the girl next door

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-19-2008
the girl next door
55
Thu, 06-19-2008 - 7:18pm

I'll try to keep this as succinct as possible.

Me: 47 years old, divorced 7 years ago, had some girlfriends since but no real *sparks*. Financially secure, good cook, put the seat down, etc. etc. No current girlfriend.

Her: 40 years old, 2 kids (8 & 5), lives right next door to me. Divorced 4 years ago. We're excellent friends, I take care of her kids all the time, bbq together, help her out when needed, etc. etc. We have, uh, 'hooked up' a few times in the years we've lived next door to each other but just as a basic 'friends-with-benefits' thing. It's very rare, maybe 2x a year.

The issue: I'm in love with her. I love her, I love her kids, I love her style, her smarts, her laugh and her easy-going manner. I can easily see us growing old together, our values are so very similar and I'm 100% willing to give up my single life (which has been pretty good) to be with her. But she was SO badly burned in her divorce that she pretty much hates men. No interest at all in getting involved, she's made that clear many, many times.

I've done everything I know how to do, from being supportive in her time of need and being trustworthy with her kids, ensuring that when we do hook up (like I said, it's rare) that she's, uh, satisfied, to, well, pretty much everything. We actually act like a couple, exchanging emails through the day and see each other after work pretty much every day.

I feel she's stuck me in the friend-zone and there's no chance of a deeper, more meaningful relationship.

I've tried to talk with her about this a couple of times. The first time, she got angry and said she wasn't interested in a relationship and gave me the silent treatment for a couple of weeks. The second time (a couple of years later) she made some crack about, "You just never give up, do you? The answer was no two years ago, it's no now."

I've asked some of my male friends and almost all of them tell me to just forget it, she's not interested and that's that. They may be right... but then again, maybe there's something I'm missing.

That's why I'm here, asking this question of intelligent, thoughtful women.

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-07-2005
Fri, 06-20-2008 - 11:13am

Welcome to the board Gerallt!


I'm sorry that she doesn't reciprocate the feelings youu have- I know you've been soooo patient with her for two years!


"But she was SO badly burned in her divorce that she pretty much hates men. No interest at all in getting involved, she's made that clear many, many times."


I doubt it has much to do with her divorce at this point- sure at the beginning, but not four years later.


Photobucket
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-13-2005
Fri, 06-20-2008 - 11:26am

"That doesn't mean you have to look like Brad Pitt with Usher's abs: I've dated guys who were "not so good looking" by some standards, yet I was drawn to their smile, their laugh, their hands or their eyes... even their smell LOL! And other guys who were "hot" and I found them ugly. It's personal taste, and personal preference. "

YES - that is the thing. Physical attraction is very subjective and is based on personal preference and there is NOTHING you can do to gain her personal preference. That was the problem with the guy who liked me - I was not physically attracted to him.

Bottom line - you have to find someone whose personal preference for physical attraction is for you and you for them. That is what makes the search such a PAIN but also such a fun journey.

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-03-2003
Fri, 06-20-2008 - 2:02pm

I confess I haven't read the whole thread, but I did read the ones about physical attraction.

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-13-2005
Fri, 06-20-2008 - 2:20pm

But I do think that is our point - and why I did quote Alison here (we were trying to explain to the OP that she may not be attracted to him because of her personal preference - not because he is unattractive):

""That doesn't mean you have to look like Brad Pitt with Usher's abs: I've dated guys who were "not so good looking" by some standards, yet I was drawn to their smile, their laugh, their hands or their eyes... even their smell LOL! And other guys who were "hot" and I found them ugly. It's personal taste, and personal preference. ""

We were saying that physical attraction is a very personal thing - that someone can be "not so good looking" and yet we are attracted to them for their smile, their laugh, their eye expressioins, their mannerisms - in a way - their personality and their beliefs.

I certainly do NOT have to have a 20 year old buff body and am usually not attracted to someone who looks like Brad Pitt. But I have to have someone who is warm and kind and whose MIND I respect - that was the problem with KM - there were a lot of things in his head that I did not like.

I was attracted to a wonderful middle aged guy who was bald and not that fit - but he was kind, funny and ACTIVE and liked to do a lot of the same outdoor things - our compatibility really bloomed as we went along and we would probably be together if he didn't feel it important to go back to his exwife because of his kids. He was very endearing and a good person. It was the "situation" that did us in.

I just can't find them "annoying" or "lazy" or "stupid" - LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!

But I do agree with your point that it takes much more than a pretty face and a great bod - it has to be the heart and the mind.

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-03-2003
Fri, 06-20-2008 - 2:38pm

West: I wasn't disagreeing!~

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-13-2005
Fri, 06-20-2008 - 4:33pm

I know I know. I just wanted to make sure my point wasn't missed to OP.

But then on the way back from the store I realized another REALLY important point you were trying to make that was mentioned in my new Blink book. There were researchers that found a phenomena where people who are really good looking are not held to the same standards by the public - it is like they are given an instant acceptance just because of their looks. This has happened with presidential candidates on TV, movie stars, and yes in the dating world in a relationship study as well. They had an impressive list of studies for this research. So that is important - to make sure you realize that you have to look at character - because that is what makes us happy over time - and even if the guy does look like BP! LOL!!

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-19-2008
Fri, 06-20-2008 - 4:59pm

Thanks, everyone, for your thoughtful responses.

For the record, I may not be Brad Pitt but I'm no Jackie Gleason either. (Over 40's will understand the reference.) I'm in good physical shape, not a drinker nor a smoker or slave to any other addiction or anything of the sort. I've got a good job, drive a decent car, travelled the world and, frankly, have a good lifestyle to offer.

You know, this wouldn't be so difficult if I had dated other women and had similar feelings. But I've been out with plenty of other women, even slept with a small handful of them, and none of them - not a single one - gave me a similar sense of peace, joy, well-being and sexuality that I get when I'm with my neighbour.

And it's not as if I was constantly pining after her, thereby not allowing my heart to get involved with someone else. There were plenty of times in the years that we've lived next door to one another that I said (in my head) "Nevermind, she's not interested, move on," and I did.

I'm sure that if she saw me in a different light - that is, something other than the supportive neighbour who's there to help when she needs it (I was actually helping her move furniture last night) and basically a surrogate dad to her kids - she might see that we're very compatible.

But, alas, she just doesn't see me in "that way," and I'm in the friend zone. Is there any way out? My male friends say that once you're in the friend zone, there is never any escape. (Which begs the question, why do so many women insist on being friends first? But I digress...)

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-07-2005
Fri, 06-20-2008 - 5:19pm

"But, alas, she just doesn't see me in "that way," and I'm in the friend zone. Is there any way out?"


Typically, no.


Photobucket
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-13-2005
Fri, 06-20-2008 - 5:39pm

Once you are a friend there is no way out - it means she is not physically attracted to you and does not want a romantic relationship with you. BUT that is different from being attracted to someone, wanting a romantic relationship and taking the time to let a friendship and romance begin versus just hopping in the sack and having sex be physical only. I like to feel "connected" and "important" to the other person - that is just me and I know it is a lot of other women too.

"You know, this wouldn't be so difficult if I had dated other women and had similar feelings. But I've been out with plenty of other women, even slept with a small handful of them, and none of them - not a single one - gave me a similar sense of peace, joy, well-being and sexuality that I get when I'm with my neighbour."

I believe that is because you are so hooked on her. I believe and have often said that your heart has a parking space - just one - in front of it - and when someone is parked there, there is no room for anyone else because you will compare everyone to them and never let anyone else in or you will never get to know anyone else on that level and like them. BUT it is possible to move on and even love someone more if you evict the car so to speak and open up the parking spot - and this means you do what you just did and accept it will never be more and then withdraw and do not spend any more time with them for a long time - at least until you can be attracted to someone else the same way.

And I think, too, when you really like someone and connect the way you have done, you start to build a creative image in your head of what you want them to be like as a relationship partner versus what they are really like - which you can never know because they don't want it. And that can become huge - and not real. I know this because it has happened to me.

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-19-2008
Sun, 06-22-2008 - 8:16am

Thanks again everyone.

One tactic that was mentioned by a couple of my buddies was to date other women (which I've already done) but talk about them to my neighbor. The theory goes that if she - my neighbor - realizes that she might miss out on me, and even gets a twinge of jealousy, that might help my cause.

I'm hesitant to do that because, well, it's really not my style and I think the risk of it backfiring is just too great.

Leaving aside the question for the moment about how those other women might feel - that's a whole topic unto itself, and beyond the scope of this discussion - what do you think? Is it worth it to try and play the jealousy card? Are women more attracted to men that have other options?