I finally got a date

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-07-2006
I finally got a date
46
Wed, 01-17-2007 - 2:33pm
I finally worked up the courage to go up and start a conversation with this girl who frequently serves me coffee at a coffee stand close to work. We've seen eachother around so she knows who I am. I asked for her number and asked her out for Saturday evening she said yes. I'm thinking about taking her to dinner and then to a pool hall afterwards. I'm really excited (I've only been on 2 dates my whole life and the last one was in July) but I'm really nervous at the same time. I don't know what mistakes I made with the last 2 girls I went on dates with, but none of them were interested in seeing me a second time. I really want this girl to stick around. What can I do or say to make her stick?
iVillage Member
Registered: 10-14-2003
Thu, 02-01-2007 - 5:58pm

>Did you read my post on 7308.13?<

I *probably* did but don't recall it off the top of my head. I am also embarrassed to admit that I don't know how to search by post number. :(

With that said - I used to know this one "nice guy" who actively pursued me several years ago. And when I turned him down and told him *why* I was turning him down (because I was seeing someone else) he unleashed this tirade of hatred on me that lasted almost a week in flame emails, calling me every name he could think of.

I guess I should have seen how "nice" he was. Funny - he didn't seem too nice to me.

And he was all about other guys "being jerks and getting all the women."

Jerk, huh? Pot... kettle... black...

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-30-2004
Thu, 02-01-2007 - 6:05pm

>>I am also embarrassed to admit that I don't know how to search by post number. :( <<

Ditto. I just hoped other people would. I wanted to link, but I don't know how to do that either.

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-01-2005
Fri, 02-02-2007 - 12:39pm

Red -

I totally understand your frustration, but it's not just women who do this. I've had men do it to me, and I know most single women have experienced it as well. At some point, it really is something you have to decide is the other person's problem, and not take it personally. If you let yourself be crushed every time a girl you barely know turns you down or cancels, then you will be paralyzed with fear. It's best to realize that the girl is not doing it out of spite - but that the timing or the chemistry may be off. That doesn't mean YOU are off. It just means you haven't found the right girl yet.

Yes, dating is hard. It hurts sometimes. But, it is up to each of us how we react. We can control our own reactions, but not the actions of others, and we just have to accept that at some point.

~TG

AJ, enjoying life with C.

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-21-2005
Fri, 02-02-2007 - 12:45pm

"It's best to realize that the girl is not doing it out of spite - but that the timing or the chemistry may be off. That doesn't mean YOU are off."


This is true.

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-17-2004
Sat, 02-03-2007 - 7:44am

Hi Emdeesa,

Well, I think you already know my feelings on this topic so we don't really need go there. As per usual, I'm in total agreement with you. I've bookmarked that site you mentioned - good find! I consider myself a self appointed associate member of the 'I'm not bitter' club. I also think that a lot of women misunderstand what makes a 'nice' guy and are easily manipulated into thinking a man is nice and has their best intentions at heart when he doesn't.

Feisty




Edited 2/3/2007 8:41 am ET by feisty01
iVillage Member
Registered: 11-21-2005
Sat, 02-03-2007 - 9:45am

"I also think that a lot of women misunderstand what makes a 'nice' guy and are easily manipulated into thinking a man is nice and has their best intentions at heart when he doesn't. "


That is so true!

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-07-2006
Sun, 02-04-2007 - 9:04pm

In response to emdeesea

>>>Because you said you were looking for notches in your belt and sexual experience and you didn't care who it was with.<<<

How is that exploitative? Some girls are interested in purely casual sex. All I’m saying is that if a girl is interested in me, whether its for a serious relationship or a one night stand, I’d be perfectly happy pursuing either.

>>>You're like one of those guys who takes a woman out to dinner, pays for dinner, and then gets mad because she doesn't want to sleep with him afterwards! One does not equal the other!<<<

No, but I expect a girl to follow through when she promises she’ll be at a certain place at a certain time. It’s called honesty and responsibility.

In response to phatgenes and emdeesea

>>>You have a right to desire it, but you don't have a right to get it. Once you let go of that idea you will be a lot better off. You are not entitled to it. My issue here is with the sense of entitlement that your posts convey. It seems like you feel as if you have been wronged because you were denied something that you felt you were entitled to.

Just because something costs you a lot, does not mean that it will be appreciated. It has to be what she wants, what she is looking for. I know that is hard, but that is life. Usually, women have to feel that you desire HER, not any woman. And forgive me if I made it sound like relationships and sex are like a transaction where you give A and get B. It is more like a business partnership with a lot of lovey dovey stuff instead of money. Most women would like to see the potential for an ongoing and productive give and take, not a one time purhcase. Also, you have to at least act like you are going to be faithful.

If you are friends with a girl, than you are supposed to like her and be nice to her and do things for her. That is what friendship is. If you think of it only as an investment towards sex then it is not really friendship is it? YEARS eh? What a burden.

I did not say you were selfish, what I meant was that you were not seeing things from their perspective. I think that is a lack of empathy. That is self centred, not selfish. I also am saying that you say a lot of things that suggests that you don't like women. If the women in your life pick up on that, it would be a huge turn off.<<<

>>>Bravo!

There is this wonderfully funny Web site called Heartless Bitches with several entries on "Nice Guys - BLECH!!" It can be found at
http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/ng.shtml.
I have found that, in general, this "Nice Guy" syndrome is masked misogyny. A kind guy is one thing - but the prototypical "nice guy" is entirely another. (shudder) <<<

I read through some articles on that site. All I have to say is this. Can you blame men for being this way?

I mean, you spend your childhood being ridiculed by your peers, constantly insulted on the bus and dirt thrown at you on the playground just because you’re there and that’s the way kids are. Then you get to high school, and you’re at the age where you’re starting to like girls and want to date, but you find out that all the girls you want not only don’t want you back. They look down on you. You overhear them gossiping and laughing about how “creepy” or “ugly” or “what a loser” some guys are, some of whom are your best friends who you know are kind and good people, just because they’re not as rich or popular or good looking as the guys on the lacrosse and basketball teams. You can’t even get a date to any dance or the prom.

The few girls who do you allow into their lives originally only want you to help them with their English and philosophy papers. Then if she doesn’t consider you an ugly, creepy loser enough to keep talking to you, the only reason she does is for your validation and emotional support through an abusive or unhealthy relationship. You do your best to remind her that you won’t cheat, that you won’t lie, that you won’t yell at her or insult her, but she keeps rejecting you.

You keep hearing all your life from girls that they want men who are kind, sensitive, loyal and who’ll be a friend to them. You try to be all that and more to the few girls who allow you into their lives because you genuinely believe (why would you believe otherwise?) that that is the way love is won and relationships form. It has NOTHING to do with being their friend as a way “trick women into sleeping with them” like this site claims.

You try and you wait and you try and try and wait some more, hoping that one day, she’ll realize that you were there for her when she needed you, appreciate your effort and patience and will give herself to you. But that day never comes, and to your bewilderment and confusion, she decides to stay with the same guy.

You get into college. You lose touch with all your high school friends, male and female, but you try to use it as an opportunity to start over again and reinvent yourself. But you run into the same problems. You overhear girls describing what a creepy loser a guy is when you know that there’s a 90% chance he is a good, kind person. Once again, the few girl who condescend to talk to you on a regular basis and honor you with a date tell you they want a guy who’s kind, loyal, honest and who’ll be a friend, but once again, no matter how much you offer those, they refuse you and you see her and all her peers going for drunk party boys, cheaters, players, liars and so on. Sometimes you see these girls going for those types of guys WILLINGLY.

So let me ask you this. How can you NOT feel like you were wronged? How can you NOT feel like everything you were told about love and sex, by girls, by the media, by society, even by supposedly wise and mature women, was all a lie? How can you NOT feel like you were deceived? How can you NOT feel like you were betrayed? You say I have entitlement issues. You say I’m bitter. You say I’m self centered. Maybe you're right. Maybe I am all those things, but after all the frustration, confusion and loneliness, who wouldn’t be?

I don't claim to be special. There are millions of other men like me. All I'm saying is that before you lable a guy as a misogynistic, bitter, entitled, creepy "nice guy," understand WHY he became that way, and understand that he is lonely and in pain.

Anyway, thank you tallgirlcolo and cl_countrygrlupnorth for your encouragement and support.




Edited 2/4/2007 11:23 pm ET by redonculous
iVillage Member
Registered: 11-21-2005
Sun, 02-04-2007 - 10:59pm

I was picked on in school, too.

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-14-2003
Mon, 02-05-2007 - 12:36am

Hon, if you somehow feel like you're the ONLY person that this crappola has happened to, think again.

*I* was also the picked on, loser girl, that no guy in his right mind wanted to date. Never had a date, never had a boyfriend, didn't get asked to prom, didn't get asked to homecoming, none of that stuff. Oh wait, I *DID* have a date to one homecoming - but he CANCELLED when he got a date with a cheerleader! HA! So you think only crap happens to YOU and you're the only one who has experienced rejection??

Didn't even kiss a guy until I was around 21. Didn't lose my virginity until 23. And didn't get a boyfriend until 26 (and even then, he was an alcoholic jerk).

Even now, I'm 35, not married, no kids. Probably never will have them or get married at this point. But I'll be DAMNED if I'm going to walk around and whine about it. What good does that do? Nothing - that's what. It serves no purpose other than to make you look pathetic. Because the other guys have WON. They've taken your self-esteem. Because you've let them.

On top of that, you're 20 years old. You're still way too stuck in your youth; it's still too fresh in your mind. You've got a lot of growing to do yet. Eventually you'll see that all of this garbage didn't really matter much in the big picture of things. But you do have to let go of the bitterness. It's not going to help you in the long run. And at this point, you can feel "wronged" all you want to, but no one's throwing you a pity party. This kind of sh&%$t happens to everyone.

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-06-2006
Mon, 02-05-2007 - 9:21am

Redonculous, Yes, it is hard. But that's life.

Both men and women experience the kinds of rejection and frustration that you are talking about. And amazingly, they survive.

The whole point of the site about "nice guys" is that people (not just guys) who go into life thinking that they are entitled to some reward for being "nice" are not really nice at all. I know a lot of "goody-good" girls who do the "but I am so nice, and people just take advantage of me," act. Well, don't be so nice. Don't embrace the roll of "victim" unless you really enjoy it.

You've come to ask questions about your love-life onto a board that is mostly women who are older than you. Presumably you wanted objective advice, not pity or endorsement of what is really a very narrow view of women. Presumably you didn't just come here to vent about how unfair girls are. Yet, you keep going on and on about how terrible everything is. Red, I say this as I would say it to my own kids: get over yourself.

You've gotten a lot of good advice here. Listen to it.

The most important bits of advice are:

(1) Don't be over anxious. Pursue friendship rather than dates. Let the dates come when they will.

(2) Be nice just to feel good about being nice (or don't be nice at all). When you are nice, don't expect a reward. Really effective relationships come when you don't expect a reward.

(3) If a girl turns you down, take it like an adult. Shrug your shoulders, go out with your buddies, have a good time in spite of her. (That is what a sensible girl would do when the guy stands her up or doesn't call.)

(4) Remember that you don't really know what "girls" want. You are just interpreting things according to your own biases and concerns. Believe us when we tell you that girls have feelings pretty much like guys do.

(5) Try to see each girl you meet as a person, not just an object of desire, a potential source of satisfaction for your loneliness and lust.

(6) Have faith in yourself and in your future. A lot of what you are going through is the result of inexperience. If you can manage to get over the bitterness, you will find that with time you will acquire the experience to be the smooth-talking, attractive young man you can be.

Good luck.

Elsa