Maybe controversial question BUT (m)

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Maybe controversial question BUT (m)
34
Thu, 08-19-2004 - 8:45pm
it has to do with living together.

When I was younger, I was all about living together to see if things "clicked" but now that I am older/more experienced I really don't see that as being anything to experiment with. Especially with a child. Now I realize I might be upsetting some people but I don't think it is the right way to go.

My view now of marriage - like I was telling my mother today should be based on the fact that you both love and RESPECT each other and you believe that you can "stand" the person forever. I know that sounds unromantic but I don't mean it so. I guess I am saying that you realize the persons faults and can accept them and you are comfortable that person can respect your views and goals in life and love who you are. I really REALLY feel that if you are going to live together you have made that decision and are going to stick with it.

Jack asked me today why people get divorced. A kind of 3rd grade question that does not have a simple answer but am I the only one who thinks if two people get in a relationship possessing what I mentioned above and the desire to make a FAMILY (even when it is only 2 adults) that divorce wouldn't happen so much. I did tell him that I felt many divorces were the cause of one person in the marriage most often than not. But who knows.

Maybe I am off on this but living together without feeling marriage is the next step which you are clearly going to make unless some horrible inconsistancy in expectations occurrs, is just not the way to go.

Any takers on this? I think that time spent communicating to each other what you want is better spent apart and living together is as serious as marriage and when child are involved is very important.

One more point I want to make on this is that in the beginning of a relationship it has momentum...you can just go along with the FLOW which can go all the way to getting married and even having a child. But until that momentum stops and the relationship becomes a choice, it isn't reality based. Maybe that is the BIG issue.

I would love to hear opinions on this. Go ahead and flame me but I will say that I have had the view of living together and changed my mind for very good reasons and in this case I don't believe anyone can enlighten me to change my mind.

Laura

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iVillage Member
Registered: 05-25-2004
Thu, 08-19-2004 - 9:03pm
I totally agree with you - I would never live with someone before marriage.

Now that I have been married for 10 years and then divorced I have a very good idea of what it takes to make it work. I think you must respect each other's minds and you must really think you can live with that person the rest of your life. You both also have to work on building compatibility and spending time together on a regular basis regardless of careers and children. I think you have to have fun together and be able to communicate in a win-win manner.

I did live with a few boyfriends when I was in my 20's - but I would never do that now and especially not since I have a child.

Bravo to you!!

Avatar for comountainsprite
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 08-19-2004 - 9:37pm
I would never try to enlighten anyone, I think it's a really personal decision. I don't believe in people living together just out of convenience or just to try it out without considering the consequences, particularly when children are involved. But I also don't believe in getting married for any reason other than that you love each other and it's important for you personally to have that marriage bond between you. I think a lot, I mean a ton of people get married for entirely the wrong reasons---other people (often family) thought they should, they'd been dating a long time and it was sort of expected, they got pregnant, etc. And I think just like people live together without thinking it through, I think a lot of people get married and take that decision too lightly.

I also think it's a huge mistake to move in together with the expectation that you'll get married someday if that isn't already in the works. I've seen a lot of those situations where someone's heartbroken, living with their SO wondering if they're ever going to get married.

But, as I've said many times. We didn't ever, I mean ever plan to get married. We'd both been married and both intended to live together permanently but had a really bad view of marriage as an institution. And we didn't feel that was right for us--well, in fact we both thought that generally marriage was a bad idea for most people. That of course came from some bad experiences and having too many close friends making really bad decisions and ending up really miserable. We changed our minds because of the way we felt about each other but I know couples that have lived together for the last 20 years that just didn't want to get married. And I have to assume that was what is right for them, even though we made the choice to go the other way. (Of course, I live in a common law state--those wild Westerners, ya know ;), so basically if we'd decided to split up we would have had to get divorced even if we never got married.

As for the question about divorce, it's way too complex to ever tackle, but one of the things that we agreed on before we tied the knot is that divorce is not an option. I don't think many people think of it that way anymore.

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-02-2003
Thu, 08-19-2004 - 11:27pm
Laura,

My intent is not to "flame" you as you say, but a few months ago, you were posting on here that you were looking at houses with Jack and hoping to move in together. Is that not contradictory to what you just posted? Or are you saying you have had a change of heart since then? I mean, at that point, Jack wasn't even able to tell you that you are what he wanted, let alone consider marriage...

Anyway, I'm not against living together, and I'm not against getting married first. It's an individual choice based on someone's own circumstances, feelings, beliefs and values. Either way, there are no guarantees.

As for me personally, I live with my SO and my daughter and his sons. We plan to marry, but we have a few things to iron out first. I know what I need, what I want and what I value, and what is right for me at this given time, and, like you, no one's opinion is going to sway me either.

JMHO

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Thu, 08-19-2004 - 11:47pm
I can agree with that - the point is when you did move in together it was to be a perminent thing and you discussed it - that the two of you were firmly committed if not with a piece of paper. I just get upset with those that think living together is like "trial" marriage.

L

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Fri, 08-20-2004 - 12:04am
Just to remind you I did say that if we were going to move in together then we both agreed we would have to be ready to get engaged and be married. Neither of us took the possiblity lightly. For me the excitement was the fact that he was even thinking of it because we both understand that means a long term commitment.

I don't know about the "no guarentees" part. Just like I am a mother - I can promise that I will always be a mother to my child, I will always be a daughter to my parents, a sister and a friend to certain individuals. Sometimes bad feelings and circumstances can hinder those relationships for a time but I never give up on them and in time these things always come around because they are my family. Family is sacred. And when I get married again IF I do this is the view I will most undoubtingly hold. I do understand that there are betrayals - I also know that it only takes one person to ruin a marriage. My first ruined it with drinking and infidelity. I waited a year to file for divorce after he left. One year and a baby with another woman because I believed in my commitment. The second was just bad - a reflection of my own low self-esteem at the time. But I learned such a wealth of knowledge there and gained a beautiful daughter. But he was a liar, a thief and a drug addict. ALL good reasons for a marriage to end. I could not be with someone who could possibly hurt me or my child. But even then I gave him every chance to redeem himself. I never gave up until all hope was completely gone.

I am not trying to say I am without fault but I am saying that if more people realized that love is a choice - that their actions are a choice and not so based on the chances of fate - we might have a much better world and a lot less woman on this board LOL.

Of course each person can decide for themselves what to do but as you said and we all agree on this point - without understanding the intent on being together in such a manner people can get hurt and that includes children. People leave - sometimes because an act of God, and children do feel loss and this is not avoidable. But I really believe that people enter in to these things too lightly without thinking so often and my point is without a clear intention on what the reason of a person being there is - things will not go well or end well. And they will most definitely end.

I used to have a financial clause and I suppose in dire need I would still do that (live with a man if financially I would be on the street otherwise) but you can BET that I would work my tail off to get a new place regardless of a romantic attachment unless a ring was involved.

Maybe your situation is different but I can say that going back to my past - even though I had no children - I would not live with a man again romantically without that commitment.

Laura

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Fri, 08-20-2004 - 11:37am
My opinion is this:

Living together might not be the way to go FOR YOU.

I didn't live with my ex-husband before we married. I didn't believe in it. In fact, I only spent the night with him a handfull of times. I was in for a RUDE awakening. He did a complete 180 when we got married and began living together. Due to that - I vowed NEVER AGAIN would I marry someone without living with them first. And I meant that.

I lived with TT. NOT without hesitation. NOT without us agreeing "if we are going to live together, we agree that we are on the path to marriage, and therefore, we will do absolutely everything possible to get our relationship started on the right foot." For us, that meant premarital counseling and step-parenting classes/support group.

And I don't agree that relationships just "go with the flow" following the momentum. Every single moment of a relationship is a choice. I had to choose in the very beginning whether or not I wanted to be exclusive. TT had to choose which relationship he valued more. We had to choose how we would handle ourselves and our relationship in regards to all of our children. EVERYTHING was a choice. On a daily basis. Momentum stopping? If the momentum stops - life must have stopped.

Just like you had your mind changed for what you viewed as "good reasons" - so did I. I won't change your mind, and I can guarantee you no one will change mine.

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-25-2004
Fri, 08-20-2004 - 11:47am
Sunshine,

You do bring up interesting points and guidelines. What do you mean by your exhusband did a 180 - do you mind telling us that - the differences you saw because you lived with him?

Thanks for sharing!
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Fri, 08-20-2004 - 11:48am
Relationships certainly have a momemtum - the "honeymoon" phase - the time when you haven't had a major decision to make - major crisis to overcome. You haven't had to face the reality that you are two different people and there will be conflict. I can say with 100% certainty that my first DH and I went with the flow....we loved each other of course. It was the reality of marriage - of forever - when all of a sudden you aren't looking forward to the "next date""next call" "engagement""marriage""children"....all these milestones. It is the day you wake up and go "this is the rest of my life" that is what I am talking about.

As far as whether or not people should - obviously when you did you did so know ing that marriage was the next step. It was serious choice - not a "we'll see what happens" BUT just because you first hubby did a 180 doesn't mean he wouldn't have regardless of the living together. I lived with my first husband for a year and a half before we got married. He did a 180 after we were married too. The MOMENTUM had changed/slowed. The build up was gone. The roles changed (from girlfriend he lived with to wife which to a man is a difference)

My point is that even after living together when a couple marries one should be prepared for a change - although with premarital counseling and open communication that can hopefully be avoided. I also feel peopl who have been married may have an upper hand at not having that occur negatively. But one never knows.

My first husband said to me one day when I said "You weren't like this before - what happened" he told me " you can't expect me to keep that up forever!"

Keep what up? The best behavior? He managed to for 2 years..... how long can someone do that?

L

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Fri, 08-20-2004 - 11:56am
THen you might get upset with me. But I'm a grown woman, and I can handle it, so go ahead. :)

I don't see living together as trial marriage, exactly. I see living together as trial LIVING TOGETHER! I am a firm believer that you don't know someone till you live with and deal with them on a daily basis.

If Trav and I stick this out I think we expect to live together for awhile before we feel we know each other well enough to marry.

Marriage, on the other hand, is a totally separate thing. It's a legal contract that obliges two parties to be financially responsible to each other in some areas. I know there can be a spiritual component, but the paperwork is for the government and keeps track of responsibilities.

If I was combining my life with someone and had young children it would be different. I did NOT do that, I didn't even date much with young children. I don't expect Trav to be financially responsible for my kids, their DAD hasn't even done that very much. I have raised them and done the best I can. I don't expect him to be their dad, a mentor and friend...yes. But my kids will be grown in a few years and on their own, so my major concern is whether Trav and I would be good together on a day in, day out basis. And, considering the way he travels for his job, it might take a few years for me to have enough information to decide on that.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Fri, 08-20-2004 - 12:02pm
I agree with you Min.

My exh was one who didn't show himself before marriage either, and I KNOW now that he could not have lived with someone without showing himself. He can be good for a couple of weeks and then BLOWS UP!

He's on marriage #3 and has done it by blowing up when he's NOT with the woman he's dating...usually he blows up at our kids.

I am also smarter now, and would see things on a daily basis that I might not have noticed then.

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