Have we "ruined things" for men?
Find a Conversation
Have we "ruined things" for men?
| Tue, 08-08-2006 - 11:27am |
I was reading Shy's response to one of rebainmi's posts about men being big babies, scared of rejection, even when they know a woman will say yes.

Pages
If you're going to take my post and twist it around, then I dont see the point in responding.
But to amuse myself I suppose, I'll only respond to one point you made:
So you agree with Fiesty that the men I talked with and their responces don't mean a thing???
I dont believe I said that and that isnt the points in her posts I am in agreement. I also did not say that the "10" men and their responses you polled are without merit. But again, I could find 10 men to say the opposite. I am simply in agreement with her regarding what makes a "man's man." You assume she wants a doormat (as you assume other 'princess women' want doormats for that matter) and I dont see it that way. My boyfriend is a "mans man" as she defines it and he treats me like a queen. But he isnt a doormat. As a strong, independent woman, it would turn me right off if he was a doormat. Many of my male friends have been known to do those things as well, and I would never say that they are pussified. They would also argue that if they treat their girlfriends/wives well enough, she does the same.
Also go back and read post #28 and you should see that I do think women have too high expectations *sometimes.* But those are women that go beyond the norm. Most women just want a man that is respectful, loyal, honest and attentive to her needs. Why is that so hard for *some* men to do? Do you honestly think that being the best man you can be for your woman is pussified??
Adrastos,
First of all, please don't refer to me as a 'chick'. I think it's a disrespectful term and for everyone who cannot bothered to read the 80 or so posts before this one, I never said you were screwed up.
I'm not sure how long you have been on this board but The Single Life is not full of man haters and you don't need to come here and defend yourself. We are not attacking men. The whole premise of this thread and even the heading of this thread was to take accountability and responsibility and look at how women's actions and how our behaviour could have been contributing to how men behave. Several posts ago and I always say it, for every man who is a bastard, there are nine women who have readily accepted their behaviour. The man I described is not a doormat but it seems to me that the men I have met lately are expecting me to be one and that is not going to happen, not in my lifetime. I have no wish to be put on a pedestal, worshipped or to walk all over a man and alternatively neither do I want a man who wants to be pursued or for a woman to make most of the effort in the relationship. From my own experience and from what I have read on the posts on the board regardless of whether it is in Australia or America, when a man asks for equality and wants a woman to ask him out, it seems that the balance of the relationship is 30/70 with the woman making most of the effort.
What it comes down to is that men do not know what they want. You say you want a woman to be equal but I guarantee if you found the woman you described, you would not treat her with respect, you would leave her and you would pursue a woman more like me. Men are always giving women mixed messages and what a man says and what he actually wants is two different things. There are women out there who will take advantage of a man who treats her well but you need to filter out the bad and leave the good. For every story that you have to tell about a woman treating you badly, there are ten stories here from women about men. You need to get over it, dust yourself off and pick yourself off the ground just like the strong, independent women of this board.
I don't know why it is so important for you for others to validate your opinion. If you think you're are right, then it doesn't matter what we think. Pat yourself on the back for educating the women of the Single Life and move on.
Feisty
Edited 8/14/2006 9:31 pm ET by feisty01
Fiesty...,
This exemplifies the difference of opinions men and women have..., you seek to relate to your emotions..., I seek to find logic and explain that theory.
The original poster said that her brother felt women made dating a struggle..., which I for one agree with and feel is not worth the effort anymore.
I said one of the reasons it wasn't worth the effort was a Princess Attitude..., you made statements that I thought re-enforced my post.
I tried to defend myself by asking other men to assure I was not biased..., our viewpoints were dismissed, so I attempted to add other viewpoints unassociated with my peers.
I do not see where I've gone wrong except to disagree with you. I have more evidence of argument against what we are discussing but you seem bent on dismissing anything I say..., simply because I disagree with you.
Adrastos
Adrastos,
I don't wish to be rude but I've already said a few posts ago that we need to agree to disagree. That is all I have to say to you on this matter.
Feisty
Liyahberry,
No, I am not that way inclined either and I don't intend to be. I have just stopped talking to a male friend recently because he has been making suggestive comments to me about being sexually aggressive. He is 40+ but sleeps around with 21 year olds. He suggested we go on holidays under the guise of finding investment properties and thought it was acceptable that we slept in the same bed. He suggested this because he wanted to save us money but twin beds in a hotel room are as much as a queen sized bed. He could not understand why I made an issue out of it. A few weeks later (last week), I said I was thinking of living alone and he said that I could have some privacy and bring a boy or two home. I was disgusted. I tried to explain to him that I was upset and he said to me that I was a prude and he spoke to all his women friends in that manner. It is women like that that makes it harder for women like you and I to demand respect from men. After putting up with his behaviour for several years, I finally said to him that if he couldn't respect and accept the person that I was, that I didn't want to speak to him again. I can't even look him in the eye. I've lost all respect for him. I have an interview tomorrow and another male friend who I met through this same friend suggested that I wear a low cut top to my interview. He was very serious and I couldn't believe my ears. What is wrong with people these days?
I work for a publishing company in Australia and my friend works at a men's magazine. She told me that one of her female colleagues who is 25 has slept with over 30 men, sleeps around and had a random man sleep over in her bed last night from a work function. It was Monday night here for goodness sakes! She said at first she felt cheap but now she feels empowered so there is a real life example of the sexually aggressive women that is ruining it for the rest of us.
Feisty
But again, like we both said. You cannot blame it totally on the men as women have their part in it as well. It's how much we allow and the sad part is he bounces off of one with his rudeness and crassness to the next one and some woman will find that charming and alluring.
I remember talking with a very good looking guy. He was attracted to me and vice versa. We had just met but we exchanged numbers just to talk and see what's what.
By I guess the third conversation, I was so turned off by him as he started asking me if I thought about enhancing my breasts to Pamela Anderson's size, asking me all sorts of personal questions about my private anatomy that I just got turned off and I told him that that was personal and it was not his business to ask me that. So he tries to come back harder and say well I guess I'm talking to a little child and not a woman. I told him no, you're talking to a lady and that's none of your business. It was crazy. He kept calling/emailing me and I just changed my number and email address to get rid of him. Who did he think he was or I was for that matter? But the fact of the matter was I guess he had been used to talking with other women that way and them finding him appealing, just felt that that was exciting for him to ask such personal questions like that. I don't know but I do think we as women help contribute to the way some men are.
I don't know what goes on through people's minds either but I swear all I can do is stand back and shake my head somtimes. The sad part is I can only imagine it getting shoddier.
Please remember that anytime you post on a public message board there are bound to be some replies you agree with and some you disagree with. Simply choose what you feel is the most appropriate and ignore the rest. Love & Sex is a large channel filled with people of different beliefs, and experiences. We appreciate keeping this debate and discussion respectful, and just wanted to remind everyone to choose your words carefully and address comments to the topic at hand, and not at another individual. However, just because someone disagrees with your point of view doesn't necessarily mean that they are personally attacking you. If you disagree with the message someone else has offered, please state your opinion respectfully. The purpose of discussions on this board is to see a variety of opinions, not to prove that one opinion is the "right" one.
Remember, the Rules of Play http://www.ivillage.com/boards/0,,b46m,00.html ask us to "agree to disagree, respectfully".
Agree to Disagree, Respectfully: We invite and encourage a healthy exchange of opinions; disagreements are okay. If you disagree with a member's post or opinion during a live chat, by all means, challenge the opinion. However, any challenge must be given with a sense of respect and caring for the other person. The real objective of community is to understand each other, not to attack others and convince them that you're right. Name calling, insults, "flaming" and attacks are not appropriate and will not be tolerated. Agree to disagree respectfully.
When you see posts you feel cross the line or violate Terms of Service http://www.ivillage.com/about/0,,qr4p,00.html please click 'report a violation' at the bottom of the message. We make every effort to keep our boards free of troublesome posts but we need your help to do so, so please report when you see them. After you've reported the post we ask that you ignore it, and resist the urge to respond so we can handle things behind the scenes. We may not remove every post that is reported, but we will continue to monitor the situation to try to keep things from getting out of hand. Responding to disruptive posts can contribute to the disruption, and responding to an attacking post to defend yourself or someone else could also result in your post being removed for attack.
If you have questions you can email us at relationshipscm@mail.ivillage.com Thanks!
Corrine, Sr Community Moderator
iVillage Love & Sex
Pages