Men and Women - Attraction Building

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-18-2007
Men and Women - Attraction Building
39
Mon, 06-18-2007 - 11:28pm

OK, so this is my first post on these forums and I would like to give you all a little background on what I would like to do here.

I am a 23 year old male. I feel like I cannot attract women for any length of time, which is rather sad since I am basically limited to having ONS and drunken encounters with women. Although I have more than my fair share of success with women in bars and clubs etc, I can't seem to translate that success into long term success in attracting a woman sufficiently to get into a serious, committed relationship. I have had a couple of term long relationships in the past but mostly I feel I just 'got lucky' in finding the right girls who were into me and developing the relationship. I feel I can attract a woman to me before she gets to know me, but then I usually mess it up before any real feelings can build.

I feel sad at the moment since I feel like I have so much to offer a woman and I want to be there for someone, as well as have someone there to be there for me. I am sick of going through life alone, not being able to experience all the wonderful things about life with someone special amd grow together with them. SO I HAVE DECIDED TO MAKE IT MY MISSION to CONSTANTLY IMPROVE MYSELF IN EVERY WAY UNTIL I FIND SOMEONE.

So there you have it. After a particularly disappointing date on Saturday night, where basically I had a great girl who I thought was attracted to me and I totally ruined it by my own actions and decisions. I have decided to devote all my energy to finding someone special.

I hope that you all can help me out here as I post my ideas, experiences and plans for the future in this area. I would certainly love to help you all out in decoding guys behavior.

OK - Attraction

What causes attraction in females, and how does this differ from males. I think this is really the key thing which need to learn. In order to analyze this properly, I need to make some pretty sweeping generalizations about men and women and the way that they behave. These generalizations are certainly not universally true, but for our purposes they have significant utility.

What makes a man attracted to a Woman?

A man can tell within a few seconds (or less), of meeting a woman whether he is attracted to a woman simply by looking at her. Men are much more turned on by looks than by anything else. As far as men are concerned, looks are, far and away, the most important thing re attraction. I don't know if women accept this or not, but it is the cold hard truth. Men are attracted, at least initially, solely by whether he feels physically attracted to a woman.

On the other hand. Women are attracted to a man by the way that he makes her feel. Don't get me wrong, looks play a part in how attracted a woman is to a man but that is only due to the feelings that a good looking man generates in a woman.

In order to attract woman, men need to understand this fact. Most men go around 'picking up' women the same way they would want to be 'picked up'. This is the wrong approach.

Anyway, most of you probably just TLDR'd this post, but I think I have something to offer here to you all, and I hope you will help me out in my dating quandary. I have a date next week with a girl that a coworker is setting me up with. I will post how it goes and hopefully you guys can help me out with some tips.

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-18-2007
Tue, 06-19-2007 - 11:56pm

Hi Cml, thanks for your reply.

I thought there were a few interesting things from what you wrote and I would like to address them

"Ok, first off, I think you should stop getting down on yourself about being 23 and not in a relationship. You even say you've had a couple in the past, so what more do you want??"

This is a fair point, although it is more a sense of feeling like I have no ability to attract woman that is making me want to improve myself so much. I don't want to become one of those 30 year old, 300 lb losers in the other thread. The girl in that thread is literally repulsed by the thought of having to deal with him. Not for me. No thank you.

"I'm 22, have had one almost two-year relationship and have been single for almost three and a half years. To me, it's not about improving myself, it's just flat-out luck."

I don't think this is correct. Attracting women, like many things in our lives, is a skill that can be learnt. It is not something that should be left to chance. Do you think our 300 lb, 30 year old friend in the other thread has been simply very unlucky? There is a reason which causes a woman to become attracted to a man, it is all to do with how she feels around him. One can learn to trigger those feelings

"You're ONLY 23...relax"
This is a fair point, I just like to make progress on areas where I feel that I need to. Like I said earlier, I want a special woman to take care of, protect, and share my life with.

"As for men being attracted differently than women...no, for me physical attraction and looks IS a big part of it. In the beginning, of course.....Women then respons based BOTH (well, I'm speaking for myself and other women I know, not everyone) based on his looks AND "the way he makes her feel," as you put it, though in a bar that's usually slim pickings/not really applicable."

Of course looks are important to women. But, it is not the looks themselves that make a woman attracted, but rather, how it makes her feel to be around someone who looks good. Good looks in a man can be offset very quickly by a weak personality, someone who doesn't make her feel the right way (acts nervous, indecisive, boring, lacking confidence etc) will quickly become unattractive to her. This is the major problem that I am dealing with and I think it has to do largely with negative self thoughts, I realized that I had begun to speak negatively about myself, particularly in relation to interactions with women.

The fact that it is the feelings that good looks generate in a woman which attract her was demonstrated by your responses in this thread. For some women, looks are important for others, they are pretty unimportant. With men, for all intents and purposes, looks are UNIVERSALLY important.

Another often overlooked but very important factor in all of this is that good looking men are often much more self confident than ugly men. Confidence is very sexy to a woman. Yet another reason why we guys need to look our best.

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-18-2007
Wed, 06-20-2007 - 12:09am

Well, it was basically a whole host of things which I did to screw things up:

1) My plans fell through due to weather and I had to put something together which wasn't exciting.

2) I got too drunk.

3) I hadn't cleaned my apartment beforehand, when we ended up sleeping there due to unfortunate circumstances, I didn't even have clean sheets. The place was a total dump. I thought about this afterwards though and it kind of made me realize that I probably don't like this girl all that much. With the girls that I have previously develoiped LTRs with, I would never have dreamed going on a date without planning to have my apartment spotless beforehand. I think really I am just kinda desperate, one year ago I maybe wouldn't have even gone on a date with this girl.

4) We went to a club and another guy sparked her interest (romantically, I'm not sure) but she was enoying his company more than mine - however I was kinda drunk at this stage.

5) Other random stuff where I failed to make her feel good, and probably made her feel bad.

Anyway, I am a little sad because this girl is really sweet. It is probably for the best anyway since she is not really the most logical or rational relationship material. As they say, attraction is not a choice.

Thanks for your replies

Avatar for cl_shywon
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-20-2003
Wed, 06-20-2007 - 12:37am

I think really I am just kinda desperate, one year ago I maybe wouldn't have even gone on a date with this girl.


I am a little sad because this girl is really sweet.


Hmm..I'm interested as to why you can write both of these statements in the same post.

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-18-2007
Wed, 06-20-2007 - 2:08am

I don't see why you don't understand. I don't feel the same way that I did one year ago. ONe year ago I wouldn't have gone out with her since I was more confident around my ability to attract women. In my current situation, I do not feel the same way but I am working hard to overcome this. I this particular case, the comment that you referred to had nothing to do with looks and more to do extraneous factors.

Irrespective of the above, I have made it no secret that men judge women almost exclusively on their looks. This is a fact of life. Any person who tries to tell you otherwise

a) doesn't understand men

b) is lying

If this makes you feel jaded about men that is unfortunate but that is the way it is. It is not something that men do on purpose, it is just how we are wired.

One thing to feel positive about though is that it is possible for alomst any woman to 'make herself hot'. It can take time, money and a huge effort, but it can usually be done.

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-30-2007
Wed, 06-20-2007 - 10:19am

Irrespective of the above, I have made it no secret that men judge women almost exclusively on their looks. This is a fact of life. Any person who tries to tell you otherwise

a) doesn't understand men

b) is lying
**************************

Written like a true 23 year old. I think I have decided I am the old "Father" of the board at a blazing 46 years of age . . and trust me it happens in the blink of an eye. I have discovered several things over those years. Number one, you are not ready for a LTR. Looks do not carry a relationship. You will have short firey "runs" that are 100% based on sex and will last until you or she finds the next "hottie" in line. It will happen every time, the fire always goes out and then nothing is left but the next adventure. And if you think I am wrong, you are lying to yourself, or just lack the experience to understand or know better.

You haven't a clue what attraction is based on what you have written . . . .your not looking deep enough to see it when it is there. I have no issue with "looks" being a part of some peoples package, well it is for all of us . . but defined in very different ways. Barbie doll rarely has the depth I need to ignite attraction. I need a woman to excite me. A woman is made of more than her but and bust. (-: You are missing a lot.

Sorry . . but you were arrogant enough to speak for me . . I see a boy who has yet to become a man. Don't do that, dont pretend to know what a man thinks. ((-: Said in a friendly way .. but you lack the understanding the impact your words have. It needs saying. You are going to blink your eyes one day, and if you don't figure this out you are going to be this sad old man in the bar these girls talk about. What was it that was just said about a speed date . . .38 . .could not get past his crows feet and how OLD he was . . LOL Whatever, you will have to figure this stuff out on your own . . but my advise . . look deeper. . .you are missing a lot, including better sex than you have had to date, guarantee it. You haven't "connected" yet. When you do the light comes on.



iVillage Member
Registered: 01-26-2006
Wed, 06-20-2007 - 10:32am

Well, I can understand your fear of being alone eventually...everyone gets that every once in a while. As for becoming the guy who sits in his house doing nothing, that's obviously under your control; my dad is one of those so I will NEVER be the same way. To me, that's not living life, that's watching other people live theirs.

>>I don't think this is correct. Attracting women, like many things in our lives, is a skill that can be learnt. It is not something that should be left to chance. Do you think our 300 lb, 30 year old friend in the other thread has been simply very unlucky? There is a reason which causes a woman to become attracted to a man, it is all to do with how she feels around him. One can learn to trigger those feelings

Well, I can half see your point here. But I also don't think the guy from the other thread isn't attracting women because he hasn't learned how, I think it's because, from the sound of it, he sits around in his house being antisocial and doesn't take care of himself. Now if you DO go out, make an effort, and take care of yourself, THAT'S when I think it's luck. If there's no chemistry with someone, yeah I might go out with them a few times if they're funny or charming or good at attracting women, as you say, but I still wouldn't be in a long-term relationship. You can't fake or force chemistry. You can learn how to better get a woman's attention, but after that, it should just been common sense, treating her right, being kind, fun, respectful, etc. THAT'S when your personality shines through. Maybe I'm just misunderstanding you, I'm not sure.

I think it's great that you want to meet someone, and at 23 you're in the minority for men (in my experience), but I think it's just something we have to wait out. I also respect that you're bettering yourself, but in my opinion, that should be something you do for yourself in general, not just to attract women. But good luck, really. :)

In regards to looks, are you saying then that if a woman is boring or has a bad personality but is cute/hot/whatever that "men" will still be attracted to her, want to talk to her?? is THAT the difference you see? I'm really just asking.

And you're right, confidence is very attractive. Cockiness, however, is not. I also don't mind a little self-deprication and/or humility either; if a man is willing to poke fun at himself, that wins points in my book. I agree that you shouldn't be TOO negative though, that's just going to send the girl running. :)

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-26-2006
Wed, 06-20-2007 - 10:40am

Oh man, you're going to get slaughtered for that. :)

However, unlike some others on this board, I do think you have good intentions, so I'll refrain. It's hard for me to believe, though, that a woman's personality has NO affect on a man's attraction to her. Maybe that's not what you're meaning, but that's what it sounds like...I've also known guys, mostly my guy friends, to go for women who are great, don't get me wrong, but definitely not "hot." I hate that word anyway. Occasionally it's nice to be called it, but definitely not an adjective I want permanently affixed to my appearance; men tend to call me beautiful or cute and I'm more than ok with that. These "hot" girls (and I mean the stereotypical bimbo-ish hot, which may not be what you're talking about), for the most part, are hot because they try to be and they often try to be because they, too, want one thing more than anything else. Go for the cute girls, trust me.

And please, please, PLEASE don't bitch when a woman treats you poorly (not you specifically, men in general) and has the personality of a napkin. THAT is why you get bored fast and THAT is the downside to overlooking personality.

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-26-2006
Wed, 06-20-2007 - 10:41am

>>Written like a true 23 year old.

LOL Thank you!! Like I've said about a billion times and like I SHOULD say everytime some idiot guy asks me for the thousandth time why I'm single: this, THIS is why I'm single!

Avatar for cl_shywon
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-20-2003
Wed, 06-20-2007 - 10:51am

Thank you, Elwood.

Avatar for cl_shywon
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-20-2003
Wed, 06-20-2007 - 10:58am

One thing to feel positive about though is that it is possible for alomst any woman to 'make herself hot'.


Gosh, I think I've heard this before on this board, in almost the exact same words.