why I'm NOT "looking for love"
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| Sun, 04-08-2007 - 12:39am |
As most of you know, I've stated repeatedly that my main goal right now is just trying to hookup with girls and to try and pursue casual sex; that I don't want a serious relationship, and that I'm not looking to fall in love or to find "the one." For those of you who have seriously taken the time to give me advice, I thank you, but at the same time, I can't help but feel like there is a strong undercurrent of resentment and disrespect for the fact that I'm only looking for sex and not love. I can't help but think that if I came here asking how to find a nice, intelligent girl to fall in love with instead of just someone to shack-up with, not really caring who she is or what she's like, you'd all cheer and encourage me, and I don't think that's fair or reasonable.
I've done my best to defend my goals, but I still can't help but feel like that undercurrent is still there, so all I can do is offer 1 final defense. I remember reading this article a woman wrote about online dating in the paper a couple of months ago. Unfortunately, I couldn't cite it since I've forgotten the author or title, but I remember the main points vividly.
She talked about how she dated dozens of men she met online through a dating service site, and she ended up not liking any of them. She said that with many of the older men she dated, especially the divorced ones, she felt a strong sense of "sadness and anger" inside of them, which turned her off to them. However, she says she didn't blame them for feeling that way.
She said she had a theory that the reason so many men grow up to be cold and bitter is because they "never got to have all the sex they wanted to"; that they didn't get a lot of attention from girls when they were younger, and never got to "bag those girls with the willowy hair and perky breasts in college" (or something along those lines, that they jumped into monogamy too early and got stuck in miserable relationships that for too long they were afraid to escape because there was no one else to escape to, and that's how she closed her article. It was a very sobering and depressing read.
So do you see why I only want to have casual sex? I don't want to "look for love" because I'm afraid that I will confuse my feelings of loneliness and desperation with feelings of love and latch onto the first and only girl to really like me, that I'll let her treat me like dirt because I'll be too afraid of being alone again and that I'll end up in a miserable relationship. Not only that, but I KNOW I'm going to constantly wonder if I missed out by not hooking up with more girls and that constant curiosity and mystery will only be a source of frustration and disappointment to me. I don't think a man ever said on his death bed, "God, I wish I didn't sleep with so many women when I was younger."
So can you understand now why I'm dead-set against pursuing a relationship or looking for true love? Can you understand now why I don't want to find a girlfriend or get married? I don't know what more I can say in my defense, so is this something you can respect?
Edited 4/8/2007 12:40 am ET by redonculous
Edited 4/8/2007 12:41 am ET by redonculous

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I myself am a commitment-phobe and I fully admit it. And speaking from my point of view on the subject, given your young age, there is nothing wrong with having casual "hookups", many guys do it, though most guys are not as angry with women in general as you seem to be, which is what I think is the real issue that is rubbing people raw here.
Since you're going to do what you're going to do no matter what, I can only say that I hope that you can find out what's really going on with the opposite sex and why you're reaping what you're sowing (and that you realize exactly what it is that you ARE sowing in these conquests). If you continuously approach women with anger, bitterness, and resentment deep inside you, whether only with casual intentions or not, then all you will find in any type of relationship you choose to have will be meaningless and you will continue to get burned, in any way/shape/or form possible, because women (and people in general) can sense those feelings in another and will react in kind.
In the past, it looks like you haven't met the right kind of girl, and it certainly sounds like you were putting the wrong stuff/vibes out there, and therefore you received nothing in return. It's just sad that you're basing your opinions on everything and all women off of your short bad history with whatever kind of women/girls you've run into so far, and now you're guaranteeing yourself alot of frustration in the years to come. Is sex all that you TRULY seek? Is it some sort of strange revenge for all of the rejection you experienced in the past? Or do you know, really KNOW, that there is NO PART OF YOU that wants a meaningful connection with any woman, ever? Or are you too afraid to admit to yourself that you do want something meaningful, but that you are afraid to be vulnerable to getting hurt again?
I'm just wondering. I am a commitment-phobe, so I understand any fears that stem from getting close to someone. I just don't understand why you're so angry with women in general. We're not all bad, trust me, I know. ;)
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>>>No, that's not how it works. Friendships are, by definition, PLATONIC. No sex is involved or expected. So if I'm friends with a guy, it's because I'm not interested in him romantically or there's another reason why we can't be involved romantically.
If you want to be romantically involved with someone, then ask them out, treat them romantically. Once in a great while, the friendship to dating thing might work--but it's by far the exception, not the rule. I don't know where you're getting that from anyway--that's sure not what I want (see Mark's thread in the section below about "friends first").
But you say you don't want a romance, anyway, so why are you even bringing this up? You just want to get laid. Friendship is not the route to that--you would be using the woman if you took that route.<<<
I'm bringing it up because this MYTH that "nice guys" are these sleazy, deceitful liars, needs to be dispelled. They are NOT. A guy who tried to be your friend but had a secret interest in you did it because he was MISLED to believe that you wanted him to be your friend before you went out with him. He wanted to be your friend because he hoped and believed it would one day grow into a relationship. He kept his intentions secret from you not out of deceit or malice, but out of fear; fear that you would deny him. He did it to wait for you to make the first move. He did nothing to spite you. He is a good man who's lonely and desperation drove him to a false path.
Do you understand this? Do you acknowledge this?
>>>We do it because we believe that's what YOU want. We do it because we believe that's actually how relationships form; you become friends with a woman, you one day hook up and you're an item.
Well, this statement is rather contradictory of your previous protestations, don't you think? You've just dedicated an entire thread to making sure we all know you're not looking for a relationship. But just here, you speak of doing something "because that's how we believe relationships are formed."<<<
I'm saying this is how I ONCE was. I told you, I genuinely used to care about girls. I used to really care for their personalities and emotions and thoughts and ideas and want relationships, but after it got me absolutely no where, that part of me whithered away. But I don't regret it. I say good ridance to that part of me.
Trying to be friends with a girl you're interested is wrong, I realize that now. But it's wrong only because it doesn't work and it's a waste of time, not because it's "sleazy" or "deceitful" or whatever those paranoid charlatans at heartlessbitches.com say.
>>>I myself am a commitment-phobe and I fully admit it. And speaking from my point of view on the subject, given your young age, there is nothing wrong with having casual "hookups", many guys do it, though most guys are not as angry with women in general as you seem to be, which is what I think is the real issue that is rubbing people raw here.
Since you're going to do what you're going to do no matter what, I can only say that I hope that you can find out what's really going on with the opposite sex and why you're reaping what you're sowing (and that you realize exactly what it is that you ARE sowing in these conquests). If you continuously approach women with anger, bitterness, and resentment deep inside you, whether only with casual intentions or not, then all you will find in any type of relationship you choose to have will be meaningless and you will continue to get burned, in any way/shape/or form possible, because women (and people in general) can sense those feelings in another and will react in kind.<<<
It's been said many times that women can sense how a man feels deep inside. Sure, I'm not the most charming of confident or witty guy when I talk to a girl, but how could she possibly sense all the pain and frustration I feel when she knows absolutely NOTHING about me?
Besides, all that pain and frustration, all that anger, bitterness and resentment would disappear INSTANTLY if a girl would just take an interest in me. I don't understand what I'm doing or saying to constantly be ignored or turned down by them.
>>>In the past, it looks like you haven't met the right kind of girl, and it certainly sounds like you were putting the wrong stuff/vibes out there, and therefore you received nothing in return. It's just sad that you're basing your opinions on everything and all women off of your short bad history with whatever kind of women/girls you've run into so far, and now you're guaranteeing yourself alot of frustration in the years to come.<<<
Like I said, I could I possibly NOT feel this way? Years of trying to get to know girls and get in touch with their emotions and feelings left me with nothing but rejection and loneliness. Ever since I was old enough to like girls, I've seen this cause-and-effect pattern and I can't help but feel this is how the world works. But it makes logical sense. How can I ignore logic?
>>>Is sex all that you TRULY seek? Is it some sort of strange revenge for all of the rejection you experienced in the past? Or do you know, really KNOW, that there is NO PART OF YOU that wants a meaningful connection with any woman, ever? Or are you too afraid to admit to yourself that you do want something meaningful, but that you are afraid to be vulnerable to getting hurt again?
I'm just wondering. I am a commitment-phobe, so I understand any fears that stem from getting close to someone.<<<
Why would it be revenge? I want her to desire and enjoy sex with me just as much as I do with her.
Yes, part of me is afraid of getting to close and burned, but I don't think it's an irrational fear. How many relationships end up with the couple living happily ever after for the rest of their lives? Maybe 1%? What happens to the other 99%? They all end, and I just don't want to put up with the heartbreak and pain that comes at the end of the vast majority of relationships this early in my life. I'm only 20, and already feel like I've already suffered enough heartbreak and disappointment for 1 life.
I'm just a young guy. Right now, I just want to enjoy sex while I'm young. I want to know what it's like to kiss a girl (my first and only time, we were drunk so we don't remember). I want to know what it's like to feel a naked breast. I want to know how another person's thighs feel against mine. Is that really so hard to understand?
>>>I just don't understand why you're so angry with women in general. We're not all bad, trust me, I know. ;)<<<
I KNOW what you're saying to be true, but it's just hard for me to FEEL that it's true. I've been either ignored or burned by so many girls, it's hard for me to imagine there are ones out there who'll be good to me and give me what I need.
Hi
I bet I get flamed for some of what I say here but since you didn't like any of the advice you were given so far I'll try telling you a way to get casual sex. There's a caveat though and you won't like that!!!
My first question: what do you look like? Yes its shallow and, no, appearance isn't everything, but if its casual sex you're after you're not going to get it if you look like Quasimodo!!
My first piece of advice. This may be bad form to say but I really don't think it'd be that bad an idea if you went to a prostitute. You seem to be completely and utterly obsessed with getting your end away. Maybe, if you've done it you'll be able to relax a bit more and since you won't be completely inexperienced you may feel more comfortable.
I think it would be a REALLY bad idea to lose your virginity on a one night stand. Just say you find a girl who is up for sleeping with you. Chances are, she'll have at least some sexual experience. Speaking from personal experience and that of my friends, the first time was a MUCH bigger deal. I've had quite a lot of one night stands (about 10 and I'm 30, oh and a girl!) but I would NEVER have lost it to a one night stand. As I got older and more experienced I got to the point where, if Mr Right wasn't coming along and I was in the mood, I'd have a ONS.
So, based on that hypothesis, the girl you have your ONS with is experienced and you are a virgin who is completely and utterly obsessed with just having sex. That is, quite simply a recipe for disaster. You might only last about two seconds. You might not even make it to that point.
Now this girl may be very nice, but she may also be very drunk and when you are a disappointment to her she may well say so meaning that you end up with even less self-confidence and an even bigger chip on your shoulder.
Since, after reading all the posts, it seems that you're not going to charm someone into bed, any girl you end up having a ONS with is likely to be someone who is doing it because they too want casual sex. They won't care about your feelings any more than you care about theirs. They won't be concerned with your enjoyment only their own (as will you) and therefore you will not get any encouragement or kindness and may end up getting laughed at.
Yep, that's horrible, but once you know that neither of you is going to date and there's no need to put on your best faces, people can be pretty nasty.
I think you need to either do as I suggested above and lose your virginity to a prostitute (you're paying her, she can't laugh at you) or calm down, get over the casual sex obsession and try and find a girlfriend who will make the first time pleasurable.
Once you're a little bit experienced I can give you a tip that, for many guys that I used to know, led to at least a different girl every week. Go and be a travel representative, working in resort and taking people on bar crawls, somewhere like Cancun. There are a LOT of girls who fall for the reps (I used to be one - its not the same for the girl reps!!) and we were constantly surprised by the amount of "tail" they all got!
Good luck!!
Sarah
xxx
>>>My first question: what do you look like? Yes its shallow and, no, appearance isn't everything, but if its casual sex you're after you're not going to get it if you look like Quasimodo!!<<<
I'm pretty short, and my face isn't the most handsome or good looking, but if there's one thing that I can confidently and positively say about myself, it's that I have an above-average physique (work out and a bit of muscle and a lot of definition) and fashion sense (I wear a lot of Hollister, Aeropostale, American Eagle) I would think that would be enough, but it's not getting me anywhere.
>>>My first piece of advice. This may be bad form to say but I really don't think it'd be that bad an idea if you went to a prostitute. You seem to be completely and utterly obsessed with getting your end away. Maybe, if you've done it you'll be able to relax a bit more and since you won't be completely inexperienced you may feel more comfortable.<<<
I'm sorry, but I will NEVER hire a prostitute. I believe prostitution is exploitative of both women AND men, and I believe you shouldn't have to pay for sex. I went to strip club once, and paid $50 for a lap dance. I couldn't enjoy it because the fact that I had to pay money for female, physical affection made me feel completely disgusted and ashamed of myself.
Besides, considering where I live, I doubt I could find a prostitute if I wanted one. And if I did, I'm pretty sure hiring one lands you of the Sex Offender's Registry in my state. Good luck to any guy getting laid with that death-mark over their head.
Edited 4/25/2007 11:51 am ET by redonculous
<<>>
It's not enough. Sorry to say, but you won't go out with average looking women you said yourself so why should girls settle for a not handsome or good looking guy just because you dress nice and have a good body. Not happening. Just like you won't settle for a hot body and a average looking girl, she won't settle for you neither, I think we've hit the crux of your problem. Your expecting to hook up with above average girls when you aren't above average yourself and if you aren't above average in the looks department then you at least better be confident, witty and charming to pull it off and from what you stated here you don't have that going for you either so it's not the girls that have the issue. The common denominator in this scenario seems to be the man in the mirror.
Smile,
Deirdre
Well, that's cool. I guess I'm thinking more along the lines of a ferry hop to Amsterdam - I forget you guys can't do that. (Not that I have! For that purpose.)
My point was more that if you have a one night stand and the girl laughs at you or is unkind, how will you feel and what do you think it will do to your confidence?
I'm sorry to say that you can't rely on having a good physique and dressing well. Girls can generally take themselves up a league by having a killer body (they may get called a BOBFOC - Body off Baywatch, Face off Crimewatch) but boys *seem* more likely to prefer an average faced girl with a great figure to a pretty-faced girl who's overweight. Girls don't really seem to feel the same way and, unfortunately for you, a LOT of girls are bothered about height. I'm only 5'2" and I *prefer* guys over 6 foot.
I'm not saying this to make you feel bad, just to make you be a bit realistic. If you are a "5" (and by the way I really don't like "rating" people but can't think of any way else to put it) you will find it easier to attract girls in the 4 to 6 range. Too bad if you like the girl whose a 9 - SHE'S interested in the guy who's a 9/10. Really attractive people don't owe it to the rest of us to have lower standards! If you like the hottest girl on campus then its pretty likely so will most of the other guys - including the hottest guy on campus!
Its not all about looks, not even when it comes to one night stands. The two things that can work in the less attractive guy's favour are that girls can often be "laughed into bed". Many guys have gone out with women who are way out of their league because they could make them laugh. The other characteristic is charisma. A charismatic bloke *seems* way better looking than he really is and everybody wants to be around him. Unfortunately, charisma's a bit indefinable. And, without wishing to be a b*tch, your posts don't really show the makings of a stand up comedian ;o)
Also, you seem, just in general, far too hung up on appearance. I don't just mean about your physique and clothes and the sort of girls you like. You mentioned in another post being ignored in high school etc and being able to prove something if you had slept with a lot of pretty girls. Who do you want to prove this to? You seem more interested in how people view you and what they think of you for having sex with loads of girls than you do with actually having sex!
Do you go out to meet girls with friends? Do they have more luck than you? I know this isn't going to be something you'll like to hear, but if they do and your friend is chatting someone up, start talking to *her* friend, even if she's not all that attractive. You won't feel so intimidated and you'll get some practice at flirting. If I'm out and my friend meets someone she likes I'm perfectly happy with a bit of harmless flirting with their friends, even if I have no intention of anything happening. Flirting itself can be fun and you seem to be forgetting that part of it.
There's no point in girls/women telling you what guys said to make them have a one night stand because it would make no sense whatsoever. I had one one night stand following a conversation about why my ex of 2 weeks was my ex and another after discussing which species of shark was "the best". If you try either of those, I can almost guarantee you'll fall flat on your face because neither topic of conversation was *why* I had the one-night stand. (Cuz I know you'll ask why, first guy I'd had a crush on for 2 years and the 2nd guy, was an *amazing* kisser so once that had happened, he was *amazing* at every next step so I really couldn't help myself!)
My impression of you is that the main reason you want to sleep with a lot of pretty girls is so that the guys who don't remember your name or ignored you will envy you because believe me, you get a LOT more sex when you're in a relationship than when you're a single "player".
Don't try to walk before you can run. Stop thinking about getting to sleep with girls and work on getting kisses for a while, enjoy flirting with girls and getting to know them and your idea of what's attractive may change. I don't mean you'll love them or anything like that but you might find yourself attracted to her dirty laugh, or the way she touches your knee when talking to you rather than mere physical appearance. And don't write off the people you think aren't your "type". My type is 6'2/3", fair hair and blue-green eyes. That describes my last ex exactly and, whilst I loved him, he was, at the end of the day, cr*p in bed. My best ever purely physical sexual experience was with guy number 2 above who had the right eye colour but was dark haired and nearly as short as me. I didn't fancy him at all when we started talking but he was so funny and so much on the same wavelength as me that I was happy to kiss him, which was so good it led to everything else.
That couldn't happen to you because you you've said you've only kissed one person so my guess is you wouldn't be that great. As I said before, focus on that for a while. One of my good friends and I have both said that we can end up sleeping with someone (either ONS situation or short-term relationship) that we weren't all that attracted to at first if they're a great kisser because a fabulous kiss just puts you in the mood so to speak.
So, to wind up this rambling nonsense ;o) Practice flirting with lots of girls - whether you're attracted to them originally or not. Focus on kissing a few girls and don't even think about getting them into bed. Don't completely write off a short-term relationship (6weeks to 3 months), you're more likely to get laid that way! Treat every girl you meet as a new person, not someone who ought to put out because you put a load of work in with some other girl - she doesn't know that, and you haven't put in any work with her! Don't expect to get "payback" from putting in time at the gym, other than in your physical health. Hang out with male friends more and practice being funny - you can't overrate funny when it comes to attracting girls. Stop worrying about whether other people have noticed you or remember your name.
And finally, one piece of treachery to my fellow females. When you go home for the summer (I assume you're at college elsewhere than your hometown), whenever you talk to girls tell them that you're still hurt because you just got out of a serious relationship at college. This will tell them that you're capable of a relationship, that you're sensitive and, when you bail on them as you say you plan on doing, it gives you a get out that you just weren't ready. You can use it again when you go back to school in the autumn about a girl at home.
There! Satisfied yet?!!
Sarah
xxx
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