Why am I a misogynist?

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-07-2006
Why am I a misogynist?
56
Mon, 02-19-2007 - 1:19pm

I'm tired of people telling me on this board I'm a misogynist, that I hate women, that I'm whiny, emascualted, etc. I don't understand what I'm doing wrong.

I'm upset that I can't get a girl to want me. I'm upset that I can barely get a single date that doesn't end anywhere, or that I can't even get a drunken hookup at a party. I feel utterly lonely and frustrated because of it. I feel let down and disappointed for all those times growing up when I tried being there for a girl hoping that she'd give herself to me one day out of appreciation and it never happened.

I came to a woman's board for insight on how women think and feel so that I can use that knowledge to hopefully learn what it takes to get a girl interested in me. Why does that make me a bad person?

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iVillage Member
Registered: 07-30-2004
Mon, 02-19-2007 - 2:46pm

Have you learned anything at all? I think that you should write an essay about all the things that you have learned by reading the posts of people on this board. You should submit it to us so that we will have some way of knowing that you are actually reading our posts. You seem to ignore everything that anyone else says. You keep asking the same stupid questions when you have already been given a cornucopia of diverse and informative opinions. If you will not listen, than why are you asking? WHat more could anyone say that might affect your thought process? I have already told you several times why I think that you are a misogynist. I will repost one of my old responses to you so that you will be spared the hard, tiresome work of finding it yourself or of having had to internalize it the first time.

Here you go: Redonc,

Many of your comments have a very mysogynistic flavour. For example:

>I've seen MANY girls that guys would wrench and crack jokes about behind their backs..<
This is probably a way of taking power from women by implying that they are likely subject to mocking and cruel jokes.

>we men don't think like you do. We don't say one thing and do another<
this suggests that you believe that women are two-faced liars while men are not.

>she'll usually go after the most attractive man in the room<
here you accuse women of being shallow

>Most of the women who go out of their way to approach men are unattractive<
Once again you use a judgemental tone to attack insecurities and make people uncomfortable. Where is your evidence for this? I challenge you to find some. I am a guy, and this has not been my experience.

Here is what I think is going on. You accuse women of being judgemental and overly picky when it comes to prospective partners' social skills. You accuse women of only wanting guys with an edge or "badboys" as you lamented on another thread. This is the cliched "why do girls only date jerks (a**hls etc)" rant. Whenever this happens it usually means that the complainant is a jerk himself (for example, he hates women and has entitlement issues and a bitter self centred personality). The difference is that he is a jerk who lacks the confidence and assertiveness to act it out and so considers himself a 'nice guy'. Maybe if you are having experiences in which you talk to women and then get rejected it is because you said something that she did not like. Maybe you are being offensive. Maybe you are confusing men having to "say the right things, ask the right questions, make the right amount of eye contact, have the right kind of body language" with not being a desperate mysogynistic creep?

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-14-2003
Mon, 02-19-2007 - 3:06pm

>I came to a woman's board for insight on how women think and feel so that I can use that knowledge to hopefully learn what it takes to get a girl interested in me. Why does that make me a bad person?<

This doesn't make you a bad person. In fact, it's admirable of you. However...

>...all those times growing up when I tried being there for a girl hoping that she'd give herself to me one day out of appreciation...<

...this statement does. Or at least it's the beginnings of a bad person, or whatever you want to call it. "Give herself to you???" Come on. That's laughable. And why would she do that? Because you were "nice?" Because you were a "friend?"

Humpf. Some friend.

This means your "friendship" is false, and that could very well qualify you as a bad person and one of those "not-so-nice-guys" that women in general want to avoid.

You know what I was going to suggest earlier? I would suggest you just be a jerk from now on. Don't play the "nice guy" game anymore because, frankly, it's a lie and it hasn't worked for you. Did you ever see that 'Seinfeld' episode where George did the exact opposite of what he would normally do? And it worked for him? THAT's what you should do. You should start acting like you really feel. Just be a jerk. At least you'd be being honest.

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-14-2003
Mon, 02-19-2007 - 4:30pm

I wanted to add this thought as well...

I was also disturbed by one of your statements in a previous post... something about how you didn't see how men and women could ever be "friends" because guys scratch, burp, fart, etc., therefore they can't relate to each other.

You seem to see things in very narrow black and white. Personally speaking, my male (straight and platonic) friends would be amused by your post as well to find out that they had been reduced to nothing more than a scratching bodily function! Believe it or not, men and women have many of the same interests, and CAN share ideas in a non-sexual manner.

Obviously you see it that way, but a whole lot of people just don't and it's very odd to read a thought as such.

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-21-2005
Mon, 02-19-2007 - 4:38pm

I don't believe in the concept that men and women can't be "just friends," either.

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-27-2004
Mon, 02-19-2007 - 5:53pm
I believe that you just have a lot of anger and therefore make asssumptions and take things out on women, anger that does you no good and you are only hurting yourself in this sense. People on this board are just trying to tell it to you like it is. I think you want sympathy and people to agree with your angry statements. I understand your dating frustrations, but what you are thinking is irrational and doesn't help you out in any way shape or form. Being angry only hurts you and not others and will just make your dating life more difficult. Accepting things as they are and trying to be a better person and not judge women who you don't know is a better way of handling things.
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Mon, 02-19-2007 - 9:18pm
I may not be the best person to comment on misogyny, but some of your comments do sound alarming. Now, while I am not a psychologist and cannot help you, I will repeat what a quick friend -- a player -- once told me: You can hate the game but not the men nor the women who play it.
iVillage Member
Registered: 12-07-2006
Mon, 02-19-2007 - 11:45pm

>>>You seem to ignore everything that anyone else says. You keep asking the same stupid questions when you have already been given a cornucopia of diverse and informative opinions.<<<

I actually haven’t. I’ve been told I need to flirt. When I asked how do I flirt, I got no answer except for “you have to learn that on your own.” I’ve been told I need to be charming, but when I asked how to be charming, I was told “you can’t learn on the internet.” I was told I need to be confident. I asked how do I become confident, but once again I received “you have to learn that on your own.”

I’ve received a lot of vague, general advice but you cannot deny that most of my requests for greater detail have gone unanswered.

>>>this suggests that you believe that women are two-faced liars while men are not.<<<

I’m accusing GIRLS (not women) of being confused and naïve.

>>>here you accuse women of being shallow<<<

I’m accusing GIRLS (not women) of being shallow.

>>>Once again you use a judgemental tone to attack insecurities and make people uncomfortable. Where is your evidence for this? I challenge you to find some. I am a guy, and this has not been my experience.<<<

I’ve witnessed it happen to my friends and other random guys at parties and clubs and such. From what I witnessed, the girls who went out of their way to approach guys weren’t very attractive, and I was lamenting why more attractive women can take the initiative approach.

>>>Here is what I think is going on. You accuse women of being judgemental and overly picky when it comes to prospective partners' social skills. You accuse women of only wanting guys with an edge or "badboys" as you lamented on another thread. This is the cliched "why do girls only date jerks (a**hls etc)" rant. Whenever this happens it usually means that the complainant is a jerk himself (for example, he hates women and has entitlement issues and a bitter self centred personality). The difference is that he is a jerk who lacks the confidence and assertiveness to act it out and so considers himself a 'nice guy'. Maybe if you are having experiences in which you talk to women and then get rejected it is because you said something that she did not like. Maybe you are being offensive. Maybe you are confusing men having to "say the right things, ask the right questions, make the right amount of eye contact, have the right kind of body language" with not being a desperate mysogynistic creep?<<<

What have I done that jerkish? Why is a guy who laments that girls don’t like him is misogynistic? He may be frustrated with the things girls say and do, trying to comply with their (apparent) desires but get nowhere with it, but that doesn’t mean he hates women. Why would he want to get with them if he did?

How would you react phatgenes? How would you feel if you knew a girl for 10 months, and the only times when you talked was when she called you (i.e. she picks up the phone to call you) to complain about a fight with her sister or she suspicious her boyfriend is cheating, and you like her all that time and she never returns the interest? How would you feel if this happened to you 4 or 5 times? How would you feel if the only date you’ve had in months calls and cancels with some flimsy excuse? How would you feel if girls barely ever looked your way or talked to you?

I bet you’d have a very different tone, so tell me, what’s so special about you? Why are you so hi and mighty above me? Why do you feel the need to assail me on every thread when you NOTHING about me in real life? Why don’t you tell me a little about yourself for once?

Avatar for cfk_3
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-14-1999
Mon, 02-19-2007 - 11:50pm
phatgenes, I don't think he's an mysogynistic creep, I think that he is skilled at pushing buttons and enjoys the attention he gets as a result. He knows he's gotten good advice here, how to's, it's all but been spelled out for him. No, wait, it HAS been spelled out for him. He's been spoon fed good tips for picking up women. I think it's time for the ladies here to nudge him out of the nest and allow him to fly on his own ; )
iVillage Member
Registered: 12-07-2006
Mon, 02-19-2007 - 11:59pm

>>>...this statement does. Or at least it's the beginnings of a bad person, or whatever you want to call it. "Give herself to you???" Come on. That's laughable. And why would she do that? Because you were "nice?" Because you were a "friend?" <<<

Because I was there for her. Because I gave her validation and emotional support when she was feeling vulnerable or doubtful. Because I’d take her out, be kind to her, be loyal to her, be honest with her and so on.

>>>Humpf. Some friend. <<<

So I’m not supposed to be attracted to a female anymore just because I start talking to her regularly? I’m supposed to ignore my nature and stop seeing her sexually?

This is what I don’t understand. Please, someone, tell me why SPECIFICALLY it is wrong for a male to desire a female friend?

>>>This means your "friendship" is false, and that could very well qualify you as a bad person and one of those "not-so-nice-guys" that women in general want to avoid.<<<

You, and the women of heartlessbitches.com, have this notion that somewhere there are men going “Haha! I will lie to her, become her friend, then she will sleep with me and I will dump her the next day! Haha!”

Not a single guy does this. No guy becomes a girl’s friend out of malice or a desire to deceive. We do it because we genuinely believe that’s how love is won. I genuinely liked all the girls I was just friends with. We do is because we are told be movies, television, books, and even by you girls and women that “I want a nice guy,” “I want a guy who’s sensitive,” “I want a guy who doesn’t see me sexually,” “I want a guy who’ll let me open up those things,” and so on and so forth. So how are we supposed to take that except but to believe it and try to offer those things?

>>>You know what I was going to suggest earlier? I would suggest you just be a jerk from now on. Don't play the "nice guy" game anymore because, frankly, it's a lie and it hasn't worked for you. Did you ever see that 'Seinfeld' episode where George did the exact opposite of what he would normally do? And it worked for him? THAT's what you should do. You should start acting like you really feel. Just be a jerk. At least you'd be being honest.<<<

So how do I treat girls badly? How do I become a jerk? Whenever I meet a girl, I have an uncontrollable urge to treat her like gold. When a girls goes out of her way to talk to me, I can’t help but feel like I have to repay her and that the only way she’ll stay even remotely interested in me is by complimenting her, pouring all my time and attention directly on her, take her out, buy her dinner, buy her gifts, even if she hasn’t demonstrated she deserves it. How can I treat a girl badly when every time I talk to a girl, I feel like I have to treat her like a queen?

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-07-2006
Tue, 02-20-2007 - 12:04am

>>>phatgenes, I don't think he's an mysogynistic creep, I think that he is skilled at pushing buttons and enjoys the attention he gets as a result. He knows he's gotten good advice here, how to's, it's all but been spelled out for him. No, wait, it HAS been spelled out for him. He's been spoon fed good tips for picking up women. I think it's time for the ladies here to nudge him out of the nest and allow him to fly on his own ; )<<<

Not really. I only have about 5 threads on here and a good half of each thread was justifying myself and defending my goals and desires from people like phatgenes and feisty. Like I said, I've read through all my threads, and I was never once told HOW to be charming. I was never told once HOW to be confident. I was never told HOW to flirt.

I was only told I had to be charming, confident and flirt.

I knew I had to be charming, confident and flirt BEFORE I joined these forums.




Edited 2/20/2007 12:18 am ET by redonculous

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