the girl next door
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| Thu, 06-19-2008 - 7:18pm |
I'll try to keep this as succinct as possible.
Me: 47 years old, divorced 7 years ago, had some girlfriends since but no real *sparks*. Financially secure, good cook, put the seat down, etc. etc. No current girlfriend.
Her: 40 years old, 2 kids (8 & 5), lives right next door to me. Divorced 4 years ago. We're excellent friends, I take care of her kids all the time, bbq together, help her out when needed, etc. etc. We have, uh, 'hooked up' a few times in the years we've lived next door to each other but just as a basic 'friends-with-benefits' thing. It's very rare, maybe 2x a year.
The issue: I'm in love with her. I love her, I love her kids, I love her style, her smarts, her laugh and her easy-going manner. I can easily see us growing old together, our values are so very similar and I'm 100% willing to give up my single life (which has been pretty good) to be with her. But she was SO badly burned in her divorce that she pretty much hates men. No interest at all in getting involved, she's made that clear many, many times.
I've done everything I know how to do, from being supportive in her time of need and being trustworthy with her kids, ensuring that when we do hook up (like I said, it's rare) that she's, uh, satisfied, to, well, pretty much everything. We actually act like a couple, exchanging emails through the day and see each other after work pretty much every day.
I feel she's stuck me in the friend-zone and there's no chance of a deeper, more meaningful relationship.
I've tried to talk with her about this a couple of times. The first time, she got angry and said she wasn't interested in a relationship and gave me the silent treatment for a couple of weeks. The second time (a couple of years later) she made some crack about, "You just never give up, do you? The answer was no two years ago, it's no now."
I've asked some of my male friends and almost all of them tell me to just forget it, she's not interested and that's that. They may be right... but then again, maybe there's something I'm missing.
That's why I'm here, asking this question of intelligent, thoughtful women.

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You will see on here with other posters that meeting the right person sometimes is all about just expanding your social circles. Joining meetup groups, finding new hobbies, frequenting new areas with friends - all of this will broaden your possibilities. You seem like a great guy so maybe you should make a goal to make 8-10 new friends out of your usual haunts in the next 8 weeks. That would expand your circles and give you more chances to meet a woman who is ready for you.
ITA! Well said, City, as usual!!
I think gerallt has to really move on and find someone whom he wants who wants him. I think it would be okay for him to communicate honestly to the woman that he really had feelings for her but respects that she doesn't and he cannot keep spending time with her that he has to move on and maybe they can be friends in time? If she reacts to that - maybe - but I doubt it - and then everyone is very clear about where they stand.
I think City nailed it - she's
"One tactic that was mentioned by a couple of my buddies was to date other women (which I've already done) but talk about them to my neighbor. The theory goes that if she - my neighbor - realizes that she might miss out on me, and even gets a twinge of jealousy, that might help my cause."
Since she's put you in the friend category, she would not only be happy to find you dating someone else, she will be RELIEVED that the pressure is off of her to be your mate.
Thanks again, everyone, for your responses.
As I re-read my entries and the responses, I can understand how some might think there's more than a hint of desperation here.
Well, I'd like to take a few moments to set the record straight.
I mentioned before that I've dated a number of other women, and I've been very fortunate that attracting women really hasn't been a problem. Most of them aren't even psychos! (though, frankly, there was this 1... but that's another story for another time) So it's not just a yearning for female companionship or the bliss of sex.
I live a pretty full life. I'm in good shape, have great friends, good job, enough money and a vast array of life experiences (which is probably why getting the attention of women isn't that much of a problem). So it's not as if I'm trying to fill some sort of gaping void in my life.
It's just that she and I seem so well matched...
Another thing that puzzles me a bit is this idea of being attracted to a potential partner that's already being pursued by one or more others.
For me personally, I don't really have time for that. If I want to meet someone but then find out she's got half-a-dozen fellows in orbit, well, I'm out. The potential for drama is just too high, and drama isn't my style at all.
To the key question: What do I want?
cl-alison - bless her - hit it on the head when she wrote:
"gerallt, I have realized that I'm crazy with jealousy at the thought of you with someone else... let's be together!"
That's exactly what I want. But, clearly, what I've been doing - being a good man, ready to help when she needs it, great with her kids and all the rest - isn't working.
I know there's this idea that women are attracted to the whole 'bad boy' thing, and I get that, I really do. But I'm not about to re-create my entire personality. It completely goes against my nature. (Besides, I've worked in the prison system. I know all about 'bad boys' and the havoc they can cause to the women in their life, and yet the women keep coming back. I just don't get it... but again, that's another thread entirely.)
So, to summarize - and please feel free to correct me if you think I'm wrong on this:
* Don't be so available. Say 'no' to helping her move furniture, watch the kids, etc.;
* See (and possibly sleep with) other women, but parading them around in front of my neighbour probably isn't a good idea;
* Expand my social circle;
* If/when she's interested in an occasional late-night tryst, either refuse or go into it with absolutely no expectations;
* Generally be a good man.
None of these things will probably make a difference since she's already put me in the friend zone, but at least I can hold my head up with integrity and do better next time.
Am I missing anything?
this idea that women are attracted to the whole 'bad boy' thing, and I get that, I really do. But I'm not about to re-create my entire personality.
Uh oh!
*brief aside*
For the record, the 'bad boy' phenomena as an attractive trait to women (speaking generally here) is well documented.
See http://www.newscientist.com/channel/sex/mg19826614.100-bad-guys-get-the-most-girls.html
Still not my style though.
if a man was doing this to one of us we would definitely cease physical activity. There is such a thing as not needing to commit since you are getting all of the goodies for free. Why should she make the plunge with you when she can have you in every way a woman really needs? You are there for her, her kids, her libido, her house, what is left for her to long for really? I seriously think that might be part of the problem. I am not suggesting anythign you will do can change her feelings if she truly doesnt have them but you have given way too much of yourself in hopes of something happening instead of waiting for something to happen on solid ground SO THAT you could give more of yourself. This is backwards thinking IMO.
I do not do things for women I want a relationship. I do things for women that I am already in a relationship. The difference is quid pro quo where there are expectations if you do something for them then you can get something back, like being liked and therefore having a romantic relationship. I believe this does not work. If the woman likes you then she does for who you are not what you do for her.
When asked a favor then I check in myself to see if I truly will get joy in doing something for someone WITHOUT expecting anything in return, otherwise this creates a hidden agenda.
Mark
We're fools whether we dance or not, so we might as well dance. ~Japanese Proverb
to see if I truly will get joy in doing something for someone
And, of course, sometimes you do things simply because they are the right thing to do.
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