I finally figured it out

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
I finally figured it out
4
Wed, 12-01-2004 - 6:14am

For all the good it does. I have been putting these pieces together for so long and last night after a conversation with Jack where i still wasn't quite sure I slept on things and I really think that this time I have it. I am one of those "you can have it all" kind of people. Jack is too. But the reality is you can't. I have SO many interests and things I love to do outside of family and friends that since I became a mother have had to take a back seat, like my painting, theatre, reading, writing and music. These are near and dear to me but I KNEW when I decided to become a mother I was chosing that over these interests. I can't say I am not sad about it often, because I am. But that was my choice and for the most part I am OK to happy with that.

How this pertains to my situation is this. I have thought all this had to do with his parents and their expectations and maybe it is slightly (although i have said for a time I didn't believe that was really the big issue here like I originally thought) I am sure that the way he was raised made him this way IN PART. Jack is very goal oriented with his career. He has many hobbies and personal interests. Personal success is a very high priority for me. All that sounds good but I am sure you have heard me say his issue was being "overwelmed" Well - now I get it. He wants his cake and wants to eat it too basically. All of you know that with a relationship - especially with a FAMILY - you have to make sacrifices. That includes taking time from personal goals and interests and gearing them toward family goals and interests. You cannot have it both ways. Something has to give. I am not saying people can't pursue these important things if they have a family just that it cannot be the top priority anymore.

Right now - might as well tell you since it will be obvious to people that are NASCAR fans when Jack's mom doesn't go the banquet on Friday (have a suspicion his dad will get him to sit with him on stage Friday) that they are most likely going to be divorcing. His dad is very oriented toward his business and racing. Always has been far as I can tell. But because of that his family suffered. I think he tried to juggle that for a time. he had interest in his children. I feel that was more for grooming for the business but that is speculation. ANYHOW - I see his mother, who had the life sucked out of her by having to hold together and raise a family with a man who was more interested in personal goals. Almost like he scheduled his family in instead of having family be his life and career be a way of maintaining it. Am I making sense? The point is that even though Jack is very different in many ways to his dad, I see this in him. The money DOES matter to him, but not because of the material aspects. It is the lifestyle. As you know, if you have a lot of personal interests it is way better and easier to have all that if you have money too. Money for services to maintain your home, car, ability to take trips, enroll in classes and pursue interests. I don't think this is even a very conscience thing for him. But it all makes sense now that is for sure.

Bottom line is, unless he can change his thinking and say "I really want a family and wife and I am willing to sacrifice some of the personal interests I have, I cannot have that. If I did marry someone and not change my thinking I will only be dooming her, my children, and ultimately myself to sadness and unfullment" He has to choose. He can't have it both ways. If he doesn't I actually feel sad for whomever he DOES marry because they will end up like his mom. but I think he will be far worse for wear than his father because he is more feeling and emotional.

His being overwelmed is that he tries to do it all. he thinks he has to be successful. It is nice to want it all but in the end you CAN'T have everything. If you try you will be - overwelmed! Ladies, I know that he loves me. I really do. And he hasn't ever been mean or abusive or anything that bad. He has made mistakes. All things done can be forgiven but he has to make a decision. I have felt that you all have judged him wrongly in some ways because it is hard to understand that he really is not usual. He is a type of person that is kind, sensitive, shy, forgiving....a lot of very feminine qualities actually and I am SURE that some people have suspected he is gay LOL. But he isn't thank goodness for me. hehehe (my first DH I fully believe was). But I also know this isn't about me at all. For all there is, he does love me. But at the end of the day that isn't enough is it? I so wish it was but he has to decide what kind of life he wants and I really believe that if he continues to try to do everything and try to fulfill his ideal of success like he is, he will only be unhappy and so will his family if he has one.

This doesn't mean the right choice is to choose a wife and family and let some personal pursuits slide or even disappear. I am only saying he has to CHOOSE that. It would be equally sane to choose the opposite and stick with career and personal interests. But I do not think it fair to do both especially with such an obvious example of the saddness it causes (his parents).

Maybe you all disagree with this I don't know. But finally it makes PERFECT sense. I have always had all these ideas floating around but last night they all came together. I think the distance that he put between us at times was for protection, and not to be callous or mean or disrespectful. I think he thought of my protection and Alyse's. BTW - I know that he really loves her too.

But the reality is, he can't have it both ways. If I continue this without him reconciling this reality then you are right...it will never change and if I DO marry him without it changing I will only be miserable.

I don't think he can't decide to put us as a priority either. But I do think that is less likely to happen than the other two options. However, I know that he does listen and think about things and does care about self improvement and his own happiness and I fully intend on sharing this with him at some point. Right now he is going to New York for the week. We will see what happens when he gets home. But either way, I have to decide that he has to make a choice. I am not will to become like his mother. I think I have had enough unhappiness and be it intentional or not that will be my future :(. The good thing I do know though is IF he decides that family is a priority for him - that means Alyse and I hopefully - I know he will stick to that. But he needs to decide that OUTSIDE of us. It has to be about what he wants for his life and not the particulars of who it is. After he decides that, then it will be about us....hopefully. Who knows, it could take years. But that is the reality of it. And I won't be around in years (hopefully for ME LOL - if I am still single years from now....YUCK!)

So that is it actually. Maybe finding it isn't about me makes it easier and who knows, maybe I am totally wrong again. But this makes sense to me and little has in this whole thing so for now it works I guess.

So much for a break. I have to vent this BS somewhere.

laura

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 12-01-2004 - 8:21am

Hi Laura....

I'm married to my wonderful and great SO. When we first started dating, I shared my stories with the board. I received good responses (things I wanted to hear) and not so good responses (things I didn't want to hear). I also got frustrated and felt that maybe I was sharing way tooo much. In the end, we are incontrol. We take from the post those things that relate to us and give us food for thought. When I got divorced I told myself that the next man would have to do this, that, this and that to meet my expectations. I realized that my expectations were set way too high, especially since I fell head over heals in love with my husband. I knew from day one that he was the "one". The one that I would share the rest of my life and heart with. But, it wasn't that easy. There were things that he did, that I shared with the board, that would have caused any other person to end it. And, I did end for a whopping 24 hours. There was another person on this board that had gone through some similar things, and she is married and from the last I heard having a 2nd child with her husband.

My turning point for sticking by man was one of personalities - to stick by man no matter what. I had that same personality with my exhusband and I stuck by him for many years and yes it was to no avail and I called it off. But that was different, and he was a different man and I knew from day one with him that that was the person he was and he wasn't going to change. I slowly began to dislike him and fall out of love.

With Chuck, it's completely different. I mean, we are not perfect. We argue and I mean we argue. He has an Irish/German temper and I have a hot spanish temper - they do not mix well at times. He has an over powering personality and I'm a much stronger women then I was 6 years ago. But, we are also love each other very much and care for each very much and are supportive of each other and tell each other each and every day how lucky we are to have each other.

Why am I saying this? Because your post reminded me of a time that I posted when I told the board, after posting of a particular situation, that I was going to "Stick by my man" no matter what. I did stick by him and I what a great reward I have now for doing so.

I know you are in a different situation then I was in. Jack is not committing to a relationship with you. You know that, you see it and you are living in it. You ultimately make the choices that determine the rest of your life. Every day life will give you a different reason to make a different choice and it's your right.

You do what you need to do to work through this life choice and situation. Work it out, talk about it, journal about it, pray about it. Whatever you do, eventually you will come to the end of it - no matter what that end is.

But, my word of advice - stay positive, stay hopeful (not for life with Jack, but a loving relationship with whomever it may be). Negativity about yourself and your life has no place in ones life - it only holds us back.

You mentioned that when you had your daughter you gave up on some things. Well, I found that I didn't give up on my artistic ability or my crafting, I just found a way to work it into my life. I craft with my kids. I draw with my kids. Stay positive about it and you'll find a way to work in what you feel you need to give up into your life as it is right now.

Hugs, and Good Luck, Marilyn

CL-Entrepreneurial Women

Business Impressions, LLC

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-19-2004
Wed, 12-01-2004 - 9:56am

I think what you say makes sense. But right now he doesn't have to choose, right? He has his personal priorities and still gets to see you, without giving any of that up. So isn't the question, how long will you wait? I have the same question about my situation, and I'll post that in a different post. I know you say you will not wait forever. But at some point won't you have to stop seeing him again to force him to make the choice? And when you've stopped seeing him before, didn't he choose his personal interests over you, and then only start seeing you again when the pressure was off to commit? I'm guessing at some of this since I don't know all the history.

Photobucket

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-25-2004
Wed, 12-01-2004 - 10:03am

You are obviously aware of the difference between what you want versus what you are getting from Jack and this is good. You are right that you are not mentally done with Jack and you still have hope and until that changes you cannot throw in the towel. That is okay. Just don't be a doormat - keep your eyes open and say what you think - which you are doing.

You can take a chance and hang on - or you can move on - there is no wrong or right - it is all a toss of the dice.

I have a friend who lived with a guy for 15 years and then he finally married her. She was at the end of her rope for many times but she always said she would rather live with him with no ring than to be without him. Of course this is not the usual and normal route. I think her guy had to feel ready for the responsibility. He also watched his parents go through a very ugly divorce and the family business was upside down for a long time. When he finally got his house remodeled he asked her and she was speechless. Believe me, when she walked down the aisle on her wedding day, there was not a dry eye in the room. I think that is the most special wedding I have ever attended.

Just hang in there and everything will be okay. Concentrate on being okay on your own. Don't cling to him. Look your best and be your best and see what happens.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Wed, 12-01-2004 - 11:24am

thanks. So far I really haven't been a doormat because as bizarre as the situation has been I don't feel that I have been taken advantage of. To answer five's question... He doesn't come back because the commitment is off. He usually ends up calling and asking to see me, usually crying or close to it...and I cave and we have a few fantastic dates, I pressure him again with the "what the heck are we doing" question and he doesn't know what to say so says nothing and we go on another 4-8 day (average) weird period.

I am going to throw this out at him when he comes back. he mentioned on the way home from the weddin ghis concern about compatibility (which is HOGWASH) and I think that was an issue of time spent together/priorities. So I told him last night that I wasn't sure our lives did fit because he has so many things to do there was no place for Alyse and I in his life. There wasn't time to really talk which is fine. He needs sink-in time anyways. I told him that all this flip flop is freaking me out. here I want to hang out with him and be with him more again but then I am just setting myself up again right? Can't do it anymore. I am too scared and it hurts too much to be so confused. Granted, I could muster up more courage to handle it again if I so choose but the barrel is getting a bit dry.

So I am going to pose this too him. And I am getting ready to move on because like I said, he has to DECIDE. I don't think it is a change issue - he just has to concentrate on what he wants and let some things take a back seat. You can't do it all! You really can't. If you divide yourself to thinly everything suffers.

So that's what I am going to do. This has got to stop. It is driving us both crazy. He night decide not to be with me or he might take time...or he might decide not to and then realize he was mistaken. Or maybe in no time at all he will see that we should be together - I believe we should be, all the people that know us both think that. But he has to know it too.

*sigh* Oh well. Either way I'll live LOL

Laura