'..you need to be dumb, skinny and beautiful to be loved by others'.
If by 'others' you mean 'potential male partners', then nope. Not dumb. Not skinny. Just not bigger than a UK size 10. And yes, beautiful. Also interesting, daring, not boring, not ordinary, easygoing, relaxed and funny. Sadly, it's true.
I again totally can relate to what you said. As I touched on previously I do not like to be the center of attention. Some girls HAVE to be the center of attention, but I am definitely not one of them. In fact this is why if I ever do get married that I do not want a "regular", large, church wedding like a lot of women because then I would be the center of attention and I am not at all comfortable with this.
As you mentioned also I do not want people talking about me concerning my weight. My grandmother and 2 aunts are very weight conscious, and although they have never said anything to my face, I know that everytime I go home after a visit they are propably talking about how fat I am. I know they have done this before when I was younger. One time when my family was visiting my grandma, I overheard my grandma chastising my mom for my weight - like my mom has shoved food down my mouth, so from then on I knew that my grandma does not like my weight. I am now the only heavy one in my family - my mom was overweight as well, but she lost a lot of weight when she was diagnosed with cancer, and like me my mom struggled with her weight the majority of her life. My mom has since passed away from the cancer, so I am an island.....in my family.
Thankfully for me I have two phenomenal brothers, and two phenomenal sister in laws who adore me as is, and they chastise me for talking down about myself concerning my weight, but I know they love me to death and just do not want to agree with the simple truth that men and society are very caught up about women and their weight.
Pooh - Yes, I TOTALLY KNOW that I use my weight as a cushion to keep men away. As I mentioned in an earlier post part of that weight cushion is pride - because if a man cannot want and love me the way I am then who needs him, and yes, the other big part is fear. As I said previously I am a good girl. I had a pretty sheltered life because I am the only girl in my family, and my mom and my brothers were always over protective of me. So male attention startles me and un-nerves me. I am very self confident when it comes to my intelligence and work abilities, I can talk to anyone about anything in my professional life, but I am a mess when trying to have a social conversation with a guy, and I let my insecurities that this guy cannot possibly be interested in me get in the way.
I have also been told by current male friends that they were intimidated by me when they first met me - I found this very amusing because of course I just see myself as being me, which is a friendly, fun loving person. The other item which I know is a turn off for some men is my independence. I am fiercely independent, and I know that I may have lost a previous boyfriend or two because I do not need, nor want to be taken care of. I can take care of myself, I just want an equal partnership. I also think that people and some men assume that because I am fat I am desperate and will settle for any guy which will look at me which is soooo not the case.
"My conclusion is that excepting a small minority: you need to be dumb, skinny and beautiful to be loved by others. This minority , value heart, brains and personality above anything else."
Again I totally see what you mean with this statement, and the only part I want to clarify for me is that I do agree that you seem to need to be dumb, skinny and beautiful to for a man to want you, but I know that I have not lost any friends because of my size - I hang out with good people, who just don't know any good men. Unfortunately the assumption is that if someone is overweight or fat they of course over eat and are lazy. I am not lazy, and I do not over eat. Do I eat the wrong foods from time to time - yes. I am disgustingly healthy, and I think a lot of people would be surprised to know I DO NOT have ANY health problems at all. My sister in law who is skinny has a lot of health issues, and again I find it amusing that society sees me as the lazy, fat girl, and my sister in law as the ideal, even though she has high cholesterol, eats a lot and does not exercise.
Okay well, again I think I was all over the place with this reply, I hope I didn't bore anyone too much.
Who has more "friends" . . .who has better? Who's friends stick around when the kids are born, and life gets difficult and boring? That stick around when you run out of money? (-: I pick my friends with great care. As I think you make an effort to do so as well.
And I agree totally with what you are saying. I do. My only point was that it seems like a little fear of some kind was there. I am a strong believer in going after what you want from life. With in reason of coarse. (I will never teach a spelling class. ) ((-: I simply feel like if it something you want, go for it.
A lot was posted since last night, and I have had a chance to sleep on the conversation yesterday. And I have noticed something about talking on the board, and it relates to exactly what I am looking for in real life back home. And it relates exactly to this conversation. We are blind to each other, yet people get noticed on this board. I wont be specific, but you see sad, nice, wise, hurtful, I see many things. I see it because of the simple self expression. The things that get "you" noticed in a room. Here it is 100% blind and 100% self expression. I do well in real rooms where conversation rules as well. It is the environment I get noticed in. (-:
I think all you are saying is you want to "keep" your interactions at that level, and filtering a few out is fine. I don't think you need to lose weight, I just could not understand how doing something you find enjoyable could be selling out. (-: My friend the professor sent me a thing on women's studies she wrote, pretty deep stuff, but I have a feeling you would enjoy reading it. She details this basic conversation in society in pain staking detail. If you would like, bump of and give me an email I could attach and send it to. I warn you, she is a PhD a few times over, when she writes to me at her lever, it is almost another language. (-: It would be over the weekend . .it was a year ago and it is burred in a folder someplace. I think I still have it anyway . . .I'll look after work.
I feel like I'm quicker to walk when it gets me somewhere or when I have to. It's also something that, for me, took some getting used to. I grew up in a small city with no public transit, so driving was a must (though I never actually did...I booked it out of there as soon as I turned 18 :) ). I went to college in Boston and - like I said - didn't drive, so walking everywhere was crucial, unless you wanted to wait absurd amounts of time for the subway line on campus. At first it really bothered me, I'd get bored just walking the 15 minutes home from class. Now I'm a converted, bona fide city girl and walking an hour for no good reason (in good weather!) is actually appealing to me. :) I never walk in my hometown, though, because there's nothing to so, nowhere to go! I've heard people in cities are typically healthier because they walk more.
Ok, enough random rambling. I don't buy into the whole, you HAVE to be thin thing, but for me it's about being healthy, caring about yourself. I'm lucky enough to have a psychotically high metabolism (sorry, I'm just trying to make a point), but I still eat better than the vast majority of people I know. Hell, I started drinking soy milk just for the hell of it, I'm definitely NOT a vegetarian, I just knew it was better for me.
As for guys coming out of the woodwork, guys can have bad intentions regardless, you just have to try to see through the BS. You might have to see through a little MORE BS, but still. And hey, if nothing else, it'll give you a confidence boost. :)
I can see where you feel like you're giving into the pressure from society, but walking is just good for you in general - whether or not you ever lose a pound.
If you can tell yourself you're making an investment in your long-term health by improving your cardiovascular health right now, would that help you feel like less of a sell-out?
Even if you are a healthy weight, exercise is a good thing in terms of disease prevention. Plus, you're out getting fresh air, sunshine (good for vitamin D), probably increasing your overall energy level, and you never know who you might meet when you're out on one of those walks, so you're potentially investing in your social life as well.
>>It makes me uncomfortable because I know that people who are smart are seen differently in a lot of ways. I do hide my intelligence sometimes simply because A) it's too much pressure- I don't know everything or thing fast all the time; and B) it intimidates some people. With men, it's a curse because most men just plain bore me.
I completely hear you! The guy I mentioned earlier that I dated this summer was a relatively smart guy, but once made fun of me for using the word "conducive." Uhh....not that difficult a word, buddy.
I've thought about getting my PhD (eventually) and I wonder how that would affect the way people, particularly men, see me. However, my intelligence is always something I've taken great pride in and I don't want to change that in myself. I suppose it just takes another intelligent secure man. Now someone has to tell me/us where those men ARE. :) I've said to my friends (who are all intelligent woman as well) that for ONCE I would love to date a guy as smart as/smarter than I am. It'd be refreshing.
Why does the health craze annoy you?? I'm honestly just curious, I think it's definitely a good turn for a not-so-healthy country.
I'm not one to eat cottage cheese (gross...why is that such a "diet" food, no wonder no one stays on diets), sprouts, and tofu just because it's the fashionable thing to be healthy, but I try to eat the best I possibly can while still ENJOYING my food. I think splurging is also healthy (like I mentioned before, I ate a whole damn pizza the other night because I was exhausted and stressed...plus it was just good :) ), but on the whole, I try to do well. I think the biggest misconception is that you have to sacrifice good food to diet. I LOVE food, and if I don't like something, I just won't eat it. What's the point??
I didn't read all the posts but just wanted to offer my comment (and in reference to the last post, I am one to eat cottage cheese, eat 2 pounds of it a day -LOVE THE STUFF!, but anyway, that's a whole other topic).
I'm 5'6" and 115 pounds, and get complimented all the time by men on my looks. If there is one thing they usually say to me, that's it. I do get hit on (and not trying to toot my own horn here, just making a point) when I go out but it's SO hard to know when a guy is showing interest if he's interested in ME or just my body. I've had numerous guys try and just use me for sex. Hell, a few have even come right out after a few dates and tell me that's all they want (at least their honest!).
Because of this though, I'm struggling with a lot of my own psychological issues. Over time I think I've come to place less and less value on my own personal worth as a person and have become way to wrapped up in trying to maintain my body. I exercise a lot and am super strict with my diet because I'm so scared if I am dating a guy and gain weight, he'll just leave because that's all he's interested in (since this has been largely my experience up to this point). I'm just now finally realizing that this is a big issue for me and why I push people away a lot.
So I guess what I'm trying to say, is that being a certain size or being thin is not all it's cracked up to be. When I see women doing crazy things to get thinner I just want to smack them (okay..well not smack but you know what I mean). I do have some eating disorder issues, not really eating disorder per say, but food obsessiveness (being so strict, etc) and I do feel a lot of this is because of all the attention I've gotten about my body. It's become 'who' I am. I didn't intend for it to be that way but it has. And dealing with obsessiveness like that is not a fun time at all and I would never EVER wish it upon someone else.
So to end the point, be happy with yourself and learn to love yourself as you are. When you find a good man, one who isn't after sex, he will love whatever body you have. Try and be healthy for your own personal well-being, if that means walking, great, it's fantastic exercise. Eat foods you enjoy but try and make them healthy but don't get too wrapped up in calorie counting and all that. It can be a dangerous road to go on that can lead to very bad things.
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'..you need to be dumb, skinny and beautiful to be loved by others'.
If by 'others' you mean 'potential male partners', then nope. Not dumb. Not skinny. Just not bigger than a UK size 10. And yes, beautiful. Also interesting, daring, not boring, not ordinary, easygoing, relaxed and funny. Sadly, it's true.
Edited 6/15/2007 8:28 am ET by happychick1004
I again totally can relate to what you said. As I touched on previously I do not like to be the center of attention. Some girls HAVE to be the center of attention, but I am definitely not one of them. In fact this is why if I ever do get married that I do not want a "regular", large, church wedding like a lot of women because then I would be the center of attention and I am not at all comfortable with this.
As you mentioned also I do not want people talking about me concerning my weight. My grandmother and 2 aunts are very weight conscious, and although they have never said anything to my face, I know that everytime I go home after a visit they are propably talking about how fat I am. I know they have done this before when I was younger. One time when my family was visiting my grandma, I overheard my grandma chastising my mom for my weight - like my mom has shoved food down my mouth, so from then on I knew that my grandma does not like my weight. I am now the only heavy one in my family - my mom was overweight as well, but she lost a lot of weight when she was diagnosed with cancer, and like me my mom struggled with her weight the majority of her life. My mom has since passed away from the cancer, so I am an island.....in my family.
Thankfully for me I have two phenomenal brothers, and two phenomenal sister in laws who adore me as is, and they chastise me for talking down about myself concerning my weight, but I know they love me to death and just do not want to agree with the simple truth that men and society are very caught up about women and their weight.
Pooh - Yes, I TOTALLY KNOW that I use my weight as a cushion to keep men away. As I mentioned in an earlier post part of that weight cushion is pride - because if a man cannot want and love me the way I am then who needs him, and yes, the other big part is fear. As I said previously I am a good girl. I had a pretty sheltered life because I am the only girl in my family, and my mom and my brothers were always over protective of me. So male attention startles me and un-nerves me. I am very self confident when it comes to my intelligence and work abilities, I can talk to anyone about anything in my professional life, but I am a mess when trying to have a social conversation with a guy, and I let my insecurities that this guy cannot possibly be interested in me get in the way.
I have also been told by current male friends that they were intimidated by me when they first met me - I found this very amusing because of course I just see myself as being me, which is a friendly, fun loving person. The other item which I know is a turn off for some men is my independence. I am fiercely independent, and I know that I may have lost a previous boyfriend or two because I do not need, nor want to be taken care of. I can take care of myself, I just want an equal partnership. I also think that people and some men assume that because I am fat I am desperate and will settle for any guy which will look at me which is soooo not the case.
"My conclusion is that excepting a small minority: you need to be dumb, skinny and beautiful to be loved by others. This minority , value heart, brains and personality above anything else."
Again I totally see what you mean with this statement, and the only part I want to clarify for me is that I do agree that you seem to need to be dumb, skinny and beautiful to for a man to want you, but I know that I have not lost any friends because of my size - I hang out with good people, who just don't know any good men. Unfortunately the assumption is that if someone is overweight or fat they of course over eat and are lazy. I am not lazy, and I do not over eat. Do I eat the wrong foods from time to time - yes. I am disgustingly healthy, and I think a lot of people would be surprised to know I DO NOT have ANY health problems at all. My sister in law who is skinny has a lot of health issues, and again I find it amusing that society sees me as the lazy, fat girl, and my sister in law as the ideal, even though she has high cholesterol, eats a lot and does not exercise.
Okay well, again I think I was all over the place with this reply, I hope I didn't bore anyone too much.
Rottie
Who has more "friends" . . .who has better? Who's friends stick around when the kids are born, and life gets difficult and boring? That stick around when you run out of money? (-: I pick my friends with great care. As I think you make an effort to do so as well.
And I agree totally with what you are saying. I do. My only point was that it seems like a little fear of some kind was there. I am a strong believer in going after what you want from life. With in reason of coarse. (I will never teach a spelling class. ) ((-: I simply feel like if it something you want, go for it.
A lot was posted since last night, and I have had a chance to sleep on the conversation yesterday. And I have noticed something about talking on the board, and it relates to exactly what I am looking for in real life back home. And it relates exactly to this conversation. We are blind to each other, yet people get noticed on this board. I wont be specific, but you see sad, nice, wise, hurtful, I see many things. I see it because of the simple self expression. The things that get "you" noticed in a room. Here it is 100% blind and 100% self expression. I do well in real rooms where conversation rules as well. It is the environment I get noticed in. (-:
I think all you are saying is you want to "keep" your interactions at that level, and filtering a few out is fine. I don't think you need to lose weight, I just could not understand how doing something you find enjoyable could be selling out. (-: My friend the professor sent me a thing on women's studies she wrote, pretty deep stuff, but I have a feeling you would enjoy reading it. She details this basic conversation in society in pain staking detail. If you would like, bump of and give me an email I could attach and send it to. I warn you, she is a PhD a few times over, when she writes to me at her lever, it is almost another language. (-: It would be over the weekend . .it was a year ago and it is burred in a folder someplace. I think I still have it anyway . . .I'll look after work.
Anyway, it is nice to meet you shy.
I feel like I'm quicker to walk when it gets me somewhere or when I have to. It's also something that, for me, took some getting used to. I grew up in a small city with no public transit, so driving was a must (though I never actually did...I booked it out of there as soon as I turned 18 :) ). I went to college in Boston and - like I said - didn't drive, so walking everywhere was crucial, unless you wanted to wait absurd amounts of time for the subway line on campus. At first it really bothered me, I'd get bored just walking the 15 minutes home from class. Now I'm a converted, bona fide city girl and walking an hour for no good reason (in good weather!) is actually appealing to me. :) I never walk in my hometown, though, because there's nothing to so, nowhere to go! I've heard people in cities are typically healthier because they walk more.
Ok, enough random rambling. I don't buy into the whole, you HAVE to be thin thing, but for me it's about being healthy, caring about yourself. I'm lucky enough to have a psychotically high metabolism (sorry, I'm just trying to make a point), but I still eat better than the vast majority of people I know. Hell, I started drinking soy milk just for the hell of it, I'm definitely NOT a vegetarian, I just knew it was better for me.
As for guys coming out of the woodwork, guys can have bad intentions regardless, you just have to try to see through the BS. You might have to see through a little MORE BS, but still. And hey, if nothing else, it'll give you a confidence boost. :)
I've thought about the cushion thing, but to be honest, I don't have enough now to really repel
I can see where you feel like you're giving into the pressure from society, but walking is just good for you in general - whether or not you ever lose a pound.
If you can tell yourself you're making an investment in your long-term health by improving your cardiovascular health right now, would that help you feel like less of a sell-out?
Even if you are a healthy weight, exercise is a good thing in terms of disease prevention. Plus, you're out getting fresh air, sunshine (good for vitamin D), probably increasing your overall energy level, and you never know who you might meet when you're out on one of those walks, so you're potentially investing in your social life as well.
AJ, enjoying life with C.
>>It makes me uncomfortable because I know that people who are smart are seen differently in a lot of ways. I do hide my intelligence sometimes simply because A) it's too much pressure- I don't know everything or thing fast all the time; and B) it intimidates some people. With men, it's a curse because most men just plain bore me.
I completely hear you! The guy I mentioned earlier that I dated this summer was a relatively smart guy, but once made fun of me for using the word "conducive." Uhh....not that difficult a word, buddy.
I've thought about getting my PhD (eventually) and I wonder how that would affect the way people, particularly men, see me. However, my intelligence is always something I've taken great pride in and I don't want to change that in myself. I suppose it just takes another intelligent secure man. Now someone has to tell me/us where those men ARE. :) I've said to my friends (who are all intelligent woman as well) that for ONCE I would love to date a guy as smart as/smarter than I am. It'd be refreshing.
See, you bring up something else.
Why does the health craze annoy you?? I'm honestly just curious, I think it's definitely a good turn for a not-so-healthy country.
I'm not one to eat cottage cheese (gross...why is that such a "diet" food, no wonder no one stays on diets), sprouts, and tofu just because it's the fashionable thing to be healthy, but I try to eat the best I possibly can while still ENJOYING my food. I think splurging is also healthy (like I mentioned before, I ate a whole damn pizza the other night because I was exhausted and stressed...plus it was just good :) ), but on the whole, I try to do well. I think the biggest misconception is that you have to sacrifice good food to diet. I LOVE food, and if I don't like something, I just won't eat it. What's the point??
I didn't read all the posts but just wanted to offer my comment (and in reference to the last post, I am one to eat cottage cheese, eat 2 pounds of it a day -LOVE THE STUFF!, but anyway, that's a whole other topic).
I'm 5'6" and 115 pounds, and get complimented all the time by men on my looks. If there is one thing they usually say to me, that's it. I do get hit on (and not trying to toot my own horn here, just making a point) when I go out but it's SO hard to know when a guy is showing interest if he's interested in ME or just my body. I've had numerous guys try and just use me for sex. Hell, a few have even come right out after a few dates and tell me that's all they want (at least their honest!).
Because of this though, I'm struggling with a lot of my own psychological issues. Over time I think I've come to place less and less value on my own personal worth as a person and have become way to wrapped up in trying to maintain my body. I exercise a lot and am super strict with my diet because I'm so scared if I am dating a guy and gain weight, he'll just leave because that's all he's interested in (since this has been largely my experience up to this point). I'm just now finally realizing that this is a big issue for me and why I push people away a lot.
So I guess what I'm trying to say, is that being a certain size or being thin is not all it's cracked up to be. When I see women doing crazy things to get thinner I just want to smack them (okay..well not smack but you know what I mean). I do have some eating disorder issues, not really eating disorder per say, but food obsessiveness (being so strict, etc) and I do feel a lot of this is because of all the attention I've gotten about my body. It's become 'who' I am. I didn't intend for it to be that way but it has. And dealing with obsessiveness like that is not a fun time at all and I would never EVER wish it upon someone else.
So to end the point, be happy with yourself and learn to love yourself as you are. When you find a good man, one who isn't after sex, he will love whatever body you have. Try and be healthy for your own personal well-being, if that means walking, great, it's fantastic exercise. Eat foods you enjoy but try and make them healthy but don't get too wrapped up in calorie counting and all that. It can be a dangerous road to go on that can lead to very bad things.
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