Struggling with small talk...
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| Sun, 01-28-2007 - 10:21pm |
Do women expect a guy who's approaching them to be interesting, witty and charming? My problem is that when I approach a girl and try talking to her, I usually get really nervous, can't think on my toes for anything interesting, witty or charming to say or any witty or snappy responses to anything she says, and I end up struggling just to get a little bit of boring small talk out (what's your name, what school do you go to, what are you reading, weather's nice today, etc.) and I think it makes girls think I'm a dull or boring guy.
You see, I was sitting at Starbucks today to do my homework, and as I was waiting for my drink, there was this pretty cute girl throwing looks towards me. At first, I didn't know if she was looking at me, the guy next to me, the guy behind me, so I didn't respond at first. But for the next 2 hours, I noticed her looking to my table a few times, her eyes following me when I got up to go to the bathroom or order another drink (she even smiled at me once) and so on. Then after about 2 hours, she stopped. I had guessed she had wanted me to come over and start talking to her but got tired of waiting (because I was too nervous to) and gave up.
I tried thinking for something witty or charming to say for about an HOUR, but I couldn't think of anything. Then when the table next to her cleared, I took my shot, layed my stuff next to her and said "Hey." She smiled and said "hi" back, and I could sense a bit of interest in the way she looked at me and in her voice, so I asked if she minded if I sat there and she said "not at all." So I sat down, asked her what she was reading (she was studying math) what her name was after I introduced myself, what her major was, what school she went to, if she went to Starbucks often and a few other things.
The thing was, when I was talking to her, I was so nervous, I could barely look her in the eye and talk at the same time (if I look a girl I like in the eye and talk at the same time, I stammer, my voice quivers and my eyes twitch) and I was struggling for conversation topics. There was about a 5 to 10 minute pause inbetween each subject I stated above, and needless to say, throughout this whole time, I couldn't think of anything charming or witty to say.
I think it's because of this that as I continued trying to talk with her, her interest in me was dropping rapidly. When I had first started talking to her, she was smiling, looking me in the eye, had a friendly sweet voice, but as time when on, she wasn't smiling anymore, wasn't looking me in the eye and had this sort of bored, exasperated voice. And each time, I felt more embarassed sitting next to her, so after a while, I got up and told her, "listen, I'm embarassed to admit this, but I sort of noticed you when I walked in here, and I've been trying to think of a clever way to ask you out, but I couldn't, so I'm going to be honest and say I think you're cute, you seem cool and interesting to talk to and if you ever have free time, I'd like to meet you again here or anywhere else sometime."
When I said this, I had stammered a few times, could only look her in the face half the time and the other half to my shoes or to the side, I'm pretty sure I was red faced and basically, it did not come out smoothley or charmingly or confidently. Her response was that she was really busy with college. I suggested before and after, but she said she didn't know. I suggested visiting her on campus, but she said she didn't think it was a good idea because she was so "busy." I was pretty desperate so in a last ditch effort, I said "No, it's okay. I understand, but if you ever have a slot of free time in the future, maybe we talk on the phone. Can I have your number." But she said she doesn't give out her number. I knew I had blown all my chances with her and I was devestatingly embarassed, so I told her I was sorry for wasting her time, that it was cool talking to her and said goodbye.
Thanks for taking the time to read my long post. As you can probably see, I have a few problems, so if you can help at all, what can I do to fix them? I want to forgo all the boring small talk, but I can't because it's my only choice. I don't know how to be charming or witty or smooth so my only options at the moment are boring nervous small talk or not talking to the girl at all. What can I say or do to become more witty and charming and confident to a girl I'm talking to? What do you all like to hear from a guy when he comes to talking to you for the first time?
Edited 1/28/2007 10:30 pm ET by redonculous

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It sounds like you have trouble reading other people's non-verbal "cues". By the time you worked up the nerve to ask her out, she was already giving you cues that she was not interested. Cutting your losses at that point would have been a good idea, but instead you put her in the increasingly uncomfortable position of having to turn you down multiple times.
I think the best thing for you to do would be as the other poster suggested--focus on getting comfortable with making small talk with people in general, so that when an opportunity like this comes up, you're more comfortable. And learn how to take no for an answer, graciously.
Sheri
Was she asking you questions back, or at least trying to keep the conversation going?
"My suggestion is to block out the attraction and try to have a conversation with the girl you are interested in as you would with anybody else, another guy, or girl you are not romantically interested in, and see where that goes. This is what I used to do to get over the nervousness I often felt around guys I liked. You also have to have the mindset that the girl you like at the moment is not the last girl on the planet, there are plenty of other girls if things don't work out with her. You have to have that same mindset once you get into a relationship too. Otherwise, you will get clingy and desperate, and that's never attractive and will drive most girls away."
That's what I try to do. Before I tried talking to her, I kept repeating in my head "she's just an ordinary person, nothing more, nothing special, no different from everyone else."
But then I get to speaking to her, and I can't shut up the voice in my head that says "This girl is going to think you're a creep, a loser or a pervert if you screw this up" because that's how girls think. And when I'm speaking to her, I know she's judging me on everything I say and do (and everything DON'T say and DON'T do) so that piles on more stress.
Plus there's the fact that if she does reject me, I'm also rejected by every other girl in the room (think about it, if you just saw a guy get shot down by a girl, would you say yes if he then came up and asked you out?) So even though there are plenty of other girls, that doesn't mean they'll say yes. It's like a death mark. If you fail with one girl, you fail with her friends, her sisters and every other girl who saw you fail.
All this piles on more stress and nervousness when talking to a girl. Besides, even if I do get rid of this nervousness, that still doesn't help me become more charming or witty. Like I said, what do you like to hear from a guy when he talks to you for the first time?
Make the exchange a quick one. Say hello, introduce yourself and then either ask for her number or give her yours. Make sure to tell her that you would like to take her out and then make your exit. If a girl is worth her weight in gold, she will see that you are nervous and will give you a chance. Also, in the future, don't ever apologize for wasting someones time. They may be digging you up to that point but if you make that remark it could be a turn-off.
You must get over these pre-conceived notions of yours about women. Just as all men are not alike, neither are we. True, some are gold diggers, some are judgmental, some have very high expectations, but not all of them. Trust me, a lot of girls have dated enough witty, charming, handsome, wealthy, a-holes that they welcome a nice guy who is so smitten that he's visibly nervous around them.
You asked how women like to be approached. I like a nice, normal, non-pretentious guy. Also, some people like talking about themselves but I do not so I don't enjoy being bombarded by tons of personal questions. I actually like to get to know him first, it puts me at ease. Then, I feel I can open up as well(I'm quite shy). Also, a good sense of humor is always a plus ; )
Edited 1/28/2007 11:45 pm ET by cfk_3
In response to northwestwanderer
>>>It sounds like you have trouble reading other people's non-verbal "cues". By the time you worked up the nerve to ask her out, she was already giving you cues that she was not interested. Cutting your losses at that point would have been a good idea, but instead you put her in the increasingly uncomfortable position of having to turn you down multiple times.
I think the best thing for you to do would be as the other poster suggested--focus on getting comfortable with making small talk with people in general, so that when an opportunity like this comes up, you're more comfortable. And learn how to take no for an answer, graciously.<<<
I guess, but I don’t want to learn how to take no for an answer. I want to learn what I can do so I don’t have to take no for an answer. What could I have done to make and keep her interested (so I wouldn‘t have to hear “no”)?
In response to cl-shywon
>>>Was she asking you questions back, or at least trying to keep the conversation going? If not, she's quite boring as well. It takes two to make a conversation, and it sounds like you were trying. If she wasn't responding, she either wasn't as interested as her actions made it seem or she was just as nervous. You did the right thing by just coming out and asking to see her again. Women appreciate honestly. However, next time take the first no for an answer. Continuing to prod only makes you look desperate.<<<
At first she was asking questions back, and she did seem interested at first because I could sense it in her voice, and the way she was looking at me. But each conversation just tapered off after a minute or 2 (it was really several short conversations with long pauses between them than 1 flowing conversation) Each time I tried to start a new conversation or keep the old one going, I could sense that interest fading away (she wasn’t asking questions back or looking me in the eye or smiling a lot). It really wouldn’t bother me if she’s boring or not. She’s cute and seemed to have a sweet/bubbly personality at first, and that’s all that really matters to me.
I really don’t think it was nervousness on HER part because she seemed happy when I first came talking to her and was more confident than I was. She’s an attractive young girl. What reason would she have to be nervous?
Ugh, it sounds like you have a serious confidence problem. Confidence is not something that can be taught. It has to come within you.
As far as what we would like to hear from guys for the first time, that’s different with every single girl. Something I want to hear is not necessarily what someone else would want to hear, aside from the fact that if most girls are like me, they don’t have a list of things they like to hear from a guy. It has to depend on the situation. Sometimes you have to just come out and say what’s on your mind without worrying too much about rejection or how you might look to the other people in the room. Something that works for me is when a guy says to me, “hey, you caught my eye ever since you walked in with your friends, I would like to get to know you a little better if you are single and interested, can I buy you a drink?” That tells me that the guy is confident and self-assured, he cuts straight to the chase without me having to guess where the conversation is going. But keep the conversation short and sweet, somewhere in the range of 5-10 minutes. So what’s your name, what do you do, where do you go to school, oh, I know someone who went to school there, what do you study, who are you rooting for in the superbowl, are you into sport, etc. etc. etc. I mean, there are tons of things you can talk about in those 5-10 minutes. Then say, hey, I enjoyed talking to you, can I call you sometime so we can talk more or go out on a date? If the girl says yes, great. If no, then take the rejection graciously and walk away. Don’t get upset and demand an explanation or ask again.
You don’t have to be witty or charming for a girl to like you. When I met my boyfriend for the first time through mutual friends, he wasn’t charming at all. He was saying all the wrong things it actually turned comical. I later found out that he was being dumb on purpose to get my attention. But that’s not the point. I ended up liking him even though he was the opposite of charming. There is no explanation for that spark unique between two people.
You have to do what works for you, and be yourself. One day, a girl is going to find your shyness and awkwardness cute and endearing and fall in love with you. You just have to be patient.
>>>You have to do what works for you, and be yourself. One day, a girl is going to find your shyness and awkwardness cute and endearing and fall in love with you. You just have to be patient.<<<
I really appreciate your advice, and I'm not bashing you or anything but this part really bothers me.
Basically what "be yourself" and "be patient" tells me is "keep doing what you're doing even if it doesn't work" and "sit on your @$$ and wait for everything you want in life to come to you instead of going out and grab/make/earn it."
Why should I do that? This doesn't work for school, careers, business, science or anything else in life, so why would it work for dating?
I don't want to be myself. Being myself means being a guy who's shy, awkward and lonely because of it. I want to be a guy who's charming, witty, humorous, confident and can light that spark in girls. Please help me become that guy.
Well, you're *never* going to succeed 100% of the time at *anything*, so learning how to handle rejection is important.
It sounds like in this instance she was initially receptive but then decided you weren't a good fit for. Oh well--it happens! You might have increased the chances of success by having a smoother conversation flow rather than long pauses but not necessarily. Someone else will be a better fit for you, but you may as well get as much practice as you can talking to people so that you're more comfortable with a wider variety of people.
Sheri
I think your "problem" is you are too nervous, and you come across that way.
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