Why men won't marry!

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-19-2005
Why men won't marry!
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Mon, 10-16-2006 - 2:16pm

This is a spin off of my thread on "How many women feel this way?", which basically centered around a discussion I was having as to why women aren't finding mates even though single men abound, and if that was a sign of things to come, who was suited better to live alone decade after decade: man or woman?

Anyway, this weekend a few of the guys got together for Football Sunday, and the topic of an article came up that was written by Matthew Weeks. It had been emailed to us last week by another friend and we all agreed to the jist of it..., that basically there was no good reason whatsoever to get married. That came from 5 single guys: 2 engineers, one cook, one fireman, and an office manager. I'm really curious what you women feel about it????

Instead of posting the link I will simply paste it here:

*****The Marriage Strike
By Matthew Weeks

For those of you who know me in real life, this will not come as a surprise, but I have no designs on ever getting married. Now, it appears I am not alone in my disposition.
"Why Men Won't Commit: Exploring Young Men's Attitudes About Sex, Dating and Marriage," a study released by researchers Barbara Dafoe Whitehead and David Popenoe of the National Marriage Project at Rutgers University, concludes that men are, indeed, more apprehensive about getting married than before.

"The median age of first marriage for men has reached 27, the oldest age in our nation's history," Mr. Popenoe remarked in the Washington Times. "If this trend of men waiting to marry continues, it is likely to clash with the timing of marriage and childbearing for the many young women who hope to marry and bear children before they begin to face problems associated with declining fertility," he continued. You know this is a collegiate study when an examination of a trend that is affecting men is used to fret about the state of women.

The study contains several possible explanations for this phenomenon, based on interviews with 60 single men, 25 to 33, who live in four parts of the country. While that level of measurement certainly is not statistically significant enough to reflect any kind of a national trend, responses generally revolved around the possibilities of suffering huge losses if the marriage ends in divorce. ("An ex-wife will take you for all you've got" and "men have more to lose financially than women" were common refrains, the study reports.)

To humor the study's results for a few minutes, let's examine whether or not these young men's concerns are justified. If we accept the old feminist argument that marriage is slavery for women, then it is undeniable that -- given the current state of the nation's family courts -- divorce is slavery for men.

Take a hypothetical husband who marries and has two children. There is a 50 percent likelihood that this marriage will end in divorce within eight years, and if it does, the odds are 2-1 it will be the wife who initiates the divorce. It may not matter that the man was a decent husband. The reality of the situation is that few divorces are initiated over abuse or because the man has already abandoned the family. Nor is adultery cited as a factor by divorcing women appreciably more than by divorcing men.

The new trend that has taken hold of the court system is what as known as the "no fault" divorce, in which the filing party needs only to cite their general discontent with the marriage in order to be granted a hearing. Women initiate these unilateral divorces-on-demand 3 times as often as men.

While the courts may grant the former spouses joint legal custody, the odds are nearly 40 to 1 of the wife winning physical custody. Overnight, the husband, accustomed to seeing his kids every day and being an integral part of their lives, will now be lucky if he is allowed to see them even one day out of the week.

Once the couple is divorced, odds are at least even that the wife will interfere with the husband's visitation rights. Three-quarters of divorced men surveyed say their ex-wives have interfered with their visitation, and 40 percent of mothers studied admitted that they had done so, and that they had generally acted out of spite or in order to punish their exes.

Then, of course, there is the issue of financial losses due to court-imposed payments. In the end (99 times out of 100), the wife will keep most of the couple's assets and --if they jointly own one -- the house. The husband will need to set up a new residence and pay at least a third of his take-home pay to his ex in child support, on top of whatever alimony payments the courts impose upon him. These can run as high as another third of his income. (Add the cost of taxes to that and the man gets to keep exactly 13% of his take-home pay -- he'd better pray that's enough to keep him alive.)

But as bad as all of this is, it would still make our hypothetical man one of the lucky ones. After all, he could be one of those fathers who cannot see his children at all because his ex has made a false accusation of domestic violence, child abuse, or child molestation. Or a father who can only see his own children under supervised visitation or in nightmarish visitation centers where dads are treated like criminals.

He could be one of those fathers whose ex has moved their children hundreds or thousands of miles away, in violation of court orders, which courts often do not enforce. He could be one of those fathers who tears up his life and career again and again in order to follow his children, only to have his ex-wife continually move them.

He could be one of the fathers who has lost his job, seen his income drop, or suffered a disabling injury, only to have child support arrearages and interest pile up to create a mountain of debt which he could never hope to pay off. Or a father who is forced to pay 70 percent or 80 percent of his income in child support because the court has imputed an unrealistic income to him. Or a dad who suffers from one of the child support enforcement system's endless and difficult to correct errors, or who is jailed because he cannot keep up with his payments. Or a dad who reaches old age impoverished because he lost everything he had in a divorce when he was middle-aged and did not have the time and the opportunity to earn it back. Our imaginary man might consider himself lucky if he knew what his life could have been.

Over five million divorced men in America are currently experiencing the situation I just outlined. Without a doubt, their stories and experiences are heard by unmarried men. Can anyone truly blame the men for having apprehension? They stand to gain little and lose everything they've worked for in their entire lives should they "take the plunge", so to speak.

So ladies, if you have a problem with this, speak to your feminist brethren. This is the legacy which they have left behind. By erasing the stigma of premarital sex and encouraging physical liberation, they have eliminated one of the most powerful incentives in history for men to tie the knot. By advocating government as a surrogate husband in the case of single motherhood, they have eliminated the disincentive for women to file for divorce. And through decades of litigious activism, they have given rise to the bloated and intrusive family court system and stacked it so egregiously against the men of this country that it now appears they are subconsciously engaging in what could be called a "marriage strike", preferring to play the odds rather than assume a massively disproportionate amount of risk.

As for the men, make no mistake, they are slowly beginning to realize that the power is now in their favor. They have more and more perfectly legitimate reasons for remaining unmarried every day. Given a choice between not marrying one's lady friend -- assuming no risk whatsoever and still having the historical benefits of marriage (sex, companionship, etc.) available to them, or marrying the woman and having a 50-50 chance of their lives being utterly destroyed should the woman so much as be "unhappy" with the marriage, the decision is a no-brainer. What women perceive as a "fear of commitment" is really nothing more than a pragmatic assessment of the odds facing men in the prospect of a marriage.
Therefore, the trends evident in this study are not much of a surprise. I would wager that if the study were conducted nationally, similar results would be produced. Of course, such a study would invariably seek to address the grievances of the dejected single women of the country. My advice to them would be simple: offer to sign a prenuptial agreement that outlines the exact terms of a possible divorce: how assets would be divided, how any alimony and child support would be handled, and other vital elements that may be causing apprehension. And don't be insulted if your potential mate asks you to sign one, or if he desires terms that will be equitable to him. No matter how strong your love may be for one another, the demand for eligible bachelors willing to commit to marriage is currently exceeding the supply, and if you won't sign it, odds are that there's another woman out there who will.

End****

Now I would go so far as to say that this may even be the reason men are unwilling to get emotionally tied to women too. I mean, if you know you're not going to get married..., and you are in a sexual relationship with a woman..., wouldn't it be best to not let yourself fall in love with her? It would be best to just have fun until things started getting all emotional and intense..., and then just move on. Or like in my case..., don't even date at all..., just live your life fulfilling your sexual needs through "friends with benefits".

Adrastos

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iVillage Member
Registered: 06-24-2005
Mon, 10-16-2006 - 3:50pm

It all seems "worst case scenario" to me. Women could counter this article with their own anti-marriage/anti-male campaign.

If marriage holds no symbolism for you, then you're right, why get married? However if you find a fantastic woman/lover/best friend etc etc and want to marry her, then go for it. If you know that marriage isn't a walk in the park, then go for it. Be realistic...marriage goes through ups and downs, communication is key.

A marriage ending in divorce takes two people...not just one. So I think it's crap that men are so fearful of divorce yet often times aren't as willing to work on things and make compromises.

I'd like to see the primary reasons for divorce...money issues, the man cheating, the woman cheating, etc etc. Just curious.

I think Pre-Nup is a huge word here! Yes it sucks but things can get nasty quick when someone feels screwed over and like promises were broken. Come up with a game plan ahead of time. Young children do typically stay with the mother, and as a woman this makes sense. Older children are sometimes allowed a say. Of course a man will still need to take care of his children...and he should want to.

It sucks that some women ruin it for men, but you know what...those aren't the men that I'm going to date. No jaded men who think all women are out to get them and won't let himself fall in love and believe in happiness. That's just too much negativity...of course a marriage won't work if you feel like that.

Maybe I'm just sick of everyone whining. So what if men aren't marrying until 27? That's because women don't NEED to get married to be supported like 30 years ago, that's because less people are even having kids and many are waiting longer. I don't think that's a big deal, it's part of any countries 'history'. I think Japan is going through the same thing...women are waiting awhile to marry and the men are getting frustrated.

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-01-2005
Mon, 10-16-2006 - 4:23pm

Seems like it's more a list of why to choose wisely the first time to avoid divorce - from a male OR female perspective. Divorce sucks - marriage doesn't have to.

People just need to go into marriage with a realistic view that it's not going to be a bowl of cherries all the time.

AJ, enjoying life with C.

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-27-2004
Mon, 10-16-2006 - 4:41pm
I agree with you tallgirl. I believe that people need to work on their emotional health, self love and confidence and communication skills so that they can be fully ready for a committed relationship and these issues that turn out small won't become such big ones. The problem with this whole country is that there are too many people getting married who just aren't mature enough emotionally to be in a relationship. If you aren't emotionally mature for the most part then you aren't going to be able to sustain a healthy relationship and of course it will fall apart eventually and your views on marriage will become more jaded. It's sad to see that this country is so gung ho on getting ahead in life financially, materialistically, academically, etc etc that we fail to work on our inner self, emotional and spiritual health and this is what the problem is. I think kids that are college age should be encouraged or required to work on themselves and take courses in relationships so that we can remedy the big problem at hand instead of masking it. Young adults need to learn early so that they can be mature enough to get married at a younger age and bear children. I honestly wish that I knew enough 6 or more years ago to work on myself like I have done these last couple of years. I wish I would have had the resources and someone would have told me before that I really needed to work on myself and encouraged me to get help. Now I finally feel as if I have a grip on things and can have a healthy relationhsip but unfortunately at this point in my life there may not be time for me to meet the one, develop a relationship and have children. There is still a little time and I'm hoping and praying that it does happen but honestly I wouldn't be so stressed about finding someone if I knew what I know now 6 years ago about relationships and self confidence.
I came from a very unhealthy family environment and had to be strong enough to rise above it and I wish I would have had more guidance to do that when I was younger. I had to raise myself. I think a lot of us in generation X have had to pick up the pieces from dysfunctional homes so that we don't pass these bad habits on to our own children.
iVillage Member
Registered: 11-01-2005
Mon, 10-16-2006 - 5:38pm

>>It's sad to see that this country is so gung ho on getting ahead in life financially, materialistically, academically, etc etc that we fail to work on our inner self, emotional and spiritual health and this is what the problem is. <<

So true. Our priorities are way out of whack, and it's also apparently fashionable to claim you don't need love or marriage in your life -- because it's easier not to deal with those things. They are hard. They take real work. As you said, we're used to working toward career and school goals, but nobody bothered to mention along the way that working hard for "people" goals is just as important and rewarding.

It's too bad that something so important takes such a back seat for so many people.

AJ, enjoying life with C.

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-19-2005
Mon, 10-16-2006 - 6:27pm

Well it's very interesting to see a womans viewpoint..., and I do agree with a lot that has been said. I too came from a dysfunctional family and had to raise myself, and furthermore I do think it is going to take relationship education to help our children to grow up ready to partner up.

But I can't help feeling jaded about marriage. After 3 divorces I can tell you that the financial hardship itself has been nothing but painful and all three were initiated by the women under unreconcilable differences. I know why one of the marriages failed, but I'll be damned if I know why the other two did. No one really told me...., I know one of them felt unfulfilled...., whatever that means.

For a while I held out for love again but I have given up that thought. I don't think I could ever marry without a pre-nup and even then only if I were madly in love. What bothers me is that two of the guys I referred to in this post have never been married and still feel there is no plus side to it.

But I will agree that it takes two to make a divorce. I really feel for some of the women I've talked to like "C" who feels like she has so much love to give but just can't find a man to give it to. In her own words "There are plenty of men willing to date or have sex, but very few willing to work on problems and commit long term".

I just feel like men aren't willing to commit at all for anything because the dice are stacked against them.

Adrastos

Avatar for cl_shywon
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-20-2003
Mon, 10-16-2006 - 6:30pm

I am SO not in the mood for this today.


Tomorrow, around a quarter till 7 in the morning, the population will hit 300 million people.

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-27-2004
Mon, 10-16-2006 - 6:35pm
It is kind of a shame actually. I'm guilty of doing it myself sometimes. Making the search for someone a lower priority. I want to make it a top priority but I know that it's a grueling process sometimes and very frustrating. I think I just need to figure out a way on how I can handle these frustrations in a healthy way and keep going for my goal no matter how hard it may be. I really want love in my life and I want to do the work that it takes to get it and I don't believe that it will fall into my lap. I think I've done the first step in taking care of myself and doing self work now I'm fully ready for the second step which is the search and to continue working on myself while searching.
I think if people were to just be real and true to themselves and stop being in denial that we all want and to a certain extent need love in our lives, then we would be more willing to do the work that it takes to get there. Like you said, everyone is too busy acting like they don't need it and can do without it which is just being in denial and trying to hide from the fact that they are really longing for love inside and just haven't found the one yet. We all go through it when we are single, the wondering when we'll find it, the frustrating search, the sadness and loneliness because we are all human but so many of us try to put on this strong front as if it doesn't matter but if dont' allow ourselves to be real about what we feel we are cheating ourselves. When we close off our emotions we are dying inside a little each time. Sad but true......
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-28-2003
Mon, 10-16-2006 - 6:49pm
I totally disagree with your post. The reason men don't get married until later is because they can get all the sex they want without getting married. Until women stop giving it away to every Tom, Dick and Harry men will continue to put off marriage as long as possible. Iri
iVillage Member
Registered: 06-24-2005
Mon, 10-16-2006 - 7:19pm

Something brought up in the responses was maturity and self-discovery. We all feel that we really knew ourselves at 20...and knew what we wanted from a life-partner. I get so frustrated sometimes on these boards because soooo many young 20-somethings are hell bent that they are ready to marry.

I found this stat online...

Age at marriage for those who divorce in the United States

--------------------------------------------------
Age Women Men
--------------------------------------------------
Under 20 years old 27.6% 11.7%
20 to 24 years old 36.6% 38.8%
25 to 29 years old 16.4% 22.3%
30 to 34 years old 8.5% 11.6%
35 to 39 years old 5.1% 6.5%

I think it really illustrates that our early 20's is such a time of self-discovery and change that commiting to one person is very difficult. I find the 11.7% for men under 20 to be interesting though.

I'm going to check out more stats at this site...
http://www.divorcepeers.com/statistics.htm

Saw somewhere else that those of an Agnostic/Athiest 'path' divorce at a rate half of what Christians and Catholics do...hrmmmm, I guess the convervatives choose to leave those numbers out of their 'campaigns'.

BTW I'm a 24 year old, single Christian woman...so if I'm stirring people up, know that I'm in the groups I refer to.

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-01-2005
Mon, 10-16-2006 - 10:32pm

I didnt read the article...quite frankly its too dang long. I'll just post one thing that may or may not be related but is something I've heard a lot about lately...people that dont "need" others, especially a companion.

I will never buy that people dont need other people and that people dont need a companion. I dont care what capacity that companion is in....fwb, long-term partner, husband or wife. When a person says "I dont need a man/woman" they are denying what is biologically, spiritually and emotionally true about the human spirit. And they're just plain full of crap.

You know what people are called when they truly find no value in other people, especially a companion?? Psychopaths.

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