Lies, lies and more lies

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-28-2004
Lies, lies and more lies
10
Wed, 10-03-2007 - 5:13pm

My ex was a pathological liar. He would lie about ANYTHING, I swear just for the sake of lieing (sp?). Most of his so-called friends knows he full of crap when he says anything. I think it's genetic because my daughter does this. She'll just make stuff up. For instance, when she was in kindergarten, they were talking about their parents occupations and she told her teacher that her dad worked at KFC in a neighboring town. Her teacher knew better and kind of laughed about it.

Now, she's telling all kinds of crap. She's already got the reputation that she's full of bull. It's driving me nuts. I can't depend on anything she tells me...just like her dad. She's grounded right now because I've caught her in a lie. No cell phone or computer for 3 weeks. She was with her friend at a park and there were some boys there. She starts blurting out that she's not a virgin! Holy crap! Her friend tried to get her to stop saying what she was saying but she just kept on and on and totally made a fool out of herself. Her friend tells her mother what happened who in turn told me. I've given her a way out and she still won't come clean.

It really disgusts me that I have this beautiful almost 14 yr old daughter that is becoming this person that no one can trust. I've tried everything under the sun and I honestly don't know what else to do. I don't like this person she is becoming. She has always had such low self esteem for some reason. Wants to popular ...., she can't seem to just be herself. And yes it has been discussed in therapy and at that time she was 8 yrs. old. Even then she would say things for "shock" value. It's like she doesn't realize people like her for her.

Sharon

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-13-2005
Wed, 10-03-2007 - 5:20pm
Oh dear - that must be most disconcerting to you. I guess the only thing you can do is to try to find things to do for her that she is good at so she boosts her self esteem. They say busy is good and that idle hands are the devil's workshop, right?
iVillage Member
Registered: 02-08-2006
Wed, 10-03-2007 - 5:23pm

I'm sorry.


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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-15-2004
Thu, 10-04-2007 - 2:42am

So sorry you are going thru this.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 05-13-2005
Thu, 10-04-2007 - 8:24am
Boy am I glad we have YOU on this board - because your expertise comes in so handy!! Good point - I don't think any of us would have thought of that but it makes perfect sense.
iVillage Member
Registered: 02-20-2007
Thu, 10-04-2007 - 8:36am

Yikes!!!

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-08-2007
Thu, 10-04-2007 - 12:42pm

I'm sorry to hear how frustrated you are, Sharon. I can only imagine...my DD is 10 and has told some whoppers herself, only to get caught in them and embarassed. I have to say, the I can totally visualize your daughter in kindergarten saying that thing about her dad and KFC...so typical of tots...and kinda cute, but I know that now it is gone beyond cute.


My daughter used to do this much more when she was younger. For some reason when she was in 1st grade she wanted everyone at her school to think she had a whole bunch of little sisters that she had to take care of after school (in reality she's an only child). That was pretty innocent but then just last year, in 4th grade, she lied and told her best friends that we (her and I) are so poor that I can't afford anything at all. She conjured up all kinds of sympathy and collectively, her friends bought her a CD with a little note saying how sorry they were that she was so poor! I was livid! I made her give it back and call the girls moms. It was awful.


My guess is that when they lie, it is for either sympathy or attention? I wish I could be of more help. I did find this article that seems really helpful:


http://life.familyeducation.com/lying/parenting/36251.html


Why Kids Lie

Why kids lie.How kids learn to lie

Every child lies. It starts off as cute little entertainments, somewhere around three or four. Has your child ever pushed a stool across the kitchen floor, crawled up right in front of the cookie jar, and then reached for the lid just to see what it'll be today -- censure or reward? The little mistruths of everyday life begin the same way.

First, imaginary friends appear out of nowhere late in the third or early in the fourth year and are pressed into service as playmates, scapegoats, alter-egos, and so on. They allow for a certain mental privacy as they are slave solely to the child's wishes in ways that no other being could or will ever be. They enjoy some security from intruders (us) because they "play" by the child's rules only. They are alternately beloved, unruly, cast out, filthy perpetrators of deeds disavowed by the child, or invested with awesome powers to protect and preserve all that is good.

Later on, these imaginary friends serve as a foundation for the decisions to be made in the school years about right and wrong, personal responsibility, and so on. So set the extra place at the table, put out the occasional extra Oreo, but no need to overindulge with a special supermarket run. Never ridicule your child about them, as they are tender but powerful first attempts at separating from you emotionally and physically. Humiliating them at these first encounters, can make it pretty hard for them to entrust these tender inner thoughts, feelings, and dreams to you later on, when it really matters for their safety or well being.

The cover-up
Next come the lies that worry us a bit more: the cover-up or blaming of another for a misdeed NOT attributed to an imaginary friend. Five- and six-year-olds experiment a lot here but, by and large, they are not very good at it yet, and usually get caught. Still, a light parental touch is best. The reason? Shame and embarrassment are still allies at this developmental level. They still care more about what you think of them than anybody else, including themselves. Usually, they feel worse after the act than before, and you can count on a useful dose of guilt when you confront them. Saying, "Sam, I know you took my change off the dresser and I need it back. Let's talk about how it happened," works better on a young developing conscience than cross-examination, which invites them to lie to you yet again.

The early school years

By the early school years, it's worth thinking some about the sources and motives for lying, because kids clearly understand reality from fantasy by then. The three common reasons:

  • avoiding punishment;
  • preserving our desired image of ourselves;
  • protecting others.

The first is by far the most common. The more a child lies to avoid punishment, the more suspicious I am that there is probably too much punishment being used in his life, either physical, emotional, or both. A parent who is physically intimidating, encourages his child to tell more lies, and for good reasons. Remember -- self control is the goal here, not parent control. And frequent lying is more often about parent control.

The second motive arises after kids achieve a certain identity which they try to maintain, both inside and outside the family. As peers become more important, lying to and about oneself can be a way of trying to preserve a particular self-image. The best tactic is to reflect back to the child the corrosive effect such lying has on one's own trust in himself.

The third motive usually is the last to appear developmentally, and can occasionally be rationalized as ethically acceptable. Not so fast; true altruism is a saintly, rare act in which there is not a speck of self-serving, not even feeling good is allowed.

Strategies

Remember that childhood patterns endure: grown-ups behave as they did as children more often than not. Let's review some strategies for dealing with this can of worms, because it deserves one of our better efforts as parents.

  • Think for a minute how you can tell if your child is lying. It tends to be easier when they are younger as they are less experienced at masking body language. But as they mature, so do their cover-up skills. Watch the eyes (no contact, looking away?), the mood (too dark or too light for the facts rendered?), the tone of voice (slight quiver, false assurance?). But don't spend too much energy here, as none of us ever gets very good at this, and it treats our kids as suspects too often.


  • Choose your battles. Confrontations over lying expend trust, yours and theirs, so let the little fish go, but let them know you do smell something fishy. Still, allowing for slack and not harping on the small lies makes the attention you focus on the big lies mean much more.


  • Use pre-emptive strikes occasionally. At the dinner table, relate real stories about your feelings about the lies you encounter at work and in the community that bother you, and conclude with something like this: "I'd never expect that from you. Our trust in each other is just too important to us as a family." University of Ohio researchers have shown this kind of "inductive discipline" promotes empathy and discourages more serious kinds of limit testing. You might even talk about one or two lies that you regret, and their consequences.


  • When you catch them in an important lie that has to do with their safety or emotional well-being, take them for a walk, or some private place, tell them to listen, and lay out what you know. Don't corner and interrogate them; they just squirm and lie more to protect themselves from your anger and disappointment. Give them a chance to be upset, then talk about trust and self-deception as the real consequences. Then think with them together about how to repair the damage. If you get stony silence, try again later, but don't berate, degrade, or humiliate. You become the problem, then, not the lie.
~Pacific~
iVillage Member
Registered: 12-28-2004
Thu, 10-04-2007 - 2:27pm

Thanks for the article. I paid more attention to the last paragraph more than any of them. I have been fairly quiet to her the last couple of days just because I am at such a loss and when I have a lot on my mind I just go off to myself and think.

She did make the comment that she gets it honest (she was talking of her dad.) So I asked her when he lies to her how that makes her feel. Course she doesn't like it. Then pointed out to her that I don't like to be lied to because it makes me feel the same way.

I then brought up her friends and how when she says things that arent' true, no matter what it is, did she think her friends are going to think she's trustworthy. I did let her know that I believe she is on a bad road because at the end of the road, she's not going to have any true friends because to be a true friend you have to be able to trust that person.

I have given her opportunity to fess up to what she said and she certainly has not taken it. I also told her I would maybe cut down her grounding time if she can get to the bottom of this. She is still insisting that she didn't say it. At this point, I'm just waiting her out. I hope she's learning something out of this.

In the meantime, I have certainly put what little social life I have on hold and I'm thinking of giving up my part time job over all this. I can't trust her to be at home alone even for a few hours.

Sharon

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-13-2005
Thu, 10-04-2007 - 11:45pm

I am wondering if the social pressure is so high for her that she feels compelled to do this to fit in and get attention?

My friend's bf had a problem with shyness to the point he could not attend more than one class sememester and it caused him a lot of stress. He worked for a long time with a therapist/professional and was even on medication for it.

I can remember my friend consulting my opinion on this in the beginning (meaning was this a good idea to date someone like this?) and we both took the time to read about it. And I said it sounds like he is getting a handle on it and can work through it. And he really is - with the right help he has adjusted much better in social situations and has been off the medication for some time and is even taking a full load of very hard classes in a very technical field. I can't remember the name of his condition. But perhaps this is something similar. I think I would get more to the root of WHY she is compelled to lie to cope rather than getting mad at the lying itself.

Good luck and keep us posted. Lots of hugs to you both during this hard time. I think you are right to want to spend more time with her.

Avatar for mhash
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Fri, 10-05-2007 - 12:22am

When my high school senior son told me that the reason why he did not do the homework necessary for the course, he said he did not feel like it. I realized that he was being straightforward and honest, qualities which I valued in anyone. I told him that I appreciated his honesty and went over with him about the consequences of not doing the schoolwork and emphasized it was up to him and that I could not make him do it regardless.

I knew from my own experiences that I want to acknowledge my children's honesty even when I don't like it, i.e. the bad AND the good honesty.

For me it is more important that my children share the unvarnished truth more so than lying to me about what they think I want to hear.

I have worked on allowing them to tell me the truth and not have recriminations when they do. I am lucky that they have always done that with me.

Mark

Everything has beauty, but not everyone sees it - Confucious
iVillage Member
Registered: 11-03-2003
Fri, 10-05-2007 - 11:23am

tell me the truth and not have recriminations when they do.


We do the same thing.