Have you read this book (for Floridagirl & others)?

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-28-1999
Have you read this book (for Floridagirl & others)?
5
Thu, 03-28-2013 - 9:52pm

I know Floridagirl likes to read self help books but this isn't just for her.  I read them from sort of a sociological perspective (I did major in Soc).  So I was in the bookstore tonight & read Why Men Love B-tches.  A friend of mine had recommended it.  I didn't actually read the whole thing but skimmed through a lot.  I think the title is very misleading because the author doesn't really tell women to be b--s, it's more that she is telling them to be empowered women, not doormats and to have self respect.  Some of it is obvious, although I have read stories from women on other boards that go like "well I slept with the guy the first night we met, he just comes to my house to watch TV & have sex and I don't know  why he doesn't want a relationship now"  well-duh!  You showed the guy he didn't have to work at anything.  Not that I think women should be manipulative and actually in the 3 serious relationships I've had (2 of which were marriages) I did have sex with the guy pretty early on, but I actually got an indication that the man was interested in me.  I think the good point here is that women shouldn't turn their lives upside down in order to get a man--like the women who will cancel their plans that they had already made with friends when the guy calls at the last minute.  I would never pretend to have plans if I didn't and sometimes spontaneity is a good thing, but who wants a guy who will NEVER call in advance for a date and always makes you wait to the day of to see if he will want to be with you?  That would get old pretty fast--most of the time, I would need at least a few days notice, not that every date has to be planned weeks in advance. I think it goes along with that prase that you show people how you want to be treated.

Now this is another book that says that men should pay for dates in the beginning and that women shouldn't pursue men too much cause man actually enjoy the chase as much as the conquest.  This totally goes against everything I thought as someone who came of age in the feminist 70's and thought then that women showed their equality by not letting men pay.  lol  It's amazing that I did get a serious BF when I was just out of college!  I never thought too much about those issues then, but I just remembered--he probably paid for 90% of our dates cause he worked full time while I was in law school--I didn't think of it as a dating issue, I was just broke!  And I was just coming out of the days (when I was in high school) when girls NEVER called boys--I had a BF in high school and I probably called him once to tell him my grandmother died.  So then fast forward many years and you think things are different, men & women are more equal in the work place, why aren't we the same in dating?  I know that FG has said that relationships never seemed to work out when you pursued the guy but that isn't a universally held opinion here.

Well these kinds of books are all interesting to read.  I wouldn't make any of them my Bible, it's just interesting to get different perspectives.  And I'm 99% sure that men never read any relationship books.

Avatar for cfk_3
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-14-1999

I will never claim to be the sharpest tool in the shed, bit it is my humble opinion that men & women will never truly be on the same pages as it pertains to love & dating, because we do not have the same chemical make-up.  I think that there comes a time when we must listen to our hearts and with most women, I think the heart and emotions go hand in hand.  However, sometimes one must also consider science and nature.  It's almost akin to what FG indicated in an earlier post, " the river will flow".  Well, sexes will usually be their sex.  I don't think it always wise to stereotype, but I digress.  At a very basic level, my opinion is, men are hunters and women are home makers.  Yes, we have evolved to our society but I think people in our age group especially have to remember that this all just recently took place as you indicated in your post.  Sixtees, seventies?  I think a lot of people, men and women are still trying to figure it all out ;)

Thanks for the tip on the book.  Do you think it would be taken the wrong way to purchase it for a friend?  LOL, I don't think she'd take offense & we are like sisters but she is admittedly ummmmm . . . Too quick to fall for words instead of actions?  So, she sometimes falls into this trap you sort of touched upon.  

Avatar for floridagirl52
iVillage Member
Registered: 10-16-2006

I'm sitting here laughing. I guess I am known as quite the bookworm. I started reading "Why Men Love Bs" but I just found it so silly I couldn't finish it. I agree that women should be empowered, have self-respect and not be doormats. But I found her whole approach a bit much. I remember in one part she advised you to not cook for him, and if you do, serve him popcorn!

Like you, I was very influenced by the resurgence of the women's movement in the 70s. [sidebar: did you happen to catch "Gloria: In Her Own Words" on PBS recently? Fabulous] I never thought I was that influenced by the women's movement back then, but I've coincidentally been thinking about that recently, and realize how much of that I took in at that time. This is when I started to believe it was OK to ask men out, call them up, chase them, etc. But I don't think feminism was especially advocating you chase them, that was just me I suppose. But I believed men and women should be equal, and that a man shouldn't be expected to pay your way. I think one very powerful thing that came from the women's movement was the sexual liberation of women, which coincided with the invention of The Pill and legalized abortion. This was the first time in history that women could truly enjoy sex the way men have for centuries, and society was never the same. I think it's a really good thing that women no longer need to be sexually repressed and inhibited. BUT, this doesn't mean a woman needs to sleep around, detatch emotionally from the experience or to feel she needs to perform like a porn star with men. It also doesn't mean she needs to sleep with a man on the third date if she doesn't feel ready. But if she wants to sleep with a man on the first date, it's her choice. I say if she can handle it, good for her. But it's never OK in my book to sleep with a man before you are ready just because you're afraid he's going to dump you. 

Two interesting books I read about the same time were "Mars and Venus on a Date" and "The Rules for Online Dating." I know people make fun of those books, but I looked at dating differently after that. And no, don't make these your Bible. In my case, I realized I needed to grow some self-esteem when it came to men. I never had many boyfriends growing up, and I felt like if I didn't chase them and make myself available and accommodating that they would not notice me (pitiful, I know).

Those days are long gone.

I would never advise a woman to pretend like she had plans just to be hard to get. Martha Beck once said, "Instead of pretending you are busy, why not just be busy?" I see nothing wrong with accepting a last-minute invitation, but don't cancel your plans to do so. But if a guy always calls you at the last minute, I think that shows a lack of respect and a disorganzied lifestyle. So, you just say no.

When you think about it, even making a good woman friend has some parallels to dating. In a budding friendship, who would want a woman who constantly called you up wanting to get together? Or who sent a million texts a day? There needs to be some give and take, and that applies to any relationship.

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-28-1999

I think you could tell your friend that you read the book & found it interesting (and then you'd actually have to read it, but it would be quick) and then you could discuss it together.

I do think there is probably some biological difference that still exists, esp. as far as sex.  I think it probably evolved from the cave man days or something.  It was more necessary for women to tie sex & emotions together because a woman would want to be sure who the father of her child was which wouldn't happen if she was having sex with everybody (pre birth control days).  A man was probably made more to have sex with a lot of women to procreate the species.  Now of course we aren't purely driven by biology but I bet some of this still exists.  It's like women have the hormone (oxytocin I think) with orgasm which is the same hormone that makes mothers bond with their babies.

Since I majored in sociology we always thought about whether men/women had a characteristic because of bioloogy or socialization (nature vs. nurture).  Even though I think we have more "equality" between men & women today as far as work opportunities and things like that, I think in the social arena, men & women still think about things differntly.

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-28-1999

I totally agree with what you on what you said about sex.  There shouldn't be the old double standard where women were supposed to use sex as a prize and pretend not to enjoy it.  that's why I am kidn of disagreeing with Steve Harvey and those people who say that you should withhold sex for 90 days as some kind of test.  I got married twice and both times we had sex pretty much right away and that didn't make them leave although it was taking a risk on my part. But I agree that women shouldn't feel like they are forced to have sex to keep a man if they aren't ready.  I have a good friend who is very religious and she told me that she doesn't believe in sex outside of marriage--well she has managed to get a nice religous BF who feels the same way.  so in that case, she can know that they guy certainly likes her.  I wouldn't go to that extreme because I'm not that religious, but I'd like to be a little sure that the guy cares for me enough so that I don't have to wonder if he's going to be around the next week.

I also looked at Mars & Venus on a Date.  I think some things are kind of hokey like the part about asking a man for help.  Sure I'd ask a man for help in the heavy lifting or fixing things aroune the house dept.  I remember when I was first dating 2nd DH, he helped me cause I had bought a new washing machine and I didn't know that something had to be hooked up--I figured I would just plug it in and that would be all.  I don't knwo what it was but it involved welding.  Well I wasn't being fake cause I didn't know how to do it.  But it's not like I'm going to pretend that I'm incompetent.  Both exes didn't seem to mind that I was better at paying the bills and managing money & doing the income taxes.  I mean if someone knows I'm a lawyer it's not going to follow that I can get away w/ not being smart.

My best friend tends to call me last minute & say "what are you doing today?" like in an hour do you want to meet for lunch?  Of course if I'm doing nothing, I'd be happy to meet her.  But she takes the risk that I've already made plans.  Most of the time, I do like to plan a couple of days ahead for the weekend cause I don't want to be stuck doing nothing, so there have been times that I've said no to her.  But then if that happens we might discuss schedules and we'd say well the weekend after Easter is free, maybe we'll do something.  So I am pretty busy--if a guy always called last minute, I'd feel like he was only fitting me in if he had nothing better to do, which would be kind of insulting.

Avatar for cfk_3
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-14-1999

Music, I am just as offended when GF's call out of the blue to get together as when guys do it.  Not in my twenties or early thirties, but for some reason, it really annoys me now.  Not if it's a random occurance, but the ones who make a habit of it . . . I think we all have " those" in our lives.  Not that there's something wrong with them, but I have always wondered why that bothers me so much.  

You don't have to respond, I am just thinking out loud ;)