Help - reality check needed!

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-04-2005
Help - reality check needed!
31
Sun, 04-16-2006 - 11:50am

Hi,

I think I need a reality check. I kinda know what I should do, but want to ask what you guys think.

Ok, here goes...

I have been single for 7 months now. My ex - let's call him Jim - broke up with me last fall because he of my age and my plans for my professional future. I was 27 then, he was 21, and he knew 100% that he wanted a large family, 3 or 4 kids. I want to go to med school and not start a family until I'm at least 35, but having 3 or 4 kids starting at 35 is not the wisest thing to do. He also didn't think I should be taking out loans at 28 to go to med school - I should be saving instead. So he decided that he were not well matched in terms of what we wanted from life at what point, and broke it off. We were together for 18 months, and met at college (he was doing his BA, I was doing my MA). He moved away after graduating to start his first job (he signed the contract before he met me) and wanted me to move to his city and get a job, not go to med school. We did long-distance for a year (saw each other at weekends) and he hated that, as he wanted to see more of me. So the combined total of the circumstances made him decide that we were better off apart.

Jim was more or less what I wanted in a man: smart, witty, passionate about what he does, confident, affectionate, and attractive (to me; I am sure he doesn't do it for *every* woman lol). The only thing that always kinda bothered me was that he didn't seem to have a lot of "depth". His life had been plain sailing so far, everything had worked out for him professionally and in his private life, and he had never had any real problems. He was not emotionally stunted, but rather happy and content and care-free. And he found it impossible to understand when I had problems of any kind. If he could be happy and carefree, why did *I* find that so hard? Surely it wasn't rocket science to have a smooth-sailing life? That was his attitude though, and I never really felt understood. My first bf (we broke up a few years back) had incredible depth. With him, I was still finding new things to discover after years of being together. You'd peel off one layer, and there would be 5 more. With Jim, there weren't many layers, and that kind of bothered me. Whether that was due to his life experiences to date - and lack of problems of any kind - who knows? It's not unlikely.

Now, on that MA course there was a guy. Let's call him Jack. He was 24 when we started the course, I was 26. Jack, contrary to Jim, *has* that kind of layered feel about him. He is very private, but every now and then during our MA year you'd get the feeling that there was a whole lot more to him that meets the eye. He also had the same attributes that Jim had: smart, very witty and with a sharp sense of humour, passionate about what he does (he is a nature photographer), confident, attractive. I could think that about him while I was with Jim, and still be very happy with Jim. I was with Jim, period. Didn't stop me thinking that other men had lovely qualities too, but in my eyes Jim was still the non-plus-ultra, and I was never tempted to stray in any way :-)

I must admit though...when Jack had a fling during the MA with another girl, I felt mildly sad for a brief moment. Dunno why, and it only lasted for a brief moment. Then, when Jim and I broke up, Jack had already made plans to go travelling for half a year to far-away places with his new gf. They met just after we graduated with our MA. Again, I was sad, this time a little longer, because I thought that now I was single, maybe something would happen between Jack and I.

Why would I think that, I hear you ask?

Well, you see, Jack has always been flirtatious with me. It was very very subtle, hardly noticeable, but it was still there. So maybe subconsciously I had started to think whether he might be interested, given his flirtatiousness. And then when I was single and he had a gf, I realised that he now was off-limits and I would never find out if anything could have happened between us.

So, Jack went off travelling, I got on with my life. I have a lot on, work 2 jobs, do voluntary work, etc., preparing for med school, so I have been very busy and not had much time to think about guys at all - which has been more than fine :-) But now he is back from his travels, and we do chat on MSN cos we do have a similar sense humour and it's fun to talk to him. All us folks from the MA keep in touch anyway, so it's partly that as well.

But...I wanted to know where I stand with him. Whether he just saw me as a friend, cos I wanted to know whether I could talk to him without being unfair to his gf. And he seemed highly bemused that I wanted to know if he ever saw me as more than a friend back in our MA-days. Why was he bemused?

Because he had been freakin' interested in me, in a more-than-just-friends way!! Which had caused his flirtatiousness all that time... But I was with Jim, so Jack never said anything! And then Jack met a girl, and that was the end of that. Me and Jim broke up after Jack met *his* gf, so Jack and I were never single at the same time. And he admitted that he regrets the timing :-( He was also shocked to hear that I had felt sad that he hadn't been single when *I* finally was - he had never hoped to think that I was interested in him in a more-than-friends way!

And now I have a problem, which is where you guys come in. I need to stop talking to Jack, now that I know how he once felt about me? Because from what he was saying, there is a lot of regret there, and he really thinks the timing was crap. Add to that that he and his gf will be moving in together in the near future, and it all becomes a huge no-g0 area!

I have asked him if he is moving in with his gf because he can't wait to start his life with her. I asked him this when I believed he just saw me as a friend (despite his flirtatiousness he had never made any indications that he saw me as more than a good friend), and I am happy when my friends are happy. So I was just pleased that he seemed so much in love with his gf that they were moving in together. I mean, I would only move in with a guy if I saw long-term potential there.

But he doesn't sound as though that is why he is moving in with her. He wants to move into his own place (he has been staying at his parents since he came back from his travels) and can't afford it on his own, and she is in the same situation. They will also be co-authoring a book based on his pictures, so I guess that also played a part in their decision to share an apartment.

But I have read enough posts on this board to realise that what a man says about his relationship is not necessarily what is actually going on. For example, the classic situation where a man is having an extra-marital affair and says to the mistress that he is unhappy, staying only because of the children, and no longer sleeps with his wife. You can bet your life usually that he is lying. So who is to say that Jack is not moving in with his gf because he *is* madly in love with her, rather than saying "well, we both wanted to move in a place of our own, can't afford an apartment each, so we decided we might as well move in together".

I need to stop speaking to him while he is in a relationship, right? It's not fair on his gf, to have Jack talking to me online when he has admitted that he saw me as more than just a friend once and kinda regrets that the timing between he and I hadn't been better. And when I have told him I regret that too. His gf is lovely, and she does not deserve that.

I need to stay well clear of him as long as he is in a relationship, right? It will be a pain in the bum, cos he really does make me laugh and it's a hoot talking to him :-( But I don't want to fuel any thoughts/regrets he might have about me, and talking to him could pose a risk that that might happen. And that would impact his relationship with his gf, and I don't want that.

I am doing the right thing here, aren't I?

Sorry for the saga...any advice will be very much appreciated. Thanks!!

goddess




Edited 4/16/2006 11:55 am ET by goddess_bikingmad
Avatar for northwestwanderer
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Fri, 04-21-2006 - 8:02pm

Either reason or both reasons...it doesn't matter, IMO. Where there's a will, there's a way.

Whether he's lazy or whether he just doesn't care enough or both...the end result is the same...he's moving in with her, and he's not with you. The "why" doesn't matter.

Sheri

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-01-2005
Fri, 04-21-2006 - 8:04pm

He. Has. A. Girlfriend.

Thats all you need to know. Whatever his intentions/feelings/actions are with her or whatever any intentions/feelings/actions he may or may not have for you, all this speculation is going to make your brain and your heart hurt. And hurt a lot.

Bottom line is that he has a girlfriend and it isnt you. Doesnt matter what your life is going to be like in the next 6 years with med school and his needing to be free and explore the world or where he's going to live. He isn't with you.

Sorry to sound harsh but all of the what if's and why's and will he's wont help you. You can't live your life with what if's, why's and will he's. Just live.

Ruby

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-16-2006
Fri, 04-21-2006 - 8:09pm
Agreed, rubyshoes. You said it so much simpler than me. And you're 100% correct.
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-04-2005
Fri, 04-21-2006 - 8:26pm

Hi again Sheri,

<< Whether he's lazy or whether he just doesn't care enough or both...the end result is the same...he's moving in with her, and he's not with you. The "why" doesn't matter.

I guess that sums it up - and I feel sad about that :-(

Well, guess it's up to me what to do now. Take your advice of feeling sad and moving on emotionally, or be sad and hopeful and then feel horrible when I find out he will not be wanting a relationship with me in the future...

Well, I have taken the road before that I didn't want to take, but which eveyone said was the better road in the long run. More or less everyone on this board has told me to move on. So I think I will be listening on the collective voice of reason.

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-04-2005
Fri, 04-21-2006 - 8:30pm

Hi Ruby,

<< He. Has. A. Girlfriend.

Thats all you need to know. Whatever his intentions/feelings/actions are with her or whatever any intentions/feelings/actions he may or may not have for you, all this speculation is going to make your brain and your heart hurt. And hurt a lot.

Yes, you are right. It hurts. A LOT. And there is the potential for the hurt getting even worse 6 months down the line.

So I think I will try and forget about him and move on. Because whilst I will be hurt and sad going down that road, the hurt I feel now is not good for me. And the sooner it stops the better really...




Edited 4/21/2006 8:31 pm ET by goddess_bikingmad
Avatar for northwestwanderer
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Fri, 04-21-2006 - 8:44pm

I know...it *is* sad, and it's totally understandable that you feel that way.

Accepting what IS, when it's not what you want, is hard! With my situation, I can point to all the good things about this guy and how wonderful the time that we spend together is, but the bottom line is, he almost certainly doesn't want the same type of relationship I do, and I don't think I can settle for what he is willing to give and be happy. It doesn't feel *fair* that I meet someone I like this much yet it's probably not going to work out, and it makes me very sad, but it is what it is and I need to accept that. I'm willing to give him a few more weeks to show me differently, but I don't really have a lot of hope it's going to happen.

Moving on won't be easy for you, but it is the wiser course, I think.

Sheri

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-04-2005
Fri, 04-21-2006 - 10:45pm

Hi again Sheri,

<< It doesn't feel *fair* that I meet someone I like this much yet it's probably not going to work out, and it makes me very sad, but it is what it is and I need to accept that.

One sentence, so much source for sadness and heartache...But it sums up your and my situation rather succintly.

You are right - it does NOT feel fair - especially since you and me really like the respective guys. This is something in life that I am still trying to learn how to cope with: having something happen to me which I don't think is fair :-( To me, unfairness in life is a monumental concept to get my head around, and I am still learning how to deal with it.

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-04-2005
Sat, 04-22-2006 - 1:42pm

Hi again, just a quick update.

I think I have finally got it into my head that you guys were right when you said that I should forget about him, that he was not into me enough. Ok, this is what happened...

His gf came to stay with him from Wednesday onwards. They are moving into their apartment today. Which means that as from today, he will not have internet access for a few weeks (until he has sorted out a connection to the apartment and had in installed).

I chatted to him online on Tuesday evening for the last time. Then on Wednesday, I was gobsmacked to receive a really thoughtful little gift from him in the post (tying in with something we had been talking about). The gift was definitely more-than-just-friends, nothing lewd or raunchy, but not something you would send a girl unless you maybe wanted to make a slightly romantic gesture. It was definitely more thoughtful than anything any of my ex-bfs has ever given me (but then maybe that says more about the ex-bfs!).

I debated whether to say anything about it, as I had wanted to cut contact with him. But eventually I decided to send him a quick "thank-you" email. This was the evening that his gf was there. He replied to my email early on Thursday morning, saying I was welcome and that he was glad I liked the gift. I replied to his email Thursday midday, and have not heard back from him since then. I knew that he would still have internet access on Thursday (and then not have internet access from Friday onwards), so when he didn't reply on the Thursday I thought that they were probably just busy packing and he wasn't checking emails. I did wonder why he sent the gift in the first place, and why he replied to my initial thank-you email on the Thursday morning, when his gf was in the same house from Wednesday onwards.

Then, Thursday afternoon, I do admit that I "cracked". I texted him about something to do with a mutual friend of ours, partly because he needed to know that piece of information and partly because I wanted to hear from him, and the text was a good excuse to contact him. I got a reply within a few minutes. I replied to it and have not heard anything since. I texted him again briefly today about something else, relating to a trip I am taking - I wanted to let him know that I would be keeping an eye out for a book he has been looking for (it's more likely to be available where I am going on my trip). Again, I wanted to test the waters and see how quick he would get back to me. I admit that yes, I was testing him. And everyone knows that that is pointless and stupid. He has not replied to that text so far. And I don't think he will. Fair enough, he is moving today, and has a million other things to do, other than check his phone. But I think he will look at my text, think "well, I don't really feel the desire to be in contact with goddess anymore, now that my gf is here" and not reply.

I really think that he was lying to me about how he feels for his gf. I think he probably has much stronger feelings for her that he let on. And that I was kidding myself. Why? Because I *wanted* to believe that maybe their relationship was not going quite as strong as I would have expected after them being together for a year, and about to move in together. He hadn't seen her in a few weeks when I started chatting to him last weekend, he was maybe not feeling *quite* as strongly about her then. And I was a welcome distraction and an ego boost (always nice to know someone fancies you), and he was bored and up for some meaningless flirting while his gf was getting ready to move. Who knows. All the stuff he was spouting about him being sorry he wasn't single, that he would let me know if he ever became single again, that his was hoping that them moving in together would make them closer or they would have a real problem, that he could imagine having a fling or more with me one day perhaps, that he would have a hard time not kissing me if we met, I think that was all harmless BS. That he said it because he knew nothing would ever come of it. Problem was: I believed he was serious.

I mean, in the entire 4 days that we chatted, he never once called me to talk to me in person. It was strictly chat and email. When I told him that it was weird that we would spend 4 days chatting without actually talking over the phone and hearing each others voice, he said that would make it "more real" if we moved from online to over-the-phone. WTF?! He has liked and occasionally thought about me in more-than-friends terms for 2 years. He has kinda kicked himself somewhat for 2 years because he never told me how he felt about me. He last spoke to me in person a *year* ago. And after all that time and thought, I now tell him that I have feelings for him too, and he does NOT want to talk to me? In what world does that make sense?!?

So I think that you guys were right. He is moving in with her because he wants to. Period. If he wanted to be with me rather than her, he would make that happen. He isn't doing so. For all I know, he is probably pleased with himself that he got a girl he used to like (and maybe still does like, but those feelings are irrelevant now) to go all fluttery over him. I mean, for chrissakes, I even told him that colleagues at work had noticed that I seemed unusually happy and perky the day after I received the little gift from him. I wanted to let him know what an effect he was having on me. What an egoboost that must have been for him, knowing he could get me all in a tizzy because I like him so much!!

At the moment, I don't really want to speak to him ever again. I feel that I have been led on in a way, though of course I was a very willing participant because I want him to want me. I don't think he ever meant anything he said, or if he did, he was just flirting and saying stuff like "I wish I was single" and "I don't think I could stop myself from kissing you if I met up with you" because it was *safe*. Because, at the end of the day, he can always turn around and say "yes, I did say that, but I am moving in with my gf, so I am sorry I cannot do anything about my feelings for you at this point".

I do not think he was doing it to string me along though. If that was his plan, he would have replied to my 2 texts, wouldn't he, feeding me little bits and pieces to keep me thinking that he can't get me out of his head. But he is more or less ignoring me. He does not intend for anything ever to happen, even if he DID break up with his gf. Those 4 days of chatting and the gift from him were just a long trip to fantasy land, brought on my how he used to feel about me and the (pleasant) surprise of finding out that I have feelings for him. It was an egoboost for him, plain and simple. And now his gf is with him and they are moving to the apartment, he is jolted back to reality. And the reality ist that he has been with this girl for a year, has feelings for her (whether he is in love or not, who knows, and he obviously feels enough for her to want to be with her), and they will move in together. What he feels for me, or what he said to me, belong in a different universe, and is irrelevant now his gf is there.

And end of story.

I am putting this one well away on the very top shelf, like Sheri said. And I am disappointed, because he seemed genuine in his feelings for me. I am also sad, because I really liked him (still do) and he has all the qualities I want in a man - and now I know that nothing will ever happen between us. He was having a little bit of fun, and I let him have fun and (unwittingly) play with my feelings. And now he has his gf with him. His life is sorted.

He was saying that he does not intend to lose touch with me. When he said that, it sounded as though he wanted that to happen because he likes chatting to me, and to keep me mildly interested should he ever be single and want something with me (whether casual or serious). But much as I would like to continue chatting to him (cos he does make me laugh a lot), I don't think I can. It would hurt to much, knowing he probably didn't mean what he said last weekend. And even if he DID mean it, he has no intention to act on it. Staying in friends-only contact with him, when I want to be more than friends with him, is something I can't do. It hurts. And I am not cut out for that.

It is a shame that I cannot talk to my gfs about this. I would not want them to start pitying me, because he doesn't see me as worth leaving his gf over.

So...wish me luck in moving on from him. It will hurt, but I am not staying where I am now. I have more pride and self-respect than that! Thank you for all your posts - once again the collective voice of the ivillage posters has shown itself to be correct.




Edited 4/22/2006 5:35 pm ET by goddess_bikingmad
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-04-2005
Sat, 04-22-2006 - 7:03pm

God, I feel angry at the moment!!! I think I just need to vent a little...

I makes my blood boil to think that Jack is probably watching telly with his gf in their new apartment right this moment, the two of them all cosy and cuddly, curled up together on the couch, his memory oblivious of all the stuff he told me: "I have liked you for 2 years, I don't think I could NOT kiss you if I met up with you, I am sorry I am not single, I am sorry I didn't say anything about my feelings for you sooner, I don't intend to lose contact with you, yadda yadda yadda"!! And then they will go and sleep in the same bed, make love, have breakfast tomorrow and enjoy the lovely spring weather, without him wasting a brain cell on me. God, it makes me angry!! Not because he has a gf - but because he (deliberately?) gave me the impression that after finding out how I felt about him he was in somewhat of a turmoil with his feelings about me and her. He CLEARLY is not!

It also hurts to go from chatting with him for hours, and him indicating that he had feelings for me and was thinking about me, to being completely ignored by him. All in the space of 2-3 days! I must admit, I do feel lonely a lot at the moment. Idon't feel as though I am in ANYONE'S thought much. All my friends are usually not around at the weekend because they are busy doing stuff with their bfs/gfs, and during the week I don't see my friends anywhere near as often as I would like because both they and I are quite busy. And talking to him was fun and refreshing and gave me a warm feeling inside. And now he is all cuddly and cosy with his gf in his new apartment, not wasting any brain space on me, while I sit here typing and feeling sad and hurt and a little unwanted and uncared for :-(

The bizarre thing about this whole situation is though that the first impression I got of him was "genuine and straightforward". Well, he has been behaving anything but with me, and that hurts to find out :-( I liked and still like him a lot as a person, and finding out that someone you like as a person is capable of behaving like this is disappointing.

It's hugely ironic actually...when he thought I only saw him as a friend he would get back to my texts and emails really quickly (or as quickly as he could during the time he was travelling with his gf). Maybe he thought that if he was very attentive, maybe I would figure out that he liked me, and my feelings for him might change eventually?! And now he knows where is with me and how I feel about him, it's almost as if he no longer feels the need to bother. I had not pegged him as that kinda guy at all - you know the one, who is only interested in the chase. I thought he was nice and decent and genuine and thoughtful. At least he was when he thought I only saw him as a friend. Very disappointing to find about this side of his, I must say...

I am glad for this board, as I can't really talk to my gfs about this - one of them has feelings of sorts for him too and would be jealous to find out he kinda liked/likes (whatever!!) me more than her.

I am getting the overwhelming urge though to want to be able to talk to my gfs about this, because I am hurting and want some sympathy and support from them. But if I tell one or two of them, my friend who also likes Jack will find out eventually because it will create a strange atmosphere somehow, the others knowing about this "bombshell" bit of news and her not knowing. And if my friend finds out, she will be torn between being angry with HIM because he likes me more than her, and pitying ME because even though he likes me more than her, he *still* doesn't think I am worth leaving his gf for and that I obviously deserve to have my feelings played with and then be ignored by him.

She thinks she is prettier than me and any sane guy would chose her over me. Yet, although Jack had a fling with her at uni, had I not had a bf back then he would have made move on me and not had a fling with my friend. But she was coming on to him, he was available, I was unavailable, so he figured he might as well have something with her. And knowing that part of the reason he picked her was because he couldn't have ME would hurt her pride and turn her against me, I fear. It's not because of malicious reasons that she thinks she is prettier/more desirable than me btw. It's just kind of a no-brainer to her. Like thinking that someone with a degree in medicine might be a more obvious choice to work as a doctor than someone who has not undergone medical training.

So, I cannot tell my gfs about this, because my friend will find out, and I don't want her pity. I don't want her looking at me, thinking: "well, sweetie, of *course* he isn't replying to your texts and emails anymore now he is living with his gf - did you ever really think a guy like him could be seriously into someone like YOU? And did you honestly believe all the stuff he was telling you about how he likes you, regrets he isn't single, wished you had been available when he had that fling with me, etc? He was bored, that's why he flirted with you and said all that stuff - he never meant it!" And she would not mean this in a malicious way - more like a gently disbelieving way, kinda like an older sibling telling a younger child that they didn't really think that Father Christmas existed, did they?!

And that would make me feel really bad about myself. PLus, if I told her I was feeling upset that he was ignoring me now, she would probably just think "well, he has a gf and has just moved in with her - what do you expect?!" But HEY - he had no problem contacting me before all this came out, despite him having a gf then as well. It's just that since he found out how I feel about him, and since he moved in with her, that he seems no longer bothered.

She (and my other friends) would probably be utterly flabbergasted that I was wishing he would care for *me*, when he has a GF!! Rule 1: when someone you like has a gf/bf, you could your losses and move on. I seem to be violating that rule, and my friends would probably show little understanding for why I would feel upset. AND they would feel appalled that he has been saying the stuff he has been saying to me, because he has a gf!! So that would make them even less sympathetic as to why I am hurt. But the humiliation of going from lots of contact to zero in the space of 2 days stings...knowing that he received my texts but has no intention whatsoever anymore to reply, because he didn't mean anything he said :-(

He said that once he has internet access in the apartment we can chat online again cos he is online a lot (works from home). But even if that happened (don't think it will), it would probably only be when he is bored. And I don't want to be the option he thinks of only when bored.

I apologise for going on and on. But at times my head just feels like it is about to explode!!

Thanks for your hugs and words of encouragement though. I have gotten over a guy before, and I will again. I just wish it was a little easier, and that I could get a real-life hug :-(




Edited 4/22/2006 9:25 pm ET by goddess_bikingmad
Avatar for northwestwanderer
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Sat, 04-22-2006 - 8:08pm

Hey, well, here's a cyber hug in the meantime. Do you have school counselors available by any chance? Talking to someone like that might help since talking to your friends is problematic. Or is there one of your friends you could confide in and trust not to tell the friend who likes him if you ask her not to? Or a friend outside of that group of friends, maybe?

I'm very angry at the guy in my situation today also...basically because his behavior with his so-called ex has caused me to not be able to trust anything he's saying (I say "so-called" because who knows if he's even telling the truth about her being an ex!) and so I don't see any choice other than to end it (aside from the whole wanting different things issue).

I'm dating up a storm but of course none of the men I am meeting come close to him in terms of the attraction level and great rapport we felt from the first time we met. But it doesn't matter, does it...he doesn't want me as a girlfriend and I can't trust him. So all the amazing chemistry in the world doesn't make up for that.

Sorry, I went into a rant of my own...but I totally understand where you're coming from. It's not fair, it sucks, etc. Like you, I've done this before and I'll probably do this again...but it doesn't make it any easier to go through.

Sheri