why I'm NOT "looking for love"
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| Sun, 04-08-2007 - 12:39am |
As most of you know, I've stated repeatedly that my main goal right now is just trying to hookup with girls and to try and pursue casual sex; that I don't want a serious relationship, and that I'm not looking to fall in love or to find "the one." For those of you who have seriously taken the time to give me advice, I thank you, but at the same time, I can't help but feel like there is a strong undercurrent of resentment and disrespect for the fact that I'm only looking for sex and not love. I can't help but think that if I came here asking how to find a nice, intelligent girl to fall in love with instead of just someone to shack-up with, not really caring who she is or what she's like, you'd all cheer and encourage me, and I don't think that's fair or reasonable.
I've done my best to defend my goals, but I still can't help but feel like that undercurrent is still there, so all I can do is offer 1 final defense. I remember reading this article a woman wrote about online dating in the paper a couple of months ago. Unfortunately, I couldn't cite it since I've forgotten the author or title, but I remember the main points vividly.
She talked about how she dated dozens of men she met online through a dating service site, and she ended up not liking any of them. She said that with many of the older men she dated, especially the divorced ones, she felt a strong sense of "sadness and anger" inside of them, which turned her off to them. However, she says she didn't blame them for feeling that way.
She said she had a theory that the reason so many men grow up to be cold and bitter is because they "never got to have all the sex they wanted to"; that they didn't get a lot of attention from girls when they were younger, and never got to "bag those girls with the willowy hair and perky breasts in college" (or something along those lines, that they jumped into monogamy too early and got stuck in miserable relationships that for too long they were afraid to escape because there was no one else to escape to, and that's how she closed her article. It was a very sobering and depressing read.
So do you see why I only want to have casual sex? I don't want to "look for love" because I'm afraid that I will confuse my feelings of loneliness and desperation with feelings of love and latch onto the first and only girl to really like me, that I'll let her treat me like dirt because I'll be too afraid of being alone again and that I'll end up in a miserable relationship. Not only that, but I KNOW I'm going to constantly wonder if I missed out by not hooking up with more girls and that constant curiosity and mystery will only be a source of frustration and disappointment to me. I don't think a man ever said on his death bed, "God, I wish I didn't sleep with so many women when I was younger."
So can you understand now why I'm dead-set against pursuing a relationship or looking for true love? Can you understand now why I don't want to find a girlfriend or get married? I don't know what more I can say in my defense, so is this something you can respect?
Edited 4/8/2007 12:40 am ET by redonculous
Edited 4/8/2007 12:41 am ET by redonculous

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>>>You "KNOW" it, huh? If you "KNOW" it, then how come you can't figure out how to accomplish it?<<<
I don't know how to explain it. Imagine that you've been locked in a cold, dark room for all your life, and the only way in is a huge, iron door. You didn't know what was on the other side, but you could see light coming in from under the door. Wouldn't you KNOW that what was on the other side of the door was much much better than your dark, little room? Wouldn't you be desperate to get out and see what it was like? Wouldn't you cry out for a key to open that door?
That's the best I can explain it. Do you understand what I mean?
>>>"Pissed off" is one of the most unattractive qualities I've ever seen in a person, male or female. I can GUARANTEE you that your "pissed-off-ness" is apparent to the women you're trying to hook up with.<<<
I don't think so. I never show this side of me to anyone I know or meet in person. And besides, on the few occasions I have actually been out with a girl, I was just so stoked to be out with a with a girl. I did my best to smile, compliment her, agree with every thing she says. How could she possibly look past that and see the pain and frustration I have when she knew nothing about me?
>>>This isn't about developing relationships and "getting in touch with your feelings" - this is about the basic social skills that you are lacking. Even if you only want sex, you still need social skills, unless you are wealthy or look like a male supermodel. You can only do so much about your physical appearance, and you've stated that you do not have a lot of money, so that leaves your personality, which needs work.<<<
I don't have money for a therapist. And besides, a therapist is meant for people who are depressed or psychotic or have anger management issues and the such. How can he possibly help people develop their social skills? What does his profession have anything to do with learning what to do or say to be more charismatic and charming and witty?
>>>You keep saying that you've asked questions we have not answered. We HAVE answered them; you just don't like the answers we gave you.<<<
There are a few things that haven't been answered. I've repeatedly asked how sleeping casually with a girl is "using" her but that's never been answered. And I just want to know if you all agree with me when I say that you shouldn't have to trade anything for sex, and that prostitution and dating aren't really all that different?
Edited 4/17/2007 6:54 pm ET by redonculous
You are misinformed as to what counseling/therapy is for. Sure, it's useful for serious issues like the ones you mention but it's also helpful for people who just want to deal with life's challenges better. Think of it more like coaching. With the right counselor, it has a LOT to do with the type of help you're looking for. A good counselor might role play with you or even give you script to use to help you in social situations. And as far as money, if you're in school, that shouldn't be an issue--what about the school counselors?
As for the "using" thing, yes it has been answered but yet again, it's only "using" if you're not upfront with the woman about the fact that you're just looking for casual sex. But if you're pretending to be friends with a woman just to get her to sleep with you, then that's "using" because you're not being honest with them. The problem, as has been said over and over and over again, is that not many women are comfortable with casual sex for its own sake. So that's going to limit yor chances drastically because the pool of potential partners is small, and there's a lot of competition for those women.
As for your 2nd question, no, I don't agree that prostitution and dating are even remotely similar.
>>I wish, but no. I wanted to be in a relationship with those girls, but even if they didn't want a relationship, I would have been perfectly happy to have hooked up with them, even just once. But all they wanted was someone to bitch about their silly girl-drama to, but and matter how much time and effort I put in, they never wanted to date me, hook up with me or even give me a kiss. My first and only kiss was 2 years ago.<<
Ok there is fine line when it comes to listening. If you do too much of it you'll get viewed as a brother or a best friend. You have to do an equal amount of talking. When girls get to talking about "silly girl drama" they will continue to do it as long as you let them. It doesn't mean tell them to stop right there or shut up it means steering them into the direction of keeping them talking but to get off the "silly girl drama" Three things to remember movies, music, books. Chances are she'll like one. Get her into a conversation rather than just listening to her bitch about whatever. Get her to talk about something positive. And you make sure you talk about something positive. Talk about yourself. If she makes mention of something she likes, agree or disagree and tell her why. Its conversation and its not all about her. this makes her think of you as something other than a big ear.
>>I know, which is why I have asked what can I do or say to be that guy normal girls will try having a ONS only once or twice with?<<
Girls don't try to have ONSs. Girls end up with ONSs unless your Justin Timberlake. Girls get ONSs because its better than nothing usually. they want the guy, the guy won't give her the time of day, they sleep together, = ONS. You either have it or you don't . Guys don't walk up to girls, say or do something, and they end up with tail. Chances are you will end up with a ONS when you are of drinking age. That's how a lot of them happen and than will happen as you both get drunker and closer on the dance floor. Soon enough you'll be kissing and than later ....well there you go.
>>Possibly not, but could you atleast tell me what those guys said to those girls that was very smooth and got them to believe they actually cared for her?>>
See above. And as a side note, these guys aren't saying anything to deceive the girl. Very few of them will say "I really like you" or anything to that effect to make the girl *think* the guy likes them. The guy usually just pays attention to her. He makes her believe he cares for her by making her the only thing in his focus at the time. But this only works when the guy is usually otherwise engaged. Let me explain in scenario. Lets say Jack is a jock. Jack is smart, athletic, relatively good looking but not model gorgeous. Jack has a lot of friends that are around him ALL the time, he is never alone. Jill has class with Jack and he usually casually talks to her during class. Nothing major he'll make a comment about the weather or that he thinks the professors hair looks weird today. Jill is infatuated with Jack and puts herself in Jack's line of sight all the time but Jack is never alone and rarely notices Jill. Jack and Jill end up at a party together and Jack recognizes Jill from class and says something about finishing the reading. Suddenly Jack is alone and paying attention to Jill. They continue talking, mostly about class and than about some people at the party, where they live on campus, etc. Jack's friends come around and he shoo's them away making Jill think that Jack is really into her because he suddenly paying all of his otherwise divided attention to her. After he offeres to get her another drink he might ask her to play a drinking game with his friends or go to a different party. All the while paying attention only to her. they are on the same beer pong team, sit next to each other during flip cup, whatever. As the night goes on he'll probably say something like "I've noticed you in class, you're really pretty". Jill will flip on the inside. They are well on their way. by the end of the night Jack will try to kiss Jill. She might let him, she might not. This is make or break time. Some girls will fall for it. However, Jill is smart and will realize that Jack is a player and not allow him to kiss her. His game is over. However, he will try again and again because he doesn't want to seem like he failed. This might get him the score. Scenario B - Jill falls for it, kisses him and continues to let things go further. the ONS occurs and Jill feels like crap when the next weekend comes around and Jack is spending all the time Julie and paying her all the attention. Jill will feel like crap. When some other guy comes around next time Jill will not be so naive and not let it happen again. ONSs are slippery slopes. A lot of things need to fall into place. But believe me Jack doesn't quite know what attracts girls to him. He's cocky enough to tell you that it's because he's so good looking but really deep down, he has no idea. And really he usually does feel bad about what he did to the Jill's of his life, but he'd never tell anyone that, until he's older with a stable girlfriend that he loves a lot than he'll open up and say it was fun but it's not really all its cracked up to be.
>>I already go to the gym about 4 times a week and do a lot of mountain sports. Why hasn't that worked?<<
I'm just saying it to get you to focus on something other than sex. Like I said don't put so much emphasis on it. You'll get what you're going to get when you get it.
>>>But if you're pretending to be friends with a woman just to get her to sleep with you, then that's "using" because you're not being honest with them.<<<
I don't know how many times more I can explain this.
NO MAN BECOMES FRIENDS WITH A WOMAN HE'S ATTRACTED TO TO DECEIVE HER! Many of you have said it's sleazy and deceitful for a man to try to become friends with a woman when he has a driven desire to hook up with her, but we don't do it out of deceitful or malicious intent. No man has even rubbed his hands together going, "HAHA! I'll become her friend, pretend I care about her feelings, and THEN she'll be mind!"
We do it because we believe that's what YOU want. We do it because we believe that's actually how relationships form; you become friends with a woman, you one day hook up and you're an item. And why should we believe otherwise? It's what media, television and you women have told us for the past 20, 30 years.
You want men to stop acting like your friend to hook up with you? Then stop saying you want men to be your friends!
No, that's not how it works. Friendships are, by definition, PLATONIC. No sex is involved or expected. So if I'm friends with a guy, it's because I'm not interested in him romantically or there's another reason why we can't be involved romantically.
If you want to be romantically involved with someone, then ask them out, treat them romantically. Once in a great while, the friendship to dating thing might work--but it's by far the exception, not the rule. I don't know where you're getting that from anyway--that's sure not what I want (see Mark's thread in the section below about "friends first").
But you say you don't want a romance, anyway, so why are you even bringing this up? You just want to get laid. Friendship is not the route to that--you would be using the woman if you took that route.
You don't necessarily KNOW what's on the other side of that door. For all you know, it could be just a gigantic heap of radioactive waste that's creating the "light."
And besides, a therapist is meant for people who are depressed or psychotic or have anger management issues and the such. How can he possibly help people develop their social skills? What does his profession have anything to do with learning what to do or say to be more charismatic and charming and witty?
There you go again, first of all, poo-pooing a suggestion that was made. Secondly, if you've never BEEN to a therapist, then how can you possibly know what they do and don't do? You can't afford one, fine. But don't assume that you know what one can and can't help you with, because you just don't. There are MANY therapists that are trained to help people develop social skills. And not for nothing, but you said yourself RIGHT THERE that therapists are for people who have anger management issues...excuse me, but I think I hear the kettle calling...did you not tell us previously that you have a lot of anger because all the girls you "spent a lot of time and money on" wouldn't sleep with you?
I've repeatedly asked how sleeping casually with a girl is "using" her but that's never been answered.
Yes, it has, but you didn't like the answers you got, and you proceeded to argue with each person who answered it.
Edited 4/18/2007 12:07 am ET by cl-countrygrlupnorth
Edited 4/18/2007 12:09 am ET by cl-countrygrlupnorth
Well, this statement is rather contradictory of your previous protestations, don't you think? You've just dedicated an entire thread to making sure we all know you're not looking for a relationship. But just here, you speak of doing something "because that's how we believe relationships are formed."
*She said she had a theory that the reason so many men grow up to be cold and bitter is because they "never got to have all the sex they wanted to"; that they didn't get a lot of attention from girls when they were younger, and never got to "bag those girls with the willowy hair and perky breasts in college" (or something along those lines, that they jumped into monogamy too early and got stuck in miserable relationships that for too long they were afraid to escape because there was no one else to escape to, and that's how she closed her article. It was a very sobering and depressing read.*
Respectfully, the author of that article is FOS. Remember the old cliché about marriage being hard work? Trust me, you don't know the half of it. The reason those men grow up to be cold and bitter has nothing to do with whether they got to bang the girls with the willowy hair and perky breasts when they were younger, and everything to do with whether or not they (and their partners) are willing to do that work, to invest the effort into nurturing their relationship day in and day out, even on days when you might not much like each other. Furthermore, if banging those girls is only about satiating your physical lust, and not a celebration of your love for her as a woman, then banging them will do nothing to help teach you the relationship skills that you will need to nurture a real relationship, with a real woman, over the long haul. I'm sorry, but living a life of orgiastic hedonism now will have absolutely no bearing on whether or not you end up cold and bitter by the time you reach my age.
*So do you see why I only want to have casual sex? I don't want to "look for love" because I'm afraid that I will confuse my feelings of loneliness and desperation with feelings of love and latch onto the first and only girl to really like me, that I'll let her treat me like dirt because I'll be too afraid of being alone again and that I'll end up in a miserable relationship. Not only that, but I KNOW I'm going to constantly wonder if I missed out by not hooking up with more girls and that constant curiosity and mystery will only be a source of frustration and disappointment to me. I don't think a man ever said on his death bed, "God, I wish I didn't sleep with so many women when I was younger."*
Why do you think you'll be able to avoid confusing your feelings, simply because you're telling yourself at the outset that you're *only* looking for sex? Having sex is a powerful emotional experience, that can lead to the release of all kinds of feelings. Furthermore, your willingness (or lack thereof) to allow a partner to treat you like dirt has nothing to do with how many women you've slept with, and everything to do with your self confidence and belief in your own worth. If you honestly believe that your self worth is intimately associated with how many women you've slept with, then I'm afraid you're sorely mistaken, and are headed down a path towards a cold and lonely existence of an entirely different sort.
If you are open to the possibility of love, without being needy or desperate for it, then it will find you one day, on a Tuesday afternoon at 4 o'clock, when you are least expecting it. When it comes knocking, don't be afraid to open the door, paralyzed by a fear of not yet having slept with enough willowy haired, pert breasted women, and in so doing miss the opportunity of a lifetime, the opportunity to make the journey through life with a loving partner who completes you in the best possible sense.
My $0.02, and I'll now drag my middle aged, married butt back to the married sex board where I belong.
<<>>
Not even reprepresentative of men on these boards...spiceman and pianoguy where are you???
I think the horse has been beaten flipped around and been beaten a few more times, I just don't think this is ever going to be resolved to his satisfaction. We are talking in circles at this point.
Smile,
Deirdre
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