Have we "ruined things" for men?

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-21-2005
Have we "ruined things" for men?
87
Tue, 08-08-2006 - 11:27am

I was reading Shy's response to one of rebainmi's posts about men being big babies, scared of rejection, even when they know a woman will say yes.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 01-03-2006
I love what you said and how you said it. I couldn't agree more and I'm glad to see someone with a voice of reason and truth. Excellent post.
Avatar for cl_shywon
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-20-2003

What about the girls that aren't throwing themselves at him?

Avatar for cl_shywon
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-20-2003

Let's try to discuss instead of attack, shall we?


Men haven’t evolved the way women have??? That is utter BS!!


Women wanted equality, you got equality! We did evolve with you…, as you asked. We now treat you like equals, why do you not treat us the same way? Instead of saying “grow a set and go out and make your move on women who you are attracted to” why not put in your 50 percent? If women and men are really equal why not take your half of the dating ritual???


This is what so many men don't understand.

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-19-2005

You're right Shywon..., these are only opinions and that of my experiences and those of my close friends..., and this too biases us because friends always mirror us to some point.

But I'll certainly disagree that women being more successful at work has had any impact on men..., at least not me. I can say I've dated scrub women as well as very powerful women and married one or two also. I have not felt different about either or...., so business has nothing to do with it in my eyes.

And a lot has been researched about women in business too.., for instance they will either date horizontally or up..., and this has nothing to do with sexual positions. Female CEO's have admitted their dating pool is basically nonexistant since most men at those levels are already married or taken. Most women will not date below their income and this is one reason the dating arena has changed with your advance..., I heard one woman say that pool boys were for flings not relationships....,

And I definitely disagree that single women are happier than single men..., I have heard many single women on the edge from being alone so long and seeing their childbearing years slip by..., not to mention the pressure society puts on you..., us men don't feel that.

Definitely men are better suited to live decade after decade without a partner. I'd like to see a pole on that one here at iVilliage...., I'm not so sure the women would side with you.

Adrastos

Avatar for cl_shywon
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-20-2003

I can understand why women with high-powered positions typically don't date "down."

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-19-2005

Sorry Shywon,
I was at work and finding it hard to concentrate. I had a few more thoughts I wanted to share as it seems we are always at odds with each other when I post…., you accuse me of not listening to what you say and that I should read closer…., and I can’t follow your logic and don’t understand your meaning…,

…, we sound like an old married couple, huh?

The original poster’s brother blamed women for making dating a struggle…, and I agreed. You blamed men not having enough balls and that women were more successful and didn’t need them as much, so this caused the poor old lazy bastard to be taken aback. I blamed women’s attitudes and the hoops we had to jump through to just get to know her…,

…, we then both agreed that these were just opinions and couldn’t speak for our sex completely.

Now for The Real World Seattle…., 5 men: Ken (yours truly), Brad, Mike, Gary, and Jim…, all in our 40’s, all reasonably normal looking, all successful in our careers, all have children, and all (except one) have been married more than once. Two are in management and the others blue collar. All have agreed dating is a struggle and not worth the rewards. All agree women have made it harder than it need be. All have chose to follow their own pursuits and leave the silly dating world behind.

The chances that we all don’t have a set or are in someway stymied by your power and careers is very slim. The chances that we feel the same way as the posters brother does and that somehow we make a correlation to women as the source of that struggle is indeed striking.

Ok…, where does that leave us…., I guess you could chalk it up to 5 crazy guys in Seattle…, but we are good guys…, the kind everyone wonders why we aren’t hooked up…,

So imagine this…, there are more groups of guys like us, not just in the Northwest but all over the country. Men who want to get married and have lasting and purposeful relationships…, but we have just given up on dating…, we have better things to do. Could this be possible…, could men be feeling like it just isn’t worth it???

And what if it were true?…, then the actual pool of men out there would simply be looking to get laid, or to have temporary sexual relationships with no future…, because as you said women are literally throwing themselves at them. What you would find is a lot of women being frustrated by men not willing to invest too much into relationships and all kinds of strange actions…., you would find women looking for long-term commitment but ending up in a string of short lived ones.

Yeah…, I’m probably living in fantasyland and have no idea what I’m talking about. I’m sure I have no grasp on what is happening with my fellow man. And I am horribly heartbroken living alone with no woman to ask me why I spent the last 3 weeks and $3000 painting my boat in dry-dock.

If I were a single woman I would be very worried if in fact you have ruined it.

Adrastos

Oh yeah…, P.S…, this is not a personal attack…, I have only the utmost respect for you.

Avatar for cl_shywon
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-20-2003
Wed, 08-09-2006 - 10:11pm

I never used the term "poor old lazy bastard."

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-19-2005
Wed, 08-09-2006 - 10:30pm

Ok…, you got me on that one Shywon…, deep down inside I’m not ready to give up, and I still hold onto a kernel of hope that somewhere out there a woman may exist to compliment me and I her.

But you are also right that I choose not to play the stupid game and therefore can only rant about it once in a while. It’s not misogyny…, for I have always cared for the women in my life and the special things they brought to a relationship…, even now, just looking around I remember a dried flower wreath my love made and affixed over the mantle…, my mantle now looks bare and cold…, empty. She made a house a home…,

Still it doesn’t change the fact that I won’t date and the guys that are out there willing to date don’t want lasting relationships…,

…, that’s my read on the situation and I’m sticking to it. But thank you…, because sometimes you can be harsh yet this time I sensed maybe a little understanding.

Adrastos

Oh yeah…, I wasn’t trying to be dramatic…, that’s just the way I write.

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-17-2004

Liyahberry,

Damn those metrosexuals! I like macho men who are straightforward, don't play games and make their feelings known. I don't mind making the first move and showing interest but I believe the man should make the second move and lead the relationship. I feel like my life is such a paradox. I have men who stare at me and are practically drooling when I walk past but never speak to me. However, if I smile or say hello to them, they seem to lose interest and I lose my value. In my experience if a man wants to ask you out, they will move heaven and earth to do so. I'm not interested in a man who has one foot in and one foot out of the relationship. I want him to know what he wants and what he wants is me. Women make too many excuses for men. I have known a lot of shy guys but if they want to ask you out, they will. Somehow on the ivillage board, shy seems to be interchangeable for men who are just simply rude, inconsiderate and disinterested. It seems that some women are so desperate for any sort of attention that they are happy to go through the motions of dating a man even though the signs clearly say that it's not going to work out and like to live in their denial so they can have a bit of excitement in their otherwise dull lives. I prefer to end relationships quickly and leave myself open for men I'm more compatible with. I've always know from the first date whether the man was relationship material or not and the men I date know how to treat women properly from the start without any hesitation. From my experience any man who says they want a woman to be equal and initiate contact, usually just wants her to make all the effort and often it's more like 70/30 with the woman making most of the work.

Feisty

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-27-2004
"I have men who stare at me and are practically drooling when I walk past but never speak to me. However, if I smile or say hello to them, they seem to lose interest and I lose my value. In my experience if a man wants to ask you out, they will move heaven and earth to do so. "
Once again, Feisty, we are <>. It's the God honest truth. I don't get that sometimes with some men. There was one guy who I liked and he was always staring and saying hello and making chit chat and I'd do the same. One day I saw him first and I gave him a big smile and said hello. How are you? His reaction was not the same. He just said a mere quiet hello and turned around very quickly and walked off. Huh? Okay. His choice. But yet don't tell me that I was playing games. They tell women to make it easy for the guy by saying hello and making eye contact and engaging in small conversation, but when you do that, it feels like that's too much. I'm just convinced that men don't know what they want and they blame women for that.
I don't play games. If I like you, sure I'll make my interest known. But if I see you being wishy washy and acting like oh I think I can do a little better than her or I'm not sure if I want it that badly, heck I'm gone and don't look for me again.
But yes, I agree with you 100%

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