Help - reality check needed!
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| Sun, 04-16-2006 - 11:50am |
Hi,
I think I need a reality check. I kinda know what I should do, but want to ask what you guys think.
Ok, here goes...
I have been single for 7 months now. My ex - let's call him Jim - broke up with me last fall because he of my age and my plans for my professional future. I was 27 then, he was 21, and he knew 100% that he wanted a large family, 3 or 4 kids. I want to go to med school and not start a family until I'm at least 35, but having 3 or 4 kids starting at 35 is not the wisest thing to do. He also didn't think I should be taking out loans at 28 to go to med school - I should be saving instead. So he decided that he were not well matched in terms of what we wanted from life at what point, and broke it off. We were together for 18 months, and met at college (he was doing his BA, I was doing my MA). He moved away after graduating to start his first job (he signed the contract before he met me) and wanted me to move to his city and get a job, not go to med school. We did long-distance for a year (saw each other at weekends) and he hated that, as he wanted to see more of me. So the combined total of the circumstances made him decide that we were better off apart.
Jim was more or less what I wanted in a man: smart, witty, passionate about what he does, confident, affectionate, and attractive (to me; I am sure he doesn't do it for *every* woman lol). The only thing that always kinda bothered me was that he didn't seem to have a lot of "depth". His life had been plain sailing so far, everything had worked out for him professionally and in his private life, and he had never had any real problems. He was not emotionally stunted, but rather happy and content and care-free. And he found it impossible to understand when I had problems of any kind. If he could be happy and carefree, why did *I* find that so hard? Surely it wasn't rocket science to have a smooth-sailing life? That was his attitude though, and I never really felt understood. My first bf (we broke up a few years back) had incredible depth. With him, I was still finding new things to discover after years of being together. You'd peel off one layer, and there would be 5 more. With Jim, there weren't many layers, and that kind of bothered me. Whether that was due to his life experiences to date - and lack of problems of any kind - who knows? It's not unlikely.
Now, on that MA course there was a guy. Let's call him Jack. He was 24 when we started the course, I was 26. Jack, contrary to Jim, *has* that kind of layered feel about him. He is very private, but every now and then during our MA year you'd get the feeling that there was a whole lot more to him that meets the eye. He also had the same attributes that Jim had: smart, very witty and with a sharp sense of humour, passionate about what he does (he is a nature photographer), confident, attractive. I could think that about him while I was with Jim, and still be very happy with Jim. I was with Jim, period. Didn't stop me thinking that other men had lovely qualities too, but in my eyes Jim was still the non-plus-ultra, and I was never tempted to stray in any way :-)
I must admit though...when Jack had a fling during the MA with another girl, I felt mildly sad for a brief moment. Dunno why, and it only lasted for a brief moment. Then, when Jim and I broke up, Jack had already made plans to go travelling for half a year to far-away places with his new gf. They met just after we graduated with our MA. Again, I was sad, this time a little longer, because I thought that now I was single, maybe something would happen between Jack and I.
Why would I think that, I hear you ask?
Well, you see, Jack has always been flirtatious with me. It was very very subtle, hardly noticeable, but it was still there. So maybe subconsciously I had started to think whether he might be interested, given his flirtatiousness. And then when I was single and he had a gf, I realised that he now was off-limits and I would never find out if anything could have happened between us.
So, Jack went off travelling, I got on with my life. I have a lot on, work 2 jobs, do voluntary work, etc., preparing for med school, so I have been very busy and not had much time to think about guys at all - which has been more than fine :-) But now he is back from his travels, and we do chat on MSN cos we do have a similar sense humour and it's fun to talk to him. All us folks from the MA keep in touch anyway, so it's partly that as well.
But...I wanted to know where I stand with him. Whether he just saw me as a friend, cos I wanted to know whether I could talk to him without being unfair to his gf. And he seemed highly bemused that I wanted to know if he ever saw me as more than a friend back in our MA-days. Why was he bemused?
Because he had been freakin' interested in me, in a more-than-just-friends way!! Which had caused his flirtatiousness all that time... But I was with Jim, so Jack never said anything! And then Jack met a girl, and that was the end of that. Me and Jim broke up after Jack met *his* gf, so Jack and I were never single at the same time. And he admitted that he regrets the timing :-( He was also shocked to hear that I had felt sad that he hadn't been single when *I* finally was - he had never hoped to think that I was interested in him in a more-than-friends way!
And now I have a problem, which is where you guys come in. I need to stop talking to Jack, now that I know how he once felt about me? Because from what he was saying, there is a lot of regret there, and he really thinks the timing was crap. Add to that that he and his gf will be moving in together in the near future, and it all becomes a huge no-g0 area!
I have asked him if he is moving in with his gf because he can't wait to start his life with her. I asked him this when I believed he just saw me as a friend (despite his flirtatiousness he had never made any indications that he saw me as more than a good friend), and I am happy when my friends are happy. So I was just pleased that he seemed so much in love with his gf that they were moving in together. I mean, I would only move in with a guy if I saw long-term potential there.
But he doesn't sound as though that is why he is moving in with her. He wants to move into his own place (he has been staying at his parents since he came back from his travels) and can't afford it on his own, and she is in the same situation. They will also be co-authoring a book based on his pictures, so I guess that also played a part in their decision to share an apartment.
But I have read enough posts on this board to realise that what a man says about his relationship is not necessarily what is actually going on. For example, the classic situation where a man is having an extra-marital affair and says to the mistress that he is unhappy, staying only because of the children, and no longer sleeps with his wife. You can bet your life usually that he is lying. So who is to say that Jack is not moving in with his gf because he *is* madly in love with her, rather than saying "well, we both wanted to move in a place of our own, can't afford an apartment each, so we decided we might as well move in together".
I need to stop speaking to him while he is in a relationship, right? It's not fair on his gf, to have Jack talking to me online when he has admitted that he saw me as more than just a friend once and kinda regrets that the timing between he and I hadn't been better. And when I have told him I regret that too. His gf is lovely, and she does not deserve that.
I need to stay well clear of him as long as he is in a relationship, right? It will be a pain in the bum, cos he really does make me laugh and it's a hoot talking to him :-( But I don't want to fuel any thoughts/regrets he might have about me, and talking to him could pose a risk that that might happen. And that would impact his relationship with his gf, and I don't want that.
I am doing the right thing here, aren't I?
Sorry for the saga...any advice will be very much appreciated. Thanks!!
goddess
Edited 4/16/2006 11:55 am ET by goddess_bikingmad

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Yes...if you want more than a strictly platonic friendship with Jack, then stopping contact with him is a good idea.
Sheri
Hi Sheri
Thanks for your post. Thought that what I *thought* I should be doing seems to be what I *should* do.
But should I even still entertain the wish to have a more than platonic relationship with him? Cos what is the point? He has a gf...so it would just be wishful thinking on my part?
What do women do in this situation? Stop contact and wait, and in the meantime just get on with their lives? And if things are meant to happen, the guy will get in touch should he be single at some point in the future? I have never liked a guy with a gf before...so I am clueless how to behave, and don't know whether my wishes are pointless?
In any case, I would feel horrible if they broke up because of anything I mentioned to him. And it would also show him to be a not very sincere person either, if he broke up with his gf because a girl he has liked for a while is finally available and because he has just found out that that girl thought of him as more han a friend (something he had been hoping for but never expected to be true).
And I honestly, hand on heart, didn't tell Jack how I felt about him and asked him how he felt about me to break him and his gf up. I just wanted to add that, so people don't think I have some kind of hidden agenda with Jack. I honestly didn't think he thought of me in a non-platonic way, and I just wanted to find out why he was still being flirtatious. I wanted to know whether he just saw me firmly as a friend, so I could stop feeling guilty about having a guy with a gf be flirtatious with me.
I guess I am lucky in that he lives quite a long way away. So avoiding contact is easy ;-)
It's just a shame really. I hate missed chances - life is awfully unfair at times :-(
Sometimes I've been able to switch my mindset to truly platonic and have been able to keep the friendship going (but the men in question were never really flirtatious with me once they had a gf--I consider that tacky, frankly).
And if I'm not able to do that, then I move on...but without the "waiting" part. Life's too short to be waiting for something that may never happen!
And yes, life is unfair at times, I agree!!!
Sheri
Hmmm...what you say makes a lot of sense. I guess I was unsure whether it would make sense for me to wait and see what happens to him and his gf - see if they will break up. But that is a fool's game, and it would make me feel bad knowing that my happiness had come at his gf's unhappiness.
I don't think I could just have a platonic friendnship with him. In the back of my mind, I would always be thinking "I wish he was single". And I have a feeling that he would have thoughts in a similar direction sometimes if we kept up contact, which would not be right seen as he has a gf.
So I think the only way to go here - for both his and my own sake - is to move on. God, life sucks sometimes, cos he really is a great guy... :-( His gf is a very lucky lady!
Edited 4/16/2006 1:50 pm ET by goddess_bikingmad
goddess you are a truly lovely person to think of the gf and how she feels. I think you are doing the right thing and you will feel better about yourself by keeping away from him.
Then you'll at least have a clear conscious if you get together with him in the future. You never know!!
Good luck for your future.
Just an update:
Something happened with Jack last night which has reaffirmed to me that stopping contact and not thinking about a possible relationship in the future is the right way to go.
I did ask him (probably a horrid thing to do!!) what would happen if he ever broke up with his gf - I wanted to know if I would waste my time waiting for him. He had hinted that things weren't going brilliantly at the moment between them(and he wasn't sure if he wanted to be in a relationship at the moment anyways), so I was just wondering that IF they ever break up, would there be any chance for US?
To cut a long story short: he would not want another serious relationship for quite a while. He says he has never been single for more than a few months since age 20 (he is 26 now), and would like some freedom and fun without committment if/when he next became single - and he would quite like me to be a part of that. He also said that he would not rule out the chance of something more serious developing out of the "fun", but he can't predict that. When I said that in that case he could give me a call once he has had all the freedom he wants (cos I would not really want to know what he was getting up to during the "freedom period"), we could see then. His response? "Well, I might have met someone by then though that I wanted to get serious with", meaning a casual fling developing into something more.
My first thought, on hearing that, was: "I am wasting my time thinking about a possible relationship with this guy". Even if he was single at some future point, he would want fun and freedom first. And I am 28 now. I do want to get married and have a family one day. And I think waiting for Jack to become single and THEN wait to see if he wanted something serious would be to wait for me to grow a third arm - it *could* happen, but how much time would I want to waste waiting for the off-chance?
So, much as I would like to get to know him, and kiss him, and have fun with him, and hopefully a relationship, it is a very bad idea to wait and hope that that will happen. And it is a crying shame, cos he has everything I would like a guy to have.
So - stopping contact is the only way forward I think. Why should I be different from his current gf? If he is not sure he wants to be in a relationship (with her or anyone else), why should he want to be in one with me? I know women find the thought appealing that *they* will be the one who are special and different and will make the man behave differently. But that is a fool's game.
I am walking away from this one I think, much as it hurts to do that. I cannot keep my eye on him at the back of my mind, cos if I kept entertaining the possibility that something might happen with him one day, I would not want to get serious with another guy. I would not even notice other guys. So in order to meet someone who is SURE they want a gf and something serious, I would need to close my eyes to Jack. And once closed, they won't re-open.
I am 28 - I don't want to stand there at 32 and be told that sorry, this is not going to lead to something as serious as marriage and family. I mean, we even differ in our definition of a "serious" relationship: to him, serious means "proper gf", to me it would mean "proper bf with a good chance of family with the man". Sure, I had serious relationships in my early and mid 20s, but I would not have started anything if not at some point I could have imagined a long-term, serious, committed relationship - and after going out for a certain length of time, whether family with the man in question would be something either of us would categorically rule out.
Maybe I am not doing him justice here. Maybe my views on deciding who to start a relationship with are a little on the strict side. But I think I am too old in a way to have "let's just see where this goes" relationships. I think two people can start being bf and gf and see where it goes, but at the sametime be pretty sure that they want to be in it long-haul?
What do people think? Is my approach to potential bfs a recipe for unhappiness?
Edited 4/17/2006 11:45 pm ET by goddess_bikingmad
Edited 4/17/2006 11:49 pm ET by goddess_bikingmad
Thanks for that, that really helped. I have gotten myself in hurtful situations before when it came to love, just because I choose to ignore to listen to my gut instinct. And my gut instinct here was "there is no point waiting, just move on" and I am quite glad that I listened to it this time. And that I am just protecting myself from the very real danger of heartache, rather than being picky.
The more I hear about this whole thing, the more convinced I am that stopping contact really is the only way forward.
I mean, I mentioned to a friend this morning that I had talked to Jack online over the weekend. No big deal as such, we were college friends before this whole talk happened and used to chat like friends do. And I told her what he had said about liking me in the past, and not ruling anything out should he become single again. And her face just had this absolutely *horrified* look on it, and she said "Oh my god, why is he even talking to you about that stuff when he has a gf! You just don't *say* stuff like "if I ever am single again, we can go on a date" when you are in a relationship!! I would be so so hurt if I found out that my bf was talking to another woman like that!"
And I admit, that made me feel kinda yucky. It makes it sound as though he has no morals at all, that he has a rotten character. And I still feel the temptation to text or email him and have a chat (cos I do like talking to him, everything aside, he is really funny and great to chat to), and when I get the urge I feel sooo low-life and I just stop myself. Because I think: if he has no morals and a rotten character, and I still want him, what does that say about me?!
Maybe I am being to hard on him or me, as he is not a sleazeball with no morals, and I am not a brazen harlot, but it just feels kinda illicit and not right. And it IS not right for me to talk to him, knowing how he once felt and on some level still feels, and knowing how I feel about him.
My friend also said "well, if he feels like that he should just break up with his gf and go out with you. He should be honest and all that." I told her that he can't do that because he signed a lease on an apartment for 6 months weeks before this conversation ever took place, and that he needs to live somewhere and so does she, and that there are no houseshares where they live, and at least equally important of all that he has feelings for his gf (though he says he isn't sure he is in love with her ) and is unsure whether he wants to risk an ok to good relationship for a relationship with a girl he doesn't yet really know (me). She just shook her head. And I thought she had a point. I feel so stupid, cos I have read posts before with men having reasons for not doing stuff. So I am probably just blindly believing what he says, rather than thinking "he is making excuses".
So I am grateful that I am recognising the signs early on this time, rather than ignore them and head for pain and heartache.
Thanks for listening, and for all your advice x
Edited 4/18/2006 8:33 am ET by goddess_bikingmad
I think that's definitely the right thing to do.
No, you're not being too hard on him...it *is* sleazy for him to be talking to you like that when he's living with another woman. Of course, very few people are "all bad" or "all good"...I'm sure he has some very good qualities, but being honorable with this woman isn't one of them.
I agree that you are making the right decision to stop contact...I know it's not easy, but it will get easier after you've done it for a while.
Sheri
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