Long: Serious trouble with son
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| Sat, 08-11-2007 - 9:50am |
Hi Folks, I wrote this for a different parenting board, but I thought you all might have some insight. Thanks.
Some background:
I am a single mom. Been a single mom since my 8 yo son was 2 months old. His Dad is absentee. Am now dating a wonderful man seriously and he interacts positively with me and my son on a daily basis. When the three of us are together the atmosphere is full of fun conversation, and laughs.
My son has a history of being manipulative: a prime example is last year, 2nd grade, he convinced his teacher that he had a disability and could not hold a pencil without pain. For half a year the teacher took dictation for him. She finally approached me after several months of this, suggesting that I get physical therapy for him. There is nothing wrong with him I said! The school took the side of the teacher, and I enrolled him in physical therapy. Within two sessions, the therapist conceded that there was nothing wrong with him and that he could write as neatly as she could...
That story is par for the course. He uses his big brown eyes and a lazy attitude to control his environment.
So here's the situation that led to the danger:
A month ago my bf went away for his job for a month. My son and I settled into out routine of life at home and the month was uneventful. My son started being a little more sassy that usual, which I dealt with in the typical way: time outs, and increased amounts of light chores like taking the compost out, cleaning his room, bringing the dirty dished to the sink, etc. The boyfriend comes home a week ago from his travels and is happy to see us. He brough back a dozen souvineers for my son and spent about an hour with him telling him stories about the places where the trinkets came from etc. I received some gifts, too. THe point is that my son has been included in the fanfare of the bfs return.
Last week on two consecutive days my son did things that are in direct opposition to well established rules in our household.
1. he climbed on top of my car (He did this while I was laboring hard at a quarry sorting through rocks for a fireplace I am building. I was within 15 feet of the car, but my eyes were not on him until he was already up there. It was 100+ degrees and I deeded to get what I was doing done, so I told him that I was very angry and that I would determine his final punishment later, but for now he had to sit in the shade of the car with his water silently and wait. Home his punishemnt was, perhaps less than thoughtful, but I made h im continue to clean his room.
2 The secont infractoion: He very next day he really taunted the beagle until she snapped at him (No bite.). She's a very small dog and he chases and corners her and tries to pick her up by her legs. Just not good. The rule is that the beagle must come to him, he's not allowed to chase or taunt just pet and on her terms. He knows this rule well. When I caught him doing this, I sent him to his room and followed him. I made him clean his room again, and this time took a small toy (ala dollar store) that I jhad asked him a gazillion times to put away. I told him that I was going to take this to Goodwill nbecause he wasn't caring for it. to this he threw the tanrum of his life. He has never bbeen prone to tantrums ever, so I was reallly caught off gaurd. He said,
"NO. I won't let you. You cannot leave my room without giving me my clip (It was a colored carabiner clip)."
He braced himself against the door. I remained calm and said " You let me out of this room or you will get into even bigger trouble!!"
"NO! He yelled" Eventually it amounted to me picking him up and moving him and him screamaing " I'll get that back or you'll buy me amother. You'll pay for this, Mom!!!!"
Honestly I was really shocked. We don't yell in our house much at all. Words like that are just totally new to me. SO I looekd online for what to do and came up with a discipline program that seemd to make sense. When he breaks a house rule, he must first write a 50 word apology. If he doesn't cooperate or if it is a very serious infraction, he gets an hour in a chair. (Seems long, but my son LOVES time outs, he even gives them to himself). This has bene going on two days, so he's had three 50 word essays and 2 hours in the chair. I feel like a tyrrant.
Now the big dangerous part. Yesterday he has a pretty good day, only one 50 word essay. BF came over and sweetly mowed my lawn while my son helped him by moving balls and jump ropes etc out of the way ahead of the mower. We had a nice dinner which we all enjoyed, there was no picky eating battle. Then we all played with walkee talkees together with much laughter. THen bed time which seemed to go smoothly. Half an hour later, my bf and I are chatting in the kitchen. We hear thumping upstairs. I wonder what that is. The son should be asleep. BF says it's on the roof. He goes outside, I run upstairs. My son's screen window is open and he's no where to be found. THe bf is looking up at the roof and can't see him. OMG I was terrified. I have a tall 2-story Victorian house with steep roofs. My son eventually came around and was just climbing all over. He made his way back into his room. I was too upset to have anything but an over-the top-reaction, so I calmed myself for 10 minutes while my bf lectured him about safety how he could have been killed. We screwed the windows upstairs shut for the night.
Seems obvious to my that something needs to change major in my approach. When I asked my son why, he said ("I did it becaus eI'm not used to having the BF back in town." SO Now he's trying to leverage a perfectly wonderful relationship apart for whatever reason.
I have not given him his formal punsihment because I have no idea what to do. He's in limbo now with me being curt with him until I figure out what to do.
Please give me your thoughts on defiance, attention seeking, and manipulation in children. He's a bright boy and I want him to succeed and be happy.
Humbly and desparately,
A very worried Mom.
Edited 8/11/2007 9:54 am ET by ubersilly

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I wonder how long have you involved your bf with you son? At what age did he started to get to know your bf? Is there a correlation? From I know is that there usually a good reason behind every behavior.
The not being able to write behavior seems to me more like wanting to have a sense of control. I believe young children feel a need to control their environment more when they are not feeling like there is no stability or safety. I'm just thinking out loud here and not saying you don't provide a safe, stable home.
He has experienced a lost, i.e. his father and even though he does not conscious remember it, there is a subconscious, cellular part that does and he knows that other kids have a father around. Perhaps he is experiencing that loss again with your boyfriend being gone on his trip and feeling that his world is not stable. It does not matter if you explain it to him. There is intellectual understanding (and for a 8 yo that is limited anyway) and there is emotional understanding. His acting out is the only way he knows how to control his world or to feel that he has a sense of control.
Common therapeutic wisdom says not to introduce the bf into a child's life until it is a "sure thing" since stuff happens (people here can share stories on that, ex. Worst Ways of Getting Dumped) and then the child experiences the loss of another father figure.
So that's my theory on the "why." You may want to talk to a child therapist on how to deal with it. The timeouts, etc. are good tools for addressing the symptom and that may still be worth continuing for him and his age-appropriate behavior but there may be something else going on that the *cause* needs to be addressed.
Make sense?
Mark
Thanks, Mark.
I have been dating this man for about 10 months now. We talk about our future together, and it is a serious committed relationship.
It didn't hit my that he might take the bf's abscence as another loss. His father had an on-again-off-again participation in my son't life until 1.5 years ago when he totally disappeard to my son (I have looked up police records and I know that he's been arrested for driving while drunk several times and also drunk with kids and drugs in the car, my son does not know this, of course...). My son is the spitting image of h is father, and he occasionally speaks angrily about his father's drinking. I talk to him matter of factly and empathetically about having alcoholics in the family.
Our home life is as stable as I can provide. I am a freelance scientist and artist and I work at home. My son doesn't go to daycare, so in that way things are stable and simple. I am remodeling so in the house, not his room, but the rest of the house there is this shifting cloud of dust and trail of debris. We have " No bare feet" rules in parts of the house where I am doing demolishion etc. So in that way things are not stable. He has a regular circle of friends he hangs with who are the most sweet and fun bunch of little boys. Everyone in the whole neighbor hood loves whatching them ride their scooters around and play. So that is stable. My mommoing style is very liberal within strict limits. Ithink I will have to introduce more structure within those limits.
The university that hires me has a great counseling program for its employees, and I have already decieded that I could use some help from a pro on the matter, so I will be making an appointment on Monday for as soon as they can take me and/or my son. I have seen a counsellor a couple times and, being receptive, it has always been a great help to me.
Thanks for your insights, that's exactly why I posted on this board.
Edited 8/11/2007 10:31 am ET by ubersilly
Edited 8/11/2007 10:55 am ET by ubersilly
An idea came to mind when I read your response was to give "little" things that your son can control, make decisions on. You may already do this. Some things come to mind, "where do you want to go/do today (or if that is too wide open then give him two or three choices)?" You bf can participate by asking your son the same thing. It's about giving him choices, a sense of control over his environment.
Also whenever your bf leaves (house or for a trip) he can let your son know and let him know when he plans to see him again. Does he talk to your son on the phone? The point is to keep in contact as a way of reassurance.
I have an 18 yo son who lives with his mother. His mother grew up with an alcoholic mother in a chaotic environment and having control is very important to her and hence has more controlling behaviors that I am use to.
My theory with my son is that his way of seizing control from his controlling mother is to be passive-agressive through his grades. He got into the honor society in Junior year at high school. Right after that his grades took a nose dive and his mother went nuts. She was panicking right up to his graduation this June. This did not seem to faze him and in fact he was more recalcitrant. Anyway, that was my theory on why he is like the way he is. Of course all his good behavior is because of ME lol!
Mark
I think he just needs something to focus on - a hobby, sport or activity that requires his attention to build self esteem. It seems to me that just sitting idle encourages boredom which leads to his acting out. If I was you I would try to find a lot of stuff for him to do around the house and outside the home and keep him busy and reward him MORE for good behavior.
For example, when you were collecting rocks, instead of being made to sit quiet, he should have been carrying, finding or sorting some of them. Or even keeping a list on paper of how many you are finding? I am a big advocate of letting them help in some way - even if they are not really helping, they THINK they are helping!!
And maybe before bedtime you all can go for a walk, have a picnic in the park and play ball with him or do something to get him more active/busy? Then he is exhausted and falls into bed? I know swimming is GREAT this time of year - DS loves to swim and play.
I always believe in a positive and more productive approach to keep busy and build self esteem. Sounds like he has a lot of good energy waiting to be put to use!!
At any rate, here are my suggestions:
1) STOP trying to figure out punishments that fit the crime. It appears that you're trying to live by some golden rules of "parenting."
2) Sit down with your son and get to know him and understand him. Obviously he's trying to communicate something but doesn't know how. So, instead he acts out to get your attention. Negative attention is better than no attention.
3) Ask him how he feels about the BF and why (i.e, does he like the BF, what are his dislikes about the BF,does he like/not like the BF living there, has the BF every interacted with him inappropriately, etc.). It appears that you and your son have two perceptions about life with the BF. It's fabulous in your eyes, and in your son's, well complete opposite of yours.
4) More praises to your son and less praises to the BF. You started off talking negatively about your son and consistently praised and raved about how fabulous your BF throughout your message.
5) And like the last member stated, get involved in your son's life. Enroll him some type of activity that will allow the both of you to interact together. You never mentioned how the two of you ever interact other than when you're handing out punishments. Take him to the zoo, the park, some place that you two can interact and laugh together.
6) HUG and KISS your son.
7) Tell him you love him. When was the last time you actually held him and told him you love him ...
8) Laugh and play together.
I think you get the point. I hope I'm not being too rough or harsh.
p.s. (**** SO Now he's trying to leverage a perfectly wonderful relationship apart for whatever reason.) WHAT IS THIS ALL ABOUT!!!!!!!!!!! I'm really having a hard time with this statement.
Wow you ARE positive!
I loved the idea of counting rocks, he would have totally been into that...
He's very active and fit. We have no TV in the house, so he's out running around instead of playing video games and watching cartoons. It is quite possible however, with the h eatand my chores that his exercise regimine is quite erratic and to a very strong fit kid, that could make a HUGE difference. Maybe I should get a treadmill for rainy days...
I had such a visceral reaction to the danger he was in, perhaps I am blowing the actual act out of proportion... I will ask the counselor about this.
I did talk to my BF, and mentioned the suggestion that the son was anxious about his absence and maybe seeking some extra emotional reaction from the bf upon his return. That seemed to make sense to him, too. He said that he will clarify his role with my son and be consistent. He has been consistent, but his exact role isn't really defined. We will work on that in a way that the bf is comfortable and communicate it in a clear way to my son.
So I feel better about things. Thanks a lot Mark and cl-West,
Ubers
Never easy, is it?
From reading your past posts, it seems that you are sane, loving mom. You seem, to me, to be handling this fairly well.
The one thing i can say, working for years with behaviorally disordered kids, that i learned - was POSITIVE reinforcement works MUCH better long term, than negative.
eg: Instead of getting punished do often for "bad" behavior, how about getting rewarded for GOOD behavior. You can find simple behavior charts on line. eg:
I'm not saying that she doesn't know her son or doesn't love him.
All I'm suggesting is that she allow her son to respectfully express his feelings about the BF ... whether it be negative or positive expressions. At least she will know where he stands on the situation. Then it's up to her to determine how to move forward depending on what has been communicated.
Sometimes we get so wrapped up in the moment/situation that we forget to give our kids hugs/kisses. I know when I'm going through the storm with my kids, I don't show my love for them because I'm caught up with trying to make them see the point I'm making. I have to check myself. I'll tell my son that I love him and give him a tight hug.
Sometimes we just need to hear the words "I love you." As women, we're constantly trying to get our mates to say those simple words to us although we know they do. And kids are no different ...
We all need wake up calls from time to time to improve our situations.
A couple things.
I say "I love you" to my son about 15 times each day, and each time is accompanied by a big hig, and a look in the eyes with a smile. I neglected to load on the praise to my son because lately he has been overwhelming with troubles; the post was about his troubles. Not every post on these for is a perfectly proportional microcosm of our lives... We vent here! I praised the BF heavily to give the impression that he is a positive influence in our household. He does not live with us. I guess I left it to be assumed that I love my son more than anything else in the world and would die for him. However, I do not believe that raising a son to be a healthy and happy man necessarily entails being single. I love my bf and I am proud of our fine relationship. I am proud of all my son's wonderful traits, but thos at present, are not troubling me. What troubles me is that he isn't "letting his inner good boy shine" as I say to him.
This summer I have spent 24/7 with my son with no TV. This enables plenty of quality time. Together daily we do chores, play cards, practice music, walk dogs, read together, make up stories, do crafts. We have a lot of together-time.
This summer he played little league, he also is emrolled in the Big Brother program to get some quality male attention special to him. He meets his bif brother weekly and they go to the pool or go hiking.
He adores my boyfriend. He can't wait to see the man at supper time. He talks about the man to his friends about how awsome he thinks he is. They spend some quality time together hiking, making art, and bicyling. There is no animosity wither way.When my bf arrives, my son bounds up to greet him.
About positive reinforecment. My son earns credits towards movies, trips, time on the beach, new toys and activities that "treats" by being good or extra cooperative. We generally have a very peacful loving environment here with open communication and a lot of productive fun, which is why this sudden turn is so upsetting me. I know how to give praise. I know how to love him, my problem IS with discipline. Only the soft warm fuzzies hasn't been enough lately. He has been a different child it seems. I don't know what to do, this is why I posted.
the remark about my BF was an emotional response, yes, but as many single mothers here know, sometimes trouble with children trickles into stresses in relationships. My son IS very manipulative and I can sense when he is moving in a direction trying to contol something. That's what that was about...
What I have done is, yes, come up with a structured discipline program so that I will have a ready response for any really bad acting out. I of course speak to him, trying to get at the underlying issue. He's manipulative, and so that's not always easy, but we work towards it. I have also as cl-west suggested, came up with a list of daily activities and chores for which he is supposed to take responsibility. Some are very chore like while otehrs involve fun with family and friends. I liked the idea of filling his time to keep him feeling active and happy.
And to rlch,
It's good to see you on the board. I have miss your posts. Thanks for sticking up for me. :)
Ubers
Edited 8/11/2007 5:45 pm ET by ubersilly
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