety just about purpose - if your purpose is a long term relationship and/or marriage then I believe in most cases it is best to let the man do most of - not all of, but most of - the pursuing in the beginning of the relationship where the couple has more of an equal balance once you are exclusive and dating for at least a month or so - nothing about proper or improper just about effectiveness. I think it is a huge mistake to equate equality in the workplace with romantically-based interactions between men and women - to me it is apples and oranges and I have seen this proven in my life and in my friends' lives time and time again. I am not looking for a white knight and am shocked when a woman thinks that a man calling her in advance for a proper date and making the effort for a special or unique or just plain nice or comfy evening is a white knight - to that woman I say - you must have settled for bad/mediocre treatment for so long - that is just normal acceptable behavior to me - of course I show my appreciation but I don't fall all over a man who treats me that way the same way I don't expect him to fall all over me because I am kind, compassionate, and act in a sincerely appreciative way. We each should expect that treatment and not be shocked when we get it.

I never wait around for a man - I have an active social life and am on the internet dating sites - I am friendly and open and approachable and constantly crack people up - but when it comes to the asking that is his job. I think it is foolish for women to think a man is just going to appear - so I say show up at everything that interests you, tell everyone you're single and looking, get out there - that has nothing to do with pursuing men and asking them out.

I think initiating sex for me - is great - but I only have sex in the context of a loving committed relationship so by that time of course I feel comfortable and open enough to initiate. If I saw any examples of happy, loving, fulfilling respectful long term relationships/marriages where the woman did most of the pursuing in the beginning I might see things differently - but I don't and it makes sense to me - in a romantic relationship, men typically enjoy being the pursuers especially in the beginning - I have several examples of men who tried to call last minute - I say very nicely and graciously "I'm sorry, I would love to see you but I'm busy" I never tell him he has to call me in advance - I would never tell a man what to do in that case- typically, the man who is truly interested - he might find some other women to be his last minute women but if he is truly interested, I hear from him soon after and he is more than happy to make advance plans - just like he is happy to get a project done on time or to make plans with a close friend in advance. Even the men who never ever make advance plans - if they are truly interested they figure out on their own - that to see me they need to call in advance And even though I am no model or rocket scientist - they do. It's happened many times.

The other thing is - I don't expect equality in a romantic relationship (as I do in the workplace)- I expect respect, and trust and love - but I don't keep a scorecard. When i become exclusive with a man - after we've been dating a month or two or three - I am often the one coming up with a plan, or treating, or doing something that is giving. In the beginning, I give of myself - my ear, my attention, my interest, my appreciativeness - but I let him have the pleasure of calling me most of the time and asking me out most of the time- I've never heard a complaint and I've never had a relationship end or be strained because of my unspoken expectations - I have seen many relationships end where the women did most of the pursuing and those are typically the women who end up generalizing about men in a negative way and male-bashing. I don't do that because on the whole, if a man is going to treat me improperly, maybe we'll have two dates - no real scars there - and I've had only one or two experiences of a man treating me badly once we're exclusive. My approach typically weeds out the jerky or abusive ones early - because to them I'm too much work, of course. Thank goodness for that!

As far as being without an exclusive relationship at age 37 - well, I just got out of one in mid-august and have been dating up a storm - I would prefer to be in an exclusive relationship leading to marriage - of course - but I feel very hopeful and full of positive energy about it- I know it will happen and I know this because of my positive past experiences and self image. So - no - not improper at all to be the initiator in the beginning- just a little foolish and misguided and short sighted, in my humble opinion.


Edited 10/30/2003 10:26:51 PM ET by deena33

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-26-2003
Thu, 10-30-2003 - 9:29pm
I completely agree with you Heather...women should be asking men out...it is ok. We have all been presented with this idea of the 50's that men run our lives and in a certain respect, it is their responsibility to make the first move...give me a break. Its like at dances in the 50's. Women would sit on side lines waiting to be asked to dance by a guy. I think that is just ridiculous. Who ever said that women can't make a first move and if they do, its not gonna work out. Give me a break!! I say women need to be empowered and this is one thing that lets us take that step. So more power to all women who choose this route of asking guys out!!

Heather
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-26-2003
Thu, 10-30-2003 - 9:30pm
Improper?? wow...get with the times...seriously.
Avatar for bluebird1234
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-21-2003
Thu, 10-30-2003 - 10:15pm
It may be the 21st century, but in my experience, asking out a guy before he makes the first move never worked out for me. I want to know someone is truly interested in me, and will thereby go out of their way to ask me out first. Once that happens, I have no problem of reciprocating. And I don't sit around waiting for a man to ask me out either, I continually work on making new friends, and most of my weekends are full doing one thing our another, parties, clubs, sporting events - I also do some on-line mingling, and tried the speed dating thing. I will put myself out there doing everything I enjoy, and am willing to let my friends fix me up, but I will still wait for the guy to make the first move in asking me out that first time. That's just the way I feel about it, even though I think its perfectly fine for women to ask guys out. Its just not me.
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-26-2003
Thu, 10-30-2003 - 10:24pm
maybe the guy wants to know if you are TRULY interested in him before he reciprocates the feelings. Its a double standard and women need to get over their issues.
Avatar for northwestwanderer
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 10-30-2003 - 11:07pm

I didn't say that it's not proper; I said it doesn't work, because a guy who's truly interested and available and who doesn't have emotional issues will ask someone out

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Thu, 10-30-2003 - 11:33pm
OK...so here is my experience...my 1st dating experience I persued heavily...lots of flirting, hint droping, even a sad story of how I was up for Homecoming Court and had no date. He asked me out and the relationship lasted for a year. (Subsequently we had a 8 year relationship and were maried for 4 years). Another guy I met at a party-one of the first College parties I went to-and was totally intrested in him, so I left him my number and told him to call me when they had their next party. He called 2 days later. We were together for 9 months. Another guy-a police man-I met through a friend. There was immediate attraction! However, it was complicated with the politics in the circle of friends they were in...so the first night I met him I sliped him my number. He called the next day...it was one of the most amazing relationships of my life!!! Nothing that could ever be long term...but it was incredable! It lasted for 8 months and I learned more about myself than I ever could have imagined. It was total Fireworks! Anyway...I guess what I am saying is that you never know who your "Mr. Right" will be. To say that the only person you feel you can have a long term substantial relationship with, is someone who persues you seems pretty close minded. I truly believe that we create our own destinys and if you feel that pitter pat in your heat or your stomach goes flip flop and you do nothing about it you might have missed one of the best oppertunities of your life. And I'm not willing to look back at my life and wonder what could have been.

Heather
Avatar for northwestwanderer
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 10-30-2003 - 11:42pm

Hmm...in all those situations, you indicated your interest and he followed up by asking you out.

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