Agree to Disagree

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-05-2004
Agree to Disagree
15
Tue, 10-19-2004 - 3:57pm
A little over a month ago, I started dating an older man that I have posted about. I had some doubts in the beginning, but I decided it give it another shot. Things have been going well. We get along and we enjoy each other's company. I wanted to go slowly, and we have. My family knows about him; his family knows about me; but my kids do not know I am dating him. He calls me when they are asleep and we go out when they are with their dad. I guess I'm just trying to protect them from getting attached to someone if things don't work out between us. When he was last at my house, he noticed that I have some buckling on my ceiling in the addition that was added onto my kitchen. He's a carpenter, and he offered to take a look at it at a later time. My house needs a lot of work. Paul told me he did not want to work on my house because he did not want to date his boss, and I understand and respect his decision. But he felt the roof was a serious matter and with the winter coming, it could collapse, so he offered to take a look at it. He came over on Saturday when my kids were with me. So, he ended up meeting my kids, although my twins have no idea we are dating. They just think he's someone who came to fix my roof. My kids are friendly and nosey, so they ended up interacting with Paul quite a bit, plus Paul was initiating most of the conversation and getting them going. I could tell Paul is good with kids because he fed off of them and had them laughing and riled up. I talked to Paul the next day, and he said my kids were great, but he was surprised that they were so friendly around someone they just met. They are friendly to everyone, thats' just how they are. I sensed he was nervous about something, so I asked him if meeting my kids scared him. He said it did a little because he's been married 3 times, has a son of his own and raised two sets of step-children. He said it was very familiar territory for him, which was good and bad.

Here's what I'm confused about. We talked about this at length, and he told me not to analyze things too much, but it's still on my mind. He's 53; I'm 39. He said he wasn't sure whether he was looking to get married and raise another family again. Marriage? Who's thinking about marriage? Not me -- not now anyway, I hardly know him. I told him honestly, from day one that I didn't know what I want. I do know that I want to take things slowly and not get all nuts about things right now. I think the kids spooked him because he liked them and he didn't expect it and he doesn't want to get attached so early, so he said the next thing that came to his mind. I assured him that I wasn't husband shopping or daddy shopping. Sure, if the right person comes along, and we were both madly in love with each other and we can't live without each other, then I would CONSIDER getting married again. I've been alone for 7 years. I'm stubborn, hot-headed, and very independent. I joke with my friends that I don't know if anybody could put up with me. I was in an abusive relationship before, and because of that, I am very cautious with my heart. I won't give it away so freely anymore. I do like Paul and I want to get to know him better. When I date someone, I don't think of every person as a potential husband. I think he felt kind of dumb about what he said, because he later said that he wanted to go slow, have fun, and not analyze so much. I can't help it. It's my nature to analyze. I just couldn't figure out why he said that and it bugs me.

I talked to my counselor about this last night and we have differing opinions. Paul's not sure what he wants, and I'm not sure what I want, so why can't we just date and have fun and not get all nuts about tomorrow. If after a while things don't work out, we can go our separate ways. That's what happened with the last guy I dated. We had a blast. My kids never met him, so they weren't harmed in any way. Things weren't going the way I had hoped, and I ended it. Sure, breaking up isn't easy -- it never is. I did miss him in the beginning, but I don't consider it a waste of time because I really did have a lot of fun with him. But am I supposed to assume that every relationship is not going to last and stop it before it starts? I just don't agree with that. Neither of us is sure what we want; we've expressed this up front and we want to go slow. My counselor thinks that if he "might" not want to get married again and I "might" want to get married, that we should part now before we get into a real relationship, get attached and get hurt when it ends. Again, I disagree. I think it's way too early to talk marriage. I might date him for a few months and decide that he's not my type or something like that. That happens all the time. The way my counselor is thinking is way too much strain on my brain right now. I want to have fun and not have to think too much or analyze every word or every thing that is said. If I do that, I won't be having any fun. What do you guys think? BTW, my kids are at their dad's this weekend, and Paul is coming over for dinner. This is the first time in about 3 years that I have had someone over for dinner, and I feel like a little kid. I love to cook for company, and I'm really looking forward to it. I'd like to enjoy the moment and not get bogged down with a bunch of nonsense.

Donna

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Avatar for northwestwanderer
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Tue, 10-19-2004 - 4:09pm
I agree with you in that it's way too early to talk about marriage specifically between the TWO of you, but I also see what your counselor is getting at. If the two of you have incompatible relationship goals, then it makes no sense for you to get involved. I agree with your counselor that Paul is not a likely candidate for marriage. So long as that's ok with you and you are not SURE you want to get married again, then keep seeing him. But if you are pretty sure you DO want to get married again, then getting attached to someone who doesn't share your goal doesn't make sense. I know for sure that I want to get married again, so I make sure on the first date or two that the guy is at least OPEN to that with the right person (in general, obviously). If he is ambivalent about it, or says he doubts he will get married again, I stop seeing him.

Sheri

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-19-2002
Tue, 10-19-2004 - 4:13pm

Donna, I don't find it weird that Paul shared his feelings after meeting your kids.

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-05-2004
Tue, 10-19-2004 - 5:40pm
Maggie:

Thanks for responding. You are right -- honesty is the best policy. Now that I know his feelings, I just don't know what to do about them because I don't know what I want. I always said I wanted to get remarried, then I lived with someone who ended up being abusive, and my whole outlook changed. I'm being honest in saying that I don't know what I want, and Paul knows that too. I'd like to get to know him better, but is there any point? I don't think either of us are clear on where we stand right now. So I just thought that maybe in time things might work their way out, one way or the other -- and only time would tell that. I'm pretty confused as you can tell. I'm not sure what to do.

Donna

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-25-2004
Tue, 10-19-2004 - 6:36pm
Hello Donna!! I was wondering how you are doing.

Anyway, I have mixed emotions on this. I can totally relate that it is fun to have fun with someone and not worry about anything. I would relish the thought of having someone special over for dinner when the kids are gone and feeling like a kid again. That is sweet. For sure.

But I do agree with your counselor. I am afraid that you are trading short term gain for long term pain. You ask why not just have fun and not worry?

1) You do want to get married and you do want a commitment. You want someone who is totally into you. Most women do want that and you are entitled to that and should not feel bad about it.

2) I would reject someone based on the fact that they are that much older and have been married and divorced three times.

3) If you are wasting time with him then you are not going to meet someone who really digs you. Not only do you waste this time, but you waste the amount of time it takes to accept he is not right and to get over him. That is a lot of time, especially since you are nearing 40.

4) There is no such thing as an accident. I think the ceiling problem was meant to be to intiate discussion and your kids. While it is good that you are cautious with your heart and your children, you cannot stay in the honeymoon state forever. It is actually good if they meet him as the carpenter and not the boyfriend intially - even though you didn't intend that.

Why don't you have a more frank discussion this weekend and then take some time to think about all of this. I have a feeling that your counselor popped your bubble and that you know she is right and that you need time to come to terms with what she said.

With kids we have to be sure and do everything to mimimize our risk of another train wreck. We have to do it right the next time.

I did start a longterm relationship with a guy I met on match. When it came time to discuss kids and where we are in our lives and what we both want, it seemed okay at first. But then when he realized that I am here and his kids live 3 hours away he hesitated. He also hesitated that mine is so young as compared to his. I should have let it go at that point. Because all he did was hesitate - get close and then hesitate. I have learned a lesson from him and don't want to repeat that.

I do wish you well and support you for whatever you do. I hope I have helped you somehow. Don't be afraid to be alone. There is so much to do and life is so short. You will be okay - I wish you lived here and I would make you some tea and some pumpkin pie (somehow I ended up baking 4 of those pies yesterday).

HUGS!! STRENGTH!! WISDOM!!

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Tue, 10-19-2004 - 7:46pm
What does your gut say, Donna?

When TT and I started dating, I did NOT want other children. At all. Period. He did. Totally. All of the way. Period. We agreed to disagree on the subject, and because we felt such a connection, continued to date. 6 months later, I found out I was pregnant. He always tells me that was God's way of saying he was right on the kid thing, because I am SOOO blessed with my family. I am so thankful that neither of us ended the relationship because we disagreed on that subject in the early phases of dating.

Andrea, (Comountainsprite) I'm using you as an example. When Andrea and MG talked about moving in together, it was understood and agreed by both of them that neither one of them EVER wanted to get married again. After living together, what was it Andrea? Not even 6 months, I'm sure! They were engaged to be married and have now been married well over a year.

You have to go with your gut. My gut told me TT was something special and to hang on to him. YAY that I did! Andrea's gut told her that MG was committed to her all of the way and that her and MG were in it for the long haul. I think your gut is telling you something. You need to listen to it. Don't forget about women's intuition.

Avatar for cl_tcranky1
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-19-2003
Tue, 10-19-2004 - 8:24pm
Hey Donna

You've gotten some differing opinions here and I just wanted to add my thoughts. I do think it is too early to know for sure if you all want to be married to each other. However, I don't think it's too early to know if you want to be married again some day. But your guy didn't tell you he never wants to get married again. He said he's not sure. And you yourself are saying, you're not sure 100%. So I don't think you necessarily have incompatible relationship goals. I think you're both still trying to figure it all out. And who's to say you won't figure it out together and be very happy?

If a few months from now you are feeling 100% sure you want to get married and he's quite possibly it, then's the time to see how he's feeling about marriage and family. He hasn't shut the door on that yet from what you're saying. Don't overanalyze this too much. Allow the two of you to grow in the relationship first. And like Min said, trust your gut.

Hugs

Tara

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-30-2003
Wed, 10-20-2004 - 10:34am
Donna, I have to agree with your counselor, especially after my last relationship. With my commitmentphobic boyfriend, we started things like this...it's only dating. Let's have fun. Don't analyze things. He promised that eventually he would meet my son. Things started off slow, stalled, withered and died.

My new approach is this. I'm not going to tell any man that I date in the future that I don't care if I don't get married again. I won't be unhappy if I never meet Mr. Right, but my objective for dating is remarriage.

Knowing this, I won't date for fun. If I see something that rules a guy out for marriage material, then I'm moving on.

Paul sounds to me like he's in this for fun. He's already freaking out about your kids. My ex boyfriend freaked out when he took me to a wedding. He told me before we went into the ceremony that I shouldn't get any ideas. I got pissed off because going to that wedding with him was not putting ideas in my head, but seeing his reaction was a big turn off for me.

I recommend you get that book "He's Just Not That Into You". I've decided that I want a man who is 'into' me, not proposing to me in the first few months...but someone who really, really likes me. Someone who doesn't freak out about stuff all the time.

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-19-2002
Wed, 10-20-2004 - 3:45pm

"Maggie: Thanks for responding. You are right -- honesty is the best policy. Now that I know his feelings, I just don't know what to do about them because I don't know what I want. I always said I wanted to get remarried, then I lived with someone who ended up being abusive, and my whole outlook changed. I'm being honest in saying that I don't know what I want, and Paul knows that too."


Donna, I think it just comes down to risk factor.

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-05-2004
Wed, 10-20-2004 - 5:38pm

Thank you to everyone. I appreciated each and every response.

As an update, Paul called me last night and we talked for 2 1/2 hours. We talked about everything: our past relationships, kids, marriage -- you name it, we talked about it. I feel so much better today than I did yesterday. We have both been burned in the past with infidelity, and I've been hurt with an abusive relationship. He hasn't dated since his last divorce 2 years ago and he's trying to start all over again. Neither of us knows exactly what we want, so we decided to not make things too complicated, enjoy each other's company and have a good time. I know I way over-analyze things, but that's just because I am trying hard not to repeat my past mistakes. However, we agreed to take things slow, relax and have fun, and that's exactly what I intend to do on Saturday night.

I can say that so far Paul has been very kind, respectful, a perfect gentleman. I never met anyone quite like him before. But I don't mean like instant fireworks, I mean more like a deep curiosity that you want to get to know everything you can about that person. We have some pretty deep, involved conversations and I love that. It's challenging and it's like brain food. We're both analytical and deep thinkers, and I think we challenge each other. Paul said he's never had conversations with anyone the way we talk. I really do want to get to know him better, and I think it is worth the risk.

Thanks Maggie, Tara and Mindy. You all had excellent points, and I loved the story about Andrea. You are right, I need to trust my gut, and for some reason, it's telling me to give this a try and not give up just yet. Can't really explain it, just a feeling.

As a funny side note, I was doing homework last with my twins, and somehow the conversation got around to John (the abusive guy I lived with). Alex said, "Mom, John was a freak, I don't know why you dated him". (Nothing like being repremanded by your 7-year-old). I just told him that I made a mistake, and everyone makes mistakes. Then Katie said, you need to find someone nice, like Paul. Then she asked me if he was married. And when I said no, she said that I should date him. Is she 7 or 17? Thanks for the dating vote of confidence, Katie LOL.

Thanks for your input.

Donna

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Wed, 10-20-2004 - 6:14pm
Hugs to you.

I think having fun and enjoying each other is wonderful. I think a deep curiosity and respect for someone is amazing. I was physically attracted to TT immediately. Within two hours, I was so fascinated and captivated by him. And I don't mean physically or sexually, I mean his character and integrity and values were apparent to me immediately and I wanted to know more, more, more. TT and I challenge each others' thoughts and opinions constantly - in the best way - I feel like we are constantly sharpening each other and making one another better people. I have never had that experience with anyone (well, wait, with ANOTHER MAN, I DO have friendships with women where I feel we are constantly sharpening each other) and it's amazing. It's amazing to know that your partner desires the very best for you in EVERYTHING. I never experienced that before.

Your kiddos crack me up. I love how discerning kids are, and how honest they are. And that shows they've a great mom and a great relationship with her that they are so comfortable talking to her like that.

Hugs to you, my friend. Enjoy Saturday night and the newness and fun of getting to know Paul.

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